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beafedor
Guest
Is being aware of a particular Church teaching and refusing to follow it a sin against the Holy Spirit? (Matthew 12:31-32)
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Ron_Conte
Guest
Refusing to believe an infallible teaching is heresy.
Refusing to believe a non-infallible teaching is generally doctrinal error, not heresy.
Sinning by not following a teaching that you believe in is not heresy or doctrinal error, but it is whatever the particular sin might be.
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is final impenitance, the refusal, through the last moment of life, to repent from actual mortal sin.
All sins are offenses against all three Persons of the Trinity.
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Julian0404
Guest
The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Blessed Trinity. To committ the only unforgiveable sin, and sin against the Holy Spirit is very hard to declare. It is the full congnitive rejection of God and all of His Love, Mercy, Teaching, Forgiveness etc. A complete and total rejection of God that is held to the moment of your judgement. And therein lies the difficulty because even at the moment of death, Jesus is offering forgiveness, and we cannot apply our “human judgement” in place of God’s unfathomable forgiveness.
People will go through their lives at odds with various dogma’s and teaching of the faith, and if they do so in mortal sin, e.g. support the practice of abortion, without any acknowledgement or request for forgiveness, then they have placed their salvation in great peril, but only at God’s word, and not our judgement. ( eg, Sen Ted Kennedy, he met with his priest before he died. We cannot declare the outcome of Sen Ted Kennedy)
The only example that I can provide is a story my father relayed from his WWII experience. He came upon an american soldier terribly wounded, and with moments to live. A priest was “attempting” to baptize him and minister to him. However, he was loudly proclaiming, “I didn’t need you when I was living, I don’t need now”. On the surface, that appears to be a very real rejection of the Holy Spirit, but what happened at the moment of his death, we cannot know.
People will go through their lives at odds with various dogma’s and teaching of the faith, and if they do so in mortal sin, e.g. support the practice of abortion, without any acknowledgement or request for forgiveness, then they have placed their salvation in great peril, but only at God’s word, and not our judgement. ( eg, Sen Ted Kennedy, he met with his priest before he died. We cannot declare the outcome of Sen Ted Kennedy)
The only example that I can provide is a story my father relayed from his WWII experience. He came upon an american soldier terribly wounded, and with moments to live. A priest was “attempting” to baptize him and minister to him. However, he was loudly proclaiming, “I didn’t need you when I was living, I don’t need now”. On the surface, that appears to be a very real rejection of the Holy Spirit, but what happened at the moment of his death, we cannot know.
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beafedor
Guest
This is more complicated than what I thought. Thank you for your posts. I was thinking about Catholics who call themselves “pro-choice”, having full knowledge of Church Teaching and refusing to see that abortion is murder and hurts women no matter how many people try to show them the reality of legal child killing (as I and others are trying to do on some threads on this forum). I’m praying for them and I’m worried about their souls.
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thistle
Guest
If a Catholic openly declares they are pro-choice then they are rejecting a Church teaching which is heresy and means not only are they are committing a grave sin but they are automatically excommunicated.
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Frank_Mitchell
Guest
The Bible gives an example of a couple who sinned against the Holy Spirit and so were not forgiven, vis:
“‘Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.” When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?” “Yes,” she said, “that is the price.” Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.” At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.’” (Acts 5: 1-10 NIV)
So, Peter, who had lied three times when he denied Jesus, still had the authority to comdemn Ananis and Sapphira…… for lying!!!
Peter’s lies were forgivable but the lies told by Ananias and Sapphira were not forgiven. They were “lies against the Holy Spirit”.
What was the difference between them?
Here it is: Ananias and Sapphira belonged to the Earth, so much so that they couldn’t bear to part with it entirely. They buried part of what they had received for their land. On the other hand, when Jesus said to Peter “follow me!” Peter, together with his brother Andrew, walked away from his fishing nets and his livelihood, because Peter belongs to God and not to the Earth. But Ananias and Sapphira belonged to the Earth. You see, Jesus had said of His disciples, including Peter “They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.” (John 17: 16 NIV)
Those who belong to Jesus can fully obey the commandments “love God” and “love thy neighbour”.
