Sin and why Jesus had to die on the cross?!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Future_Prodigy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Future_Prodigy

Guest
I have been giving some thought to the matter and I have read the catechism a couple times, on the section about sin starting at CC 1846. I am left with more questions then answers. I don’t understand what exactly sin is and why it made it necessary for God to be crucified.

I have been told that Jesus died for 4 reasons according to RC and the Protestants mainly hold to one of the 4 reasons, that being as a substitute for our sinfulness so we can enter heaven justified. What are the other 3 reasons? That one reasons really bothers me, maybe because I have a wrong view of sin but that He would punish us for such little things as masturbating or lustful actions, which hurt ourselves and create a wrongful ordering of desires, but to warrant eternal damnation on stupid sins like that seems unjustified. Mortal sins like murder, etc is one thing but the lesser sins calling for the necessity of the crucifixion seems a strange concept to a new Christian like me. Help me figure this matter out.

When I become a father id be more hurt that my son was doing stupid actions because he is hurting himself not that it somehow is hurting me. I have a hard time with the Christian notion of sin being a offense to God, which is probably because of my looking into Hinduism and Buddhism prior to exploring Christianity which is more geared towards harm to yourself being done by things and not to a higher external Creator.

Basically what is sin and why did God have to come to earth to save us?!

Funny how I have gone through 2 rcia sessions yet don’t even know the basics. The church really has to re-evaluate who is teaching RCIA or the material being taught!
 
Christ himself told Peter and the other apostles several times that it was necessary for him to die for our salvation, and berated Peter when he protested. He told them directly and through analogies and parables. That’s good enough for me, I don’t need a debate.
 
asquared said:
Christ himself told Peter and the other apostles several times that it was necessary for him to die for our salvation, and berated Peter when he protested. He told them directly and through analogies and parables. That’s good enough for me, I don’t need a debate.
Click to expand...
That’s not really a sufficient answer. Sure, for the aged believer it may be good enough that “Jesus said so”, but I teach 2nd grade religious education and they aren’t too keen to simply roll with that answer.

I’m curious why as well. I get asked this question a lot, and I’ve searched for a great, 2nd grade understandable explanation in vain for quite awhile.
 
I congratulate you, your 2nd graders must be very sophisticated to discuss this in terms described by OP.
 
Future_Prodigy said:
I have been giving some thought to the matter and I have read the catechism a couple times, on the section about sin starting at CC 1846. I am left with more questions then answers. I don’t understand what exactly sin is and why it made it necessary for God to be crucified.

I have been told that Jesus died for 4 reasons according to RC and the Protestants mainly hold to one of the 4 reasons, that being as a substitute for our sinfulness so we can enter heaven justified. What are the other 3 reasons? That one reasons really bothers me, maybe because I have a wrong view of sin but that He would punish us for such little things as masturbating or lustful actions, which hurt ourselves and create a wrongful ordering of desires, but to warrant eternal damnation on stupid sins like that seems unjustified. Mortal sins like murder, etc is one thing but the lesser sins calling for the necessity of the crucifixion seems a strange concept to a new Christian like me. Help me figure this matter out.

When I become a father id be more hurt that my son was doing stupid actions because he is hurting himself not that it somehow is hurting me. I have a hard time with the Christian notion of sin being a offense to God, which is probably because of my looking into Hinduism and Buddhism prior to exploring Christianity which is more geared towards harm to yourself being done by things and not to a higher external Creator.

Basically what is sin and why did God have to come to earth to save us?!

Funny how I have gone through 2 rcia sessions yet don’t even know the basics. The church really has to re-evaluate who is teaching RCIA or the material being taught!
Click to expand...
see this thread…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=137654
 
If you look at the Covenant God formed with Israel, you will see the curses that Israel would inherit for failing to live up to the curses. This is detailed in Deuteronomy, chapter 28.

Israel would be exiled, and would die (among other curses). The exile had happened. The only way out of the covenant would be for one of the parties to die. (Think of the marriage covenant between man and woman. Til death do you part.) So, according to the curses, Israel would have to die, because God certainly could not die…

Or could he?

Jesus came, took on our sins, took on our exile, and took on our death. This freed Israel from the Mosaic Covenant and allowed it to form a New Covenant with God.
 
So how did Jesus take on our sins? Notice in Mark when he heals the leper. Do you see where the Leper is able to go throughout the villages praising Jesus, and Jesus has to wander outside the villages, sneaking from town to town because of the crowds?

How did Jesus take on Israels exile? When Jesus was led into the Praetorium, He was brought into a Gentile building, thus He was in exile while He was with Pontius Pilate?

