Sin in fiction and writing?

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I’m a big reader, devouring books like donuts. And a bit of a writer as well (albeit not a great one!) I’ve always read a wide range of books, and my writings tend to be as varied, from fantasy to comedy to chilvalry and political revolution. I like writing about people, all kinds of people, from all different parts of the wold, cultures, faiths. My characters are Catholics and Christians, atheists and buddhists. Chaste newlyweds and those who didn’t wait for marriage. Angels, the devout, the doubting. Homosexuals who have chosen to live chaste lives, and others who have not.

I’ve always been drawn to these stories, writing and reading, because they had such a wide slice of humanity, showing how ones past, ones faith, one’s sins affect everything about oneself. I don’t, of course, think premarital sex or atheism is right, but I always felt it was merely portraying reality in fiction, and that to ignore and omit things about the world that were not pure would be a flawed portrayal of humanity.

However, today, I was told by a family friend (I don’t know her faith, but I’m fairly sure it isn’t Catholic) told me that to willingly acknowledge sin like this is just as bad as committing the sin itself, and that writing sin has made me sin.

I don’t understand, but I’m trying to. I was never intending to sin- my stories and the ones I love to read are not sexual nor violent bloodbaths. All along, trying to write what I saw in the world, have I been sinning?
 
I’m a big reader, devouring books like donuts. And a bit of a writer as well (albeit not a great one!) I’ve always read a wide range of books, and my writings tend to be as varied, from fantasy to comedy to chilvalry and political revolution. I like writing about people, all kinds of people, from all different parts of the wold, cultures, faiths. My characters are Catholics and Christians, atheists and buddhists. Chaste newlyweds and those who didn’t wait for marriage. Angels, the devout, the doubting. Homosexuals who have chosen to live chaste lives, and others who have not.

I’ve always been drawn to these stories, writing and reading, because they had such a wide slice of humanity, showing how ones past, ones faith, one’s sins affect everything about oneself. I don’t, of course, think premarital sex or atheism is right, but I always felt it was merely portraying reality in fiction, and that to ignore and omit things about the world that were not pure would be a flawed portrayal of humanity.

However, today, I was told by a family friend (I don’t know her faith, but I’m fairly sure it isn’t Catholic) told me that to willingly acknowledge sin like this is just as bad as committing the sin itself, and that writing sin has made me sin.

I don’t understand, but I’m trying to. I was never intending to sin- my stories and the ones I love to read are not sexual nor violent bloodbaths. All along, trying to write what I saw in the world, have I been sinning?
She needs to support her accusation that the things you write about as described above are “just as bad” as committing the sin itself.

That’s quite a jump in logic she made.
 
I should have asked her that, but I was too taken aback. I mean, if I were to be advocating such things, saying, “Hey y’all, ain’t nothing wrong with gay sex, go have it!” then yeah…I think I would rightfully need to feel more than a little uncomfortable with myself o.0 But in the way I write…the charactes are not defined as “a homosexual” “an adulterer” or “an atheist” but rather a human with vices, weaknesses and sin, just like everyone else, and…I don’t see what’s wrong with that. And actually, isn’t that sort of church teaching? We don’t say “You’re a ___!” we say, you’re a person who has struggles with _____

And what of books? I fail to see how reading a book about someone who has sinned can make you just as guilty of the sin.

If I see he again soon, I’ll be sure to try and get a bette answer from her.
 
Ask her if the writers of the Bible were also sinning when they penned the many accounts of sinful behavior one finds in the Scriptures. Like the account of David’s dalliance with Bathsheba and his arranging for her husband Uriah to die in battle after she discovered she was pregnant with David’s child - that’s a hot mess! Must have been a sin to recount that, eh? Oh, please.

As long as what you write is honest about the ramifications of sinful behavior, there is no problem. It’s a portrayal of the human condition, flaws and all.

Betsy
 
You know, I hadn’t even thought of the Bible in this context. Parhaps she assumes that since the Bible is true and fantasy writing is fiction, there’s a difference, I don’t know.

