Silencing of Traditional Bishops by Pope Francis

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twf said:
while I enjoy many of his posts, there’s sometimes a tin foil hat conspiracy feel to that blog.
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Yeah, that’s why I pretty much quit following it. Used to read it every day.
 
angel12 said:
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twf:
while I enjoy many of his posts, there’s sometimes a tin foil hat conspiracy feel to that blog.
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Yeah, that’s why I pretty much quit following it. Used to read it every day.
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I also used to read it everyday. Especially during Pope Benedict’s pontificate and for the first few years of Pope Francis’.

Father Z has over the last year or so become more strident in his opposition/critique of Pope Francis. He also shows more of a willingness to believe fringe conspiracy theories about Pope Francis whereas he used to regularly shoot down similar fringe ideas about Pope Benedict.

I’m a very moderate kind of person. He’s a bit too strident for me these days.
 
There is a passage in the Bible where St.Paul takes issue with St. Peter over an inconsistency
in his administration of authority. St. Peter took to heart what Paul said and reacted appropriately. IMHO this must set the precedent for the exercise of authority at the top level in the church
 
I agree with what you have said here (St. Paul correcting St. Peter), but I don’t think that relates to the conspiracy theories Fr. Z seems to give space to on his blog.
 
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If a solid Churchman like Cdnl.Burke doesn’t even merit a reply , then it is beginning to look like traditionalists are being silenced. It also sunds like the prophecy of Our Lady at Akita when she spoke about Cardinals agains cardinals and Bishops against bishops
 
But, the idea that’s Cardinal Burke is being “silenced” is absurd on its face. He is making the rounds doing speaking engagement all over the country and in Europe.

The fact that bishops aren’t going to see him speak does not set off any alarm bells for me. For one, bishops are extremely busy. Additionally, unless my Bishop was actually hosting the conference or event I would be shocked to see him sitting in the crowd. It doesn’t really matter who it is.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
The fact that bishops aren’t going to see him speak does not set off any alarm bells for me.
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I went listen to Cdl Burke speak a year or so ago. He was very gracious and orthodox. What has he said that merits this restriction?

How is it that Fr. James Martin is not only not silenced, but invited to present his opinions, which are at best confusing for Catholics?
 
He had an important position in the Curia, wheras he is now 'giving talks " and just being kept busy. Arbp. Vigano seems to have disappeared ( in relation to the revelations he made about Pope Francis ) in the McCarrick case
 
So, in other words, all we have is speculation?

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they subsist on rash judgement, calumny, and detraction. It’s spiritually dangerous to traffic in conspiracy theory even if you aren’t the one actually commiting rash judgement, calumny, and detraction.

Why can’t we just acknowledge and accept that Pope Francis and Cardinal Burke have differing views on various issues without going headlong into assuming the worst motive on the part of either man?
 
For the sake of not causing scandal to the universal Church a serious question posed by four senior Churchmen should be given a unambiguous and respectful reply . Don't you think ?
 
Maybe if those four Churchmen were respectful to the Holy Father and did not air their “dirty laundry” for all to see, the Holy Father may have been more accommodating.

I, as a manager, find it appalling that any subordinate would speak so publically against their boss and then not expect any consequences.
 
twf said:
Pope Francis seems to have very little patience for the “conservative” wing of the Church… but that’s his prerogative.
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Could it be the Holy Father’s background and coming from Argentina that makes him weary of and short tempered with the right wing/conservative/traditionalist elements within the Church? The Holy Father has seen first hand where hard right wing ideology leads… And clearly he sees those who support it as opponents.

I stand with the Holy Father, regardless. I am convinced that Pope Francis is a living Saint. When he speaks I can literally feel St. Peter, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus speaking through him simultaneously.

(And for what it’s worth - when I read the writings of St. Pope Pius X, or St. Pope John XXIII, or listen to or read the words of St. Pope Paul VI or St. Pope John Paul the Great, or Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, I can also sense the words of St. Peter, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost there as well.)
 
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Carmel said:
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For  the  sake  of  not  causing  scandal  to  the  universal Church    a  serious  question   posed  by  four  senior    Churchmen   should  be  given  a   unambiguous    and  respectful  reply     .       Don't  you  think ?
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Truly, it is not up to me. I am not privy to all the information and inner workings of the Curia. I am not a theologian or any kind of religious leader.

When I am not a aware of the facts of the matter and when there is more than one plausible explanation, I am bound to assume the most charitable explanation. The most charitable explanation is that the Holy Father had good reason not to respond publically. For all I know, there was some sort of intra-curial or informal private response.
 
CilladeRoma said:
Maybe if those four Churchmen were respectful to the Holy Father and did not air their “dirty laundry” for all to see, the Holy Father may have been more accommodating.
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To be fair to Burke and company, they did first go to the Holy Father in private with their questions. It is only after it became clear that their questions would not be answered that they made them public.

I think it’s up for debate whether or not they should have gone public even then. But it seems to me that they tried to go about it in the best way possible.
 
Hmmmm there ae many stories in the Bible about how the pharisees challenged the Lord about His words and actions. In true humility the Lord answered all of their objections as well as their false accusations. AS regards bosses and their underlings Jesus also said " the servant is not greater than the Master "
 
Carmel said:
and the rest…
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If you want me to respond to this, you are going to have to flesh it out some more.

I’m also happy to leave the converstation as it stands. I feel like I have adequately explained my position. Of course, you are welcome to disagree.
 
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Have you read Arbp Vigano’s recent 3rd letter on the McCarrick abuse scandals ?
 
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