How did Jesus take on our death? Why, on the Cross, of course!
 
Future_Prodigy said:
…maybe because I have a wrong view of sin but that He would punish us for such little things as masturbating or lustful actions, which hurt ourselves and create a wrongful ordering of desires…
When I become a father id be more hurt that my son was doing stupid actions because he is hurting himself not that it somehow is hurting me. I have a hard time with the Christian notion of sin being a offense to God, which is probably because of my looking into Hinduism and Buddhism prior to exploring Christianity which is more geared towards harm to yourself being done by things and not to a higher external Creator.

Basically what is sin and why did God have to come to earth to save us?!

Funny how I have gone through 2 rcia sessions yet don’t even know the basics. The church really has to re-evaluate who is teaching RCIA or the material being taught!
Click to expand...
We are the Body of Christ. When we disrepect ourselves or hurt ourselves we hurt Christ. (See Acts 9:4) Saul, later known as Paul, was persecuting Christains not Christ Himself yet our Lord says differently, “Why are you persecuting me?”

If you study the Old Testament you will see the covenant sacrifices offered for the remission of personal sin. Blood was seen as a sign of life and only the blood of God Himself could offer us eternal life. It would take more than this forum’s capacity to include all of the Old Testament typology but there are many good resources.

One comment on your RCIA program. They are volunteers and most are only as good as the catechesis that they received. I’ve spoken with RCIA facilitators and some are in the dark with the basic tenets of our faith. It’s ashame but true. RCIA is a very good program but it is not taught by theologians (which can be a good thing) so continue to seek your answers as they are out there. But move away from Buddhism and Hinduism unless you wish to remain in a constant circle of confusion. Jesus rose from the dead and many died proclaiming this. Stay with the Truth…God Bless
 
What is sin? It’s an offense against God. It is a turning away from Him. It is choosing something else over Him. God wants us to put Him first in our lives. And why shouldn’t we? He created us, He loves us, and He has provided a way for us to spend everlasting life with Him…if we would only choose to follow Him.

I have never heard that there are “4 reasons” Christ died. I only know of one…that Christ died to save us from our sins.

Sin, an offense against our infinite God, is an infinite offense that can never be made up for by imperfect beings such as ourselves. Nothing we do can repair the damage. An infinite offense requires an infinte reparation. And that reparation is the sacrifice of sinless Jesus, the Perfect Victim. That is why we say he died for us. It is His death and resurrection that provide the graces that come to us through the sacraments and allow us to go to heaven.

Regarding “lesser” sins…they are lesser according to you. But according to the Church (which has been given authority by Jesus to Peter and his successors to bind and loose, i.e. lead the faithful), and the Church’s teachings are what we follow, is that certain sins are mortal. Sorry if you don’t agree with them, but no one said being Catholic was easy.
 
asquared said:
I congratulate you, your 2nd graders must be very sophisticated to discuss this in terms described by OP.
Click to expand...
They’re a lot smarter than most people give them credit for 😉

But on a more serious note, I think you misunderstood me. They are not content with the answer “Jesus died for our sins”. Once you give them that answer, there’s the inevitable “why”. Hence why I stated a desire to see a “second-grade explainable response”. 🙂
 
notworthy- could you elaborate on that some more, and maybe give me a little (name removed by moderator)ut into the notion of sin. I’m really struggling with what sin is these days. I find it strange when we say a little offense lasts for all eternity with God, the punishment of Sin is death, sin is defined as actions against Go… yada yada. THe problem is this makes God into a vendictive SOB who needs to get his way or else. I don’t worship this God on Sundays! I worhip a God of Love who in genesis when the fall occured said what have you done in a loving way like a father who saw his boy get runned over by a truck, even after tellin him not to play on the streets, and hes there holding his lifeless son saysing, “my son what have you done”… not in a angry you didnt follow my rules, look what you have done, now you shall spend etenrity away from me unless you go to confession and return to me.

I dun know i have been very influenced by the whole evangelical notion of sin and i want nothing to do with that. So, this is why i come here for some further clarification.
 
I cant even understand how sin is a offence against God most of the time. Like i said above about the Eastern Religions. Sin, if you can call it that, is viewed as a tool causing suffering because it is a wrong view of the way things should be. It hurts ourselves, our outlook on things, and our relationships. Lets look at lust, i masturbate and lust after another girl. That pollutes my view of an act that should occur in the marraige bed, lowers woman to a form of meat, and in the end i am a slave to my desires through my need to self gratify. No where do i see this as an offence to God other than its against His Rules, which is where my problem lies in the first place.
 