The world my writings take place in is our own, with the knowledge that there is one true God who loves the sinner and hates the sin, just as in the real world.

In writing, there is something sometimes called, ironically enough, the Word of God, which refers to statements the author has said about the story outside the actual book. For example, if a characters age was never written, but the author says they are 30, “Word of God” says they are 30.

Even if a story I write has no talk of religion, or if the character seemed to have little concern over what they had done, or were otherwise good people (as most of us sinners are) if someone were to ask me about it I would tell them that yes, the story is in the world of God, and they will have to answer for their actions after death. Even if he’s the hero of the story.
 
I’m a big reader, devouring books like donuts. And a bit of a writer as well (albeit not a great one!) I’ve always read a wide range of books, and my writings tend to be as varied, from fantasy to comedy to chilvalry and political revolution. I like writing about people, all kinds of people, from all different parts of the wold, cultures, faiths. My characters are Catholics and Christians, atheists and buddhists. Chaste newlyweds and those who didn’t wait for marriage. Angels, the devout, the doubting. Homosexuals who have chosen to live chaste lives, and others who have not.

I’ve always been drawn to these stories, writing and reading, because they had such a wide slice of humanity, showing how ones past, ones faith, one’s sins affect everything about oneself. I don’t, of course, think premarital sex or atheism is right, but I always felt it was merely portraying reality in fiction, and that to ignore and omit things about the world that were not pure would be a flawed portrayal of humanity.

However, today, I was told by a family friend (I don’t know her faith, but I’m fairly sure it isn’t Catholic) told me that to willingly acknowledge sin like this is just as bad as committing the sin itself, and that writing sin has made me sin.

I don’t understand, but I’m trying to. I was never intending to sin- my stories and the ones I love to read are not sexual nor violent bloodbaths. All along, trying to write what I saw in the world, have I been sinning?
Chin up. Methinks your friend is jealous. I strongly believe that authors who write for God’s glory get attacked spiritually. So that’s just the enemy yakking. Ignore it and keep writing, Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam! 🙂
 
Thank you all so much for the quick responses! I feel such a sense of relief!

I think I may be a little paranoid and over anxious! Although raised Catholic, I’ve only recently began REALLY wanting to be an active Catholic in my faith. Being still pretty unsure of my bearings, I get so worried over everything like this, I’m afraid!

Hmm…I don’t know if I can call her jealous. Maybe she is, maybe she truly believes this and was trying to help me.
 
Depicting sin in writing is an iffy subject to my mind. It is what makes me hesitate to write at all.

I wish I had a proper feeling for how to manage it all, and the standards in my mind.

You have to be careful that the person reading the material does not desire to commit the sin or take any pleasure in the thought of the sin because of the way you have written about it in your book.

You have to be careful what you write would not be harmful to the reader in the ways a reader can be harmed from imagining what you are writing.

Finally, is the work one of vain curiousity pleasing and mindless entertainment, of passions and sensuality, or does it bring the mind to God and the love of virtue? And how much or little does it bring the mind to God?

Being an artist or creator has always struck me as a difficult and dangerous vocation.
 
Thank you all so much for the quick responses! I feel such a sense of relief!

I think I may be a little paranoid and over anxious! Although raised Catholic, I’ve only recently began REALLY wanting to be an active Catholic in my faith. Being still pretty unsure of my bearings, I get so worried over everything like this, I’m afraid!

Hmm…I don’t know if I can call her jealous. Maybe she is, maybe she truly believes this and was trying to help me.
Well, your situation resonated with me because something similar happened when I mentioned my manuscript to a friend. To me, it shows how much you love the Lord that you don’t want to offend Him in any way, not even in a fantasy-fiction book.
 
Speaking as a writer and editor, I use this link as a guide. It may surprise many here, but there was a Catholic Legion of Decency at one time. That’s right, the Catholic Church reminded those in the media that they had certain duties and responsibilities toward the public.

historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5099/

It takes a while to learn to be a good writer. Regardless of advances in technology, the learning curve never goes away.

