Simony

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mikaele
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mikaele

Guest
If a clergymen bought a mansion, or an expensive car by selling Sacraments, would the Church have to get rid of these possessions after he died?
 
If the cleric bought them himself how would they be possessions of the Church?
 
I thought things in the presbytery automatically went to the Church after the priest left. What would happen to his possessions after he died if he didn’t give them to anybody in his will?
 
Mikaele said:
I thought things in the presbytery automatically went to the Church after the priest left. What would happen to his possessions after he died if he didn’t give them to anybody in his will?
Click to expand...
Diocesan priests are allowed to own private property – and their private property is their own, not the Churches.
 
But he doesn’t own the presbytery, does he? what if he upgraded it to a mansion? I’m just interested. Not trying to pick a fight or anything.
 
Um, you said by “selling sacraments.” I don’t care if he bought a toy car or a doll house, let alone a ‘new car’ or ‘mansion’; priests do NOT sell sacraments.

If the Church owns property like a rectory, then the priest lives there. He doesn’t ‘upgrade’. The diocese, of course, can. Suppose the priest comes into the parish but the parish is consolidating and decides to tear down the rectory and build a bigger one. That’s fine; the diocese can do that. If he is a diocesean priest and he has money of his own (son of a rich family) he can buy his own property and it belongs to him. So if the church owns a rectory but the priest buys a mansion, the rectory stays the property of the church but the mansion, if the priest bought it with his own money, goes to whomever the priest chooses.
 
Mikaele said:
But he doesn’t own the presbytery, does he? what if he upgraded it to a mansion? I’m just interested. Not trying to pick a fight or anything.
Click to expand...
If a priest were to buy a piece of real estate in his own name, that real estate is the priest’s. The only way the parish would acquire is if the priest willed it on his death.

If the priest bought said real estate in the name of the parish, it is not the priest’s property.

If the priest made capitol improvements on a property already owned by the parish, it would be no different than if a renter made such improvements on their apartment – ownership remains with the parish.
 
Can he make changes to his rectory with his own money? if he got that money via simony (which does happen,) and made huge changes to his rectory, would that house be the full property of the Church after he died?
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Um, you said by “selling sacraments.” I don’t care if he bought a toy car or a doll house, let alone a ‘new car’ or ‘mansion’; priests do NOT sell sacraments.
Click to expand...
If a priest dares to commit simony, there are remedies in canon law. If a priest is uses fraud to acquire money or goods (e.g., embezzlement), there are remedies in civil law (and canon law I would presume).
 
Mikaele said:
Can he make changes to his rectory with his own money? if he got that money via simony (which does happen,) and made huge changes to his rectory, would that house be the full property of the Church after he died?
Click to expand...
If a renter made capitol improvements to an apartment they are renting, do they suddenly own the apartment? Same basic situation.

How the money is acquired is irrelevant (though simony is a grave canonical offense).
 
Mikaele said:
Can he make changes to his rectory with his own money? if he got that money via simony (which does happen,) and made huge changes to his rectory, would that house be the full property of the Church after he died?
Click to expand...
That’s an issue of property law, not Church teaching. The answer will depend on the property law applicable to the locality where the building is located. In the United States, the answer to that question would generally be yes.
 
Have to admit I’m a wee bit curious as to why you brought up the ‘selling sacraments’. If you have knowledge that a priest is selling sacraments your obligation is to tell your bishop ASAP, otherwise you are culpable of sin yourself in knowing and not telling.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Have to admit I’m a wee bit curious as to why you brought up the ‘selling sacraments’. If you have knowledge that a priest is selling sacraments your obligation is to tell your bishop ASAP, otherwise you are culpable of sin yourself in knowing and not telling.
Click to expand...
Can. 1380 A person who celebrates or receives a sacrament through simony is to be punished with an interdict or suspension.
 
If a priest, deacon or the Pope, bought me a mansion by selling sacraments or by some other sin, would I have to refuse it?
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Have to admit I’m a wee bit curious as to why you brought up the ‘selling sacraments’. If you have knowledge that a priest is selling sacraments your obligation is to tell your bishop ASAP, otherwise you are culpable of sin yourself in knowing and not telling.
Click to expand...
Also know that the parish charging a fee for certain sacraments is not simony.
 
Well, if a priest bought me a mansion via simony, would I be obliged to refuse his gift?
 
Mikaele said:
If a priest, deacon or the Pope, bought me a mansion by selling sacraments or by some other sin, would I have to refuse it?
Click to expand...
Do you know that the money was garnered by simony?

Morally, I would say that accepting any gift that you know was acquired with money gained illicitly is wrong.
 
I’m speaking theoretically. I never said I know of a priest right at this moment committing simony. I should have been more clear, I only know that it happens in rare cases these days in some places in Africa. (So I have been told.)

But theoretically… if a priest bought me a Ferrari via simony, and I had full knowledge that his money for the car came via simony, would I be obliged to refuse it? (and I know I’m supposed to inform the bishop etc.)

Is it a sin for me to own something that was bought with ‘dirty’ money? (ie Money gained via simony)
 
Mikaele said:
I’m speaking theoretically. I never said I know of a priest right at this moment committing simony. I should have been more clear, I only know that it happens in rare cases these days in some places in Africa. (So I have been told.)

But theoretically… if a priest bought me a Ferrari via simony, and I had full knowledge that his money for the car came via simony, would I be obliged to refuse it? (and I know I’m supposed to inform the bishop etc.)

Is it a sin for me to own something that was bought with ‘dirty’ money? (ie Money gained via simony)
Click to expand...
As I said just above, accepting any gift that you know was acquired with money gained illicitly is morally wrong.
 
Mikaele said:
I’m speaking theoretically. I never said I know of a priest right at this moment committing simony. I should have been more clear, I only know that it happens in rare cases these days in some places in Africa. (So I have been told.)

But theoretically… if a priest bought me a Ferrari via simony, and I had full knowledge that his money for the car came via simony, would I be obliged to refuse it? (and I know I’m supposed to inform the bishop etc.)

Is it a sin for me to own something that was bought with ‘dirty’ money? (ie Money gained via simony)
Click to expand...
What do you understand simony to be?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top