God Loves us, and only asks us to love Him in return. When you love someone completely, you wish to do anything to please them.

When we love God with all our heart, God dwells within our hearts. There is no greater intimacy than this infusion of the Holy Spirit. We call this Sanctifying Grace. It’s what Jesus is speaking of when he says “Eternal Life”. “Those who eat of this bread will have eternal life”. When we receive the Eucharist, we receive God’s Grace within our soul.

OK, clear so far?

When we choose sin over the desire to please God, we are showing that our earthly desires are more important to us than our love for God and our desire to be with Him in eternity. This is what sin is.

When we sin, we are telling God that I want to do this (fill in the blank here) more than I wish to be with You. God gives us what we want. He no longer dwells within our souls.

So Hell is not God’s punishment for us. It is simply God given us what we want. If we wish to live our lives without God, then He allows us to live our lives both here on earth and in eternity without Him.
 
Also, look at it this way.

What is darkness? Darkness is nothing tangible. It’s simply the absence of light, am I correct?

We know from the Scriptures that God is Light. Hell is simply the absence of God.
 
Future_Prodigy said:
I worhip a God of Love who in genesis when the fall occured said what have you done in a loving way like a father who saw his boy get runned over by a truck, even after tellin him not to play on the streets, and hes there holding his lifeless son saysing, “my son what have you done”… not in a angry you didnt follow my rules, look what you have done, now you shall spend etenrity away from me unless you go to confession and return to me.
Click to expand...
Re-examine what you wrote here about God being a loving father. The boy’s actions (disobedience=sin) in the analogy you’ve given has separated him from his father…he can no longer be with his father. In the same sense, when you sin, it does the same thing - it separates you from God.

People may have different degrees in which they see sin, but all in all, sin, especially grave sin, does only one thing - it keeps us away from being with God.
 
I would aggre that certain sins keep us away from God and loving him and our neighbour but I dont see how they can be called eternal slaps in the faces per say, whereby the only remedy is for Christs coming to attone for the punishment that is rightly ours. I just have a hard time imagining a lot of sins offending God. If i caught my son swearing and lsuting after women i would be disappointed and hurt that he is hurting himself and creating a wrong view of reality. Not say unless you confess and return to me you will spend etenrity without me.
 
Future_Prodigy said:
I cant even understand how sin is a offence against God most of the time. Like i said above about the Eastern Religions. Sin, if you can call it that, is viewed as a tool causing suffering because it is a wrong view of the way things should be. It hurts ourselves, our outlook on things, and our relationships. Lets look at lust, i masturbate and lust after another girl. That pollutes my view of an act that should occur in the marraige bed, lowers woman to a form of meat, and in the end i am a slave to my desires through my need to self gratify. No where do i see this as an offence to God other than its against His Rules, which is where my problem lies in the first place.
Click to expand...
That woman that you may be lusting after. Isn’t she a child of God? If you treat something that God created as if it were less than what it is, aren’t you therefore placing your own needs above that of God’s creations? Does it hurt that person? Not if they don’t know about it.

But what happens when you find the perfect woman. The one that can complete you. And because you’ve degraded women to a point where they are nothing more than something to ogle, this woman does not find you as someone she wants to spend the rest of her life with. Did you hurt her? Yes, even though she doesn’t know it. Do you hurt yourself? Yes, because you placed your own needs above those of others.

Think of Mother Teresa. If she had never become the person that God intended her to be, thousands (if not millions) of people would not have been drawn closer to God through her actions - and they never would have known it.

There is no such thing as just hurting yourself when you sin. Any sin is against God and the Body of Christ!

Am I making any sense?
 
Future_Prodigy said:
I would aggre that certain sins keep us away from God and loving him and our neighbour but I dont see how they can be called eternal slaps in the faces per say, whereby the only remedy is for Christs coming to attone for the punishment that is rightly ours. I just have a hard time imagining a lot of sins offending God. If i caught my son swearing and lsuting after women i would be disappointed and hurt that he is hurting himself and creating a wrong view of reality. Not say unless you confess and return to me you will spend etenrity without me.
Click to expand...
Why is confessing and returning to Him so hard?

Are you married? If you offend your wife, don’t you feel the need to make up for any of these offenses, or should she just say, “that’s OK”, no matter how many times you turn your back on her? If you truly love her, don’t you want to do ANYTHING in order to restore her faith and trust in you?
 
"There is no such thing as just hurting yourself when you sin. Any sin is against God and the Body of Christ!

Am I making any sense?"

up till this point. Read what i wrote above and i can try and explain my line of thoguht more. I dont know why this happens (these thoguht patterns) now during lent:mad:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top