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
Speaking as a writer and editor, I use this link as a guide. It may surprise many here, but there was a Catholic Legion of Decency at one time. That’s right, the Catholic Church reminded those in the media that they had certain duties and responsibilities toward the public.

historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5099/

It takes a while to learn to be a good writer. Regardless of advances in technology, the learning curve never goes away.

Hope this helps,
Ed
I think that’s an excellent guide for any obedient Catholic writer. Thanks for posting this!
 
Depicting sin in writing is an iffy subject to my mind. It is what makes me hesitate to write at all.

I wish I had a proper feeling for how to manage it all, and the standards in my mind.

You have to be careful that the person reading the material does not desire to commit the sin or take any pleasure in the thought of the sin because of the way you have written about it in your book.

You have to be careful what you write would not be harmful to the reader in the ways a reader can be harmed from imagining what you are writing.

Finally, is the work one of vain curiousity pleasing and mindless entertainment, of passions and sensuality, or does it bring the mind to God and the love of virtue? And how much or little does it bring the mind to God?

Being an artist or creator has always struck me as a difficult and dangerous vocation.
Thank you very much for the good words and advice.

I can’t say what I write is necessarily a book. More like, a ginormous slew of short stories, some connected to each other, other’s not, and each bringing to mind different things. Most of them are just entertainment; for example, the story I’m working on now involves a royal kidnapping mystery, deep in medieval-esque politics, chivalry and a hint of fantasy. Othes have been very God focused, such as a life long murderer reflecting on his life and wondering why he ignored God, and wondering how much of what he did was madness and how much he only WISHES was insanity, and the imminent prospect of hell.

I try very hard to walk a tightrope in my writings; I don’t want to sugarcoat what has been done, but I don’t want to broadcast each detail. I mean, I definitely wouldn’t portray a sex scene, even if the character has had premaital sex, or depict a murder, even if the character has killed.

I certainly don’t want people who would read my stories, if more than my inner circle ever did, and want to emulate the sin in it. Rather, I’d hope they’d take from it the main theme I work into a lot of my stories, that sinners are still people loved by the lord, and shouldn’t be labeled or demonized. That they can still do good works, but, of course, in SPITE of their sin.

Of course, all this makes it sound as though sin is the focus on my stories, doesn’t it? XD Which isn’t the case. Rather, I guess you could say it’s like following any person around with a camera, seeing both their triumphs AND their stumbles.

To make a long story short, I guess you could say I don’t write about people sinning, or focus on the sin itself, but people who have sinned and how it effects or doesn’t effect them
 
…So, reading back over the last post, and being too late to edit, I wanna correct myself on something I think I misunderstood. Because the way I keep going on, it makes it sound like sinning is the focus of my writings o.0

I wanna make it clear that in most cases I’m not depicting sin, but sinners, if you can see where I’m coming from. I’m not depicting a kill, or sex. I’m not depicting an theist destroying a Bible or a man hooking up with another man.

Rather, the stories are about people, all people. Like I said in my first post, everyone from virtusous believers to wonderers to the average agnostic american teenager.

I don’t write stories centered on the sin, but rather, on people. And all people sin, so…I never saw any problem with portraying people realistically. The assassin is never SHOWN killing someone, the teen couple’s activities are never detailed, the atheist doesn’t rant on and on about the non-existance of God. What they have done is not the plot of the story, but rather things used to build the character himself, to show how Man A is the man he is today because of who he is, what he has done, and how he feels about what he has done.Am I making any sense? XD

I’m sorry if I was unclear! XD Ironically, although writing is my hobby, I’m rather bad at describing things pertaining to myself!
 
I’m a big reader, devouring books like donuts. And a bit of a writer as well (albeit not a great one!) I’ve always read a wide range of books, and my writings tend to be as varied, from fantasy to comedy to chilvalry and political revolution. I like writing about people, all kinds of people, from all different parts of the wold, cultures, faiths. My characters are Catholics and Christians, atheists and buddhists. Chaste newlyweds and those who didn’t wait for marriage. Angels, the devout, the doubting. Homosexuals who have chosen to live chaste lives, and others who have not.