Those who belong to the world love the things of this world more than they love God or their neighbour. I believe that is the sin against the Holy Spirit.
The interesting thing about this is that no common person can order himself/herself to love anyone. No man can say to himself “in five minutes I’m going to start loving God and Mr. Smith and Miss Jones like crazy!” and then actually do it….
The only one who can order us to love is He who ordered the blind to see and the lame to walk and the dead to resuscitate. So we’re all in His hands.
“‘Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.” When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?” “Yes,” she said, “that is the price.” Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.” At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.’” (Acts 5: 1-10 NIV)
So, Peter, who had lied three times when he denied Jesus, still had the authority to comdemn Ananis and Sapphira…… for lying!!!
Peter’s lies were forgivable but the lies told by Ananias and Sapphira were not forgiven. They were “lies against the Holy Spirit”.
What was the difference between them?
Here it is: Ananias and Sapphira belonged to the Earth, so much so that they couldn’t bear to part with it entirely. They buried part of what they had received for their land. On the other hand, when Jesus said to Peter “follow me!” Peter, together with his brother Andrew, walked away from his fishing nets and his livelihood, because Peter belongs to God and not to the Earth. But Ananias and Sapphira belonged to the Earth. You see, Jesus had said of His disciples, including Peter “They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.” (John 17: 16 NIV)
Those who belong to Jesus can fully obey the commandments “love God” and “love thy neighbour”.
Those who belong to the world love the things of this world more than they love God or their neighbour. I believe that is the sin against the Holy Spirit.
The interesting thing about this is that no common person can order himself/herself to love anyone. No man can say to himself “in five minutes I’m going to start loving God and Mr. Smith and Miss Jones like crazy!” and then actually do it….
The only one who can order us to love is He who ordered the blind to see and the lame to walk and the dead to resuscitate. So we’re all in His hands.
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TheRiver
Guest
I’m not pro-choice, but I think your statement is highly misinformed, or vague at the very least.
What if they are not as well educated about abortion as another Catholic, do they become automatically un excommunicated when they become more educated or do they need to confess their ignorance in the confessional?
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beafedor
Guest
Hi, I haven’t followed up with the thread lately mainly because this website makes me feel dizzy and nauseous (the design, not the contents).
Thanks to your answers, I can see now the difference between being in a state of mortal sin (for example supporting abortion rights) and sinning against the Holy Spirit.
In the first case, the sinner has broken his/her relationship with God by willingly condoning an intrinsic evil. The good news is that he or she can use their free will to repent and seek reconciliation in the Sacrament of Penance. Then by God’s grace, the relationship is restored. There are many Catholics in that situation and it’s our duty to explain this to them and to encourage them to seek reconciliation.
A person who would support abortion and refuse to repent even at the hour of death, would reject God’s grace and therefore would commit a sin against the Holy Spirit. Even though we know what they believed in their life, we don’t know what another person is thinking at the hour of death so we can’t presume that they died rejecting God’s grace or accepting it. All we can do is hope and pray for the best.
Do I get this right? I started this thread mainly to understand and to encourage our “pro-choice” brothers and sisters to embrace their Catholic faith.
Thanks to your answers, I can see now the difference between being in a state of mortal sin (for example supporting abortion rights) and sinning against the Holy Spirit.
In the first case, the sinner has broken his/her relationship with God by willingly condoning an intrinsic evil. The good news is that he or she can use their free will to repent and seek reconciliation in the Sacrament of Penance. Then by God’s grace, the relationship is restored. There are many Catholics in that situation and it’s our duty to explain this to them and to encourage them to seek reconciliation.
A person who would support abortion and refuse to repent even at the hour of death, would reject God’s grace and therefore would commit a sin against the Holy Spirit. Even though we know what they believed in their life, we don’t know what another person is thinking at the hour of death so we can’t presume that they died rejecting God’s grace or accepting it. All we can do is hope and pray for the best.
Do I get this right? I started this thread mainly to understand and to encourage our “pro-choice” brothers and sisters to embrace their Catholic faith.
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