I’ve always been drawn to these stories, writing and reading, because they had such a wide slice of humanity, showing how ones past, ones faith, one’s sins affect everything about oneself. I don’t, of course, think premarital sex or atheism is right, but I always felt it was merely portraying reality in fiction, and that to ignore and omit things about the world that were not pure would be a flawed portrayal of humanity.

However, today, I was told by a family friend (I don’t know her faith, but I’m fairly sure it isn’t Catholic) told me that to willingly acknowledge sin like this is just as bad as committing the sin itself, and that writing sin has made me sin.

I don’t understand, but I’m trying to. I was never intending to sin- my stories and the ones I love to read are not sexual nor violent bloodbaths. All along, trying to write what I saw in the world, have I been sinning?
Aw man, you and I are quite alike when it comes to stories. Reading about stories that give you that subtle feeling that it reflects reality without over exaggerating, now that’s what I call slice of life. I’m probably just a tad bit more expressive than you though when it comes to details. :o

Personally though, I haven’t exactly been reading a lot of “books” per se but comics. However, I make no discrimination between both when it comes to the sheer sequence of events that is story-telling. Simply put, art and writing style come second to plot. 😛

Anyways, I can’t stand sugarcoated stories too. Stories that don’t reflect the imperfection of the human person and don’t explore the struggles real people go through might as well be written for toddlers.

Now you’re asking if writing about sin is a sin. Actually, it’s how you portray sin. Take lust for instance. I’ve read many stories (both fanfiction and original) that are quite kinky and have attempted to pen a few kinky paragraphs myself (much to my great embarrassment afterwards :o). I’ve noticed that with the right words you can (to an extent) mold a reader’s reaction in a certain direction.

So with that said, ask yourself, “What am I trying to make my reader feel?”

Now personally, I like writing stories about morally woebegone societies. A world where crime, corruption, and gang youth violence are the premises and set in a dreary, urban backdrop; a world where what was illegal became legal (and vice versa). Still there are those who dwell in such a world who struggle to do whatever right thing they can, despite the difficulty and unfair circumstances such a world throws them.

One of the most common scenarios and issues tackled in such a setting though is prostitution, pornography, and rape. Now whenever I find myself in need of painting a scene like that (be it a girl forcibly sold to a pimp or a high schooler assaulted by her teacher etc) I always make the girls look like victims. Not sex toys, victims. Now I’ve watched movies and documentaries as well as read articles regarding prostitution. Despite all the unavoidable details, they instead chose to highlight the despair, the humiliation, the helplessness, and the outright grief these poor women experienced.

That’s what it means to shape your audience’s perspective. The grisly details can be there but instead of glorifying those, you instead present it as something as it should be seen in the eyes of a moral person: That such things are contemptible, repulsive, and a complete violation of human rights.

Next up is violence and unlike the awkwardness I feel when writing kinky stuff, choreographing fights is the one thing I just feel so good about. The clash of the sword. The flurry of fists. The channeling of mystical energies to unleash destructive phenomenon.

You really gotta admit, such things are just sweet eye candy (be they portrayed with words or with pictures).

Now glorifying violence is always an issue I find wholly misunderstood. Violence is merely a tool. It all depends on who you use it against. Surely you would be disgusted or turned off if you saw violence being done to an innocent person (which is why even an action junkie like myself always found slasher flicks to be disgusting and pointless).

On the other hand, what if said violence was done to the villains I mentioned above?

The pimp who slaps the women he’s enslaved.
The teacher who abuses his position of authority to shamelessly harass his student.

These are all typical villain archetypes and I portray them to be hopelessly unrepentant to the end. They’re the finest examples of what the worst a human being could be.

With that said, I highly doubt it’d be difficult to feel sorry for people like that even if they were oh, let’s say… cleaved in half? Burned alive? Fed with lead? All while trying to escape justice. :cool:

In short, violence is like gun control. It’s not a sin in of itself. It just comes with the responsibility of knowing who to point it too. 🤷

P.S.

To the one who said that being a writer, artist, or creator is a dangerous vocation: You’re only saying that because you’re seeing it from the eyes of someone not called to it. It’s the same way I’ve heard writers like myself find the priesthood unappealing because we’ve judged from our perspective.
 
I think you and I may be coming from the same end of the writing community. I got my start with fanfiction from TV shows, manga, and movies.

You did a very good job of describing how it can be done, I think. Of course, nobody needs to be told that prostitution, rape and the like or horrible, horribly wrong, but it exists, and can be made a part of the story, I feel, when handled in the way it’s suppose to be. In a dystopian world, it would make sense for these sorts of things to occur, and writing them in a non sexual manner would be, I’d think, fine to the plot if it avoided all the nitty gritty details!

For example, a part of one of my longer, ongoing stories involved a girl who was sold by her own mothe into slavery, and while there was no doubt as to what happened, I didn’t go into graphic, disturbing detail. not in the least. Although no one will ever read this story, if they would, unless they were emotionally disturbed, their reaction would be one of deep sympathy to the girl, and in the end, she was of course freed and justice was served.

With me, it really isn’t so much the sins being committed, but how it affects the person. For example, I use to wite a lot of fanfiction about a character who was a true sociopath, and a hired assassin. I made allusions to his killing, to his other faults, but when I wrote a story about him, I didn’t write about death. I wrote about the person. I loved picking around in his head, trying to see what mdae him tick, why he was the way he was. Could he ever feel remorse for his sins? Could he ever feel love? Was he a true sociopath? etc.

I think I may differ a little form you there. While I do have many characters who were used purely as villains, to be evil incarnate, I have many who are morally ambiguos. There is one, I guess you could say his story could lead to a debate over whether or not questionable means can be justified by pure intentions in the context of war. He is not what I would call a good guy. He’s an anti hero, AT BEST. He wanted to do the right thing, but had horrible ways of getting there. I feel that he’s interesting, and provides a lot of thought into morality, and makes you think about what you think is right and what you think is wrong, and ow had it is sometimes to see the truth. He sinned greatly, but I don’t feel that potraying this character was bad.

I also went through a time where I tried smutty, almost pornographic writings. It didn’t take long for me to realize that this was just SO not acceptable.

…I think I’m rambling now.
 
Whenever I think of writing, I think writing reflects the mind of the author, so to the degree the author’s mind is oriented towards sin and the passions rather than God, so too in many ways the book.

And I think of what the saints have to say about secular writings. Some quotes for thought:

'The reading of spiritual works is as profitable as the reading of bad books is noxious. As the former has led to the conversion of many sinners, so the latter is every day the ruin of many young persons. The first author of pious books is the Spirit of God; but the author of pernicious writings is the devil, who often artfully conceals from certain persons the poison that such works contain, and makes these persons believe that the reading of such books is necessary in order to speak well, and to acquire a knowledge of the world for their own direction, or at least in order to pass the time agreeably. But I say that, especially for nuns, nothing is more pernicious than the reading of bad books. And by bad books I mean not only those that are condemned by the Holy See, either because they contain heresy, or treat of subjects opposed to chastity, but also all books that treat of worldly love. What fervor can a religious have if she reads romances, comedies, or profane poetry? What recollection can she have in meditation or at Communion? Can she be called the spouse of Jesus Christ? Should she not rather be called the spouse of a sinful world? Even young women in the world that are in the habit of reading such books are generally not virtuous seculars.

But some one may say, What harm is there in reading romances and profane poetry when they contain nothing immodest? Do you ask what harm? Behold the harm: the reading of such works kindles the concupiscence of the senses, and awakens the passions; these easily gain the consent of the will, or at least render it so weak that when the occasion of any dangerous affection occurs the devil finds the soul already prepared to allow itself to be conquered. A wise author has said that by the reading of such pernicious books heresy has made, and makes every day, great progress; because such reading has given and gives increased strength to libertinism. The poison of these books enters gradually into the soul; it first makes itself master of the understanding, then infects the will, and in the end kills the soul. The devil finds no means more efficacious and secure of sending a young person to perdition than the reading of such poisoned works.’

‘Remember also that for you certain useless books, though not bad, will be pernicious; because they will make you lose the time that you can employ in occupations profitable to the soul. In a letter to his disciple Eustochium, St. Jerome stated for her instruction that in his solitude at Bethlehem he was attached to the works of Cicero, and frequently read them, and that he felt a certain disgust for pious books because their style was not polished. He was seized with a serious malady, in which he saw himself at the tribunal of Jesus Christ. The Lord said to him: “Tell me; what are you?” “I am,” replied the saint, “a Christian.” “No,” rejoined the Judge, “you are a Ciceronian, not a Christian.” He then commanded him to be instantly scourged. The saint promised to correct his fault, and having returned from the vision he found his shoulders livid and covered with wounds in consequence of the chastisement that he had received. Thenceforward he gave up the works of Cicero, and devoted himself to the reading of books of piety. It is true that in the works like those of Cicero we sometimes find useful sentiments; but the same St. Jerome wisely said in a letter to another disciple: “What need have you of seeking for a little gold in the midst of so much mire,” when you can read pious books in which you may find all gold without any mire?’

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

‘When one reads a good work by a dangerous author, first the book pleases, then the author himself from that moment, finding the mind predisposed in his favor, he easily inculcates his deadly principles.’

St. Ignatius of Loyola

‘. . . those who make bad pictures and statues, or write bad books, they will have to answer for all the harm that these things will do during all the time they last.’

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars

‘What I shall now speak of was, I believe, the beginning of great harm to me. I often think how wrong it is of parents not to be very careful that their children should always, and in every way, see only that which is good; for though my mother was, as I have just said, so good herself, nevertheless I, when I came to the use of reason, did not derive so much good from her as I ought to have done – almost none at all; and the evil I learned did me much harm. She was very fond of books of chivalry; but this pastime did not hurt her so much as it hurt me, because she never wasted her time on them; only we, her children, were left at liberty to read them; and perhaps she did this to distract her thoughts from her great sufferings, and occupy her children, that they might not go astray in other ways. It annoyed my father so much, that we had to be careful he never saw us. I contracted a habit of reading these books; and this little fault which I observed in my mother was the beginning of lukewarmness in my good desires, and the occasion of my falling away in other respects. I thought there was no harm in it when I wasted many hours night and day in so vain an occupation, even when I kept it a secret from my father. So completely was I mastered by this passion, that I thought I could never be happy without a new book.’

St. Teresa of Jesus

‘Read good and useful books, and abstain from reading those that only gratify curiosity.’

St. Vincent de Paul
 
thank you very much for the quotes, Shin. I think some make some very valid points.

However, I still don’t see anything wrong with secular fiction in and of itself. I;ve been reading it since I learned how to read, and I still hold true to the same good values I was always taught. An old AAA I found answered by a Father said that the reading of secular fiction, even with ambiguous morals, only becomes a problem if it starts affecting your morals.

Like I keep trying to say, my writing isn’t orientated towards sin, but people, and all people sin. It would be inaccurate if I depicted the characters to all be sinless with no faults, dont you think?
 
Sorry Shin but you’re really just proving my point with all these quotes. You are viewing the job of an author from the eyes of someone not called to it.

First off, the one thing fiction authors will always be demanded of is an intense imagination. They are supposed to fire up your senses. It does not matter if you use words, marble, or paint, our task is to create a picture. What matters is what we and our audiences think of our picture.

Secondly, I will never find fiction that would please any of the saints you’ve described. They sound like people who don’t read fiction at all in fact. I doubt they’d even pick up a copy of Dante’s Inferno or Lord of the Rings.

Finally, they live in a world impossible for modern man to relate too. It’s a sad fact but you have to face it. No matter what era, an author must always try to relate and connect with his audience to tell his/her story and the message it tells.

If he/she doesn’t, who’s going to listen? How can he/she plant seeds with the talent?
 
I think there is a good ndelying message in what Shin is trying to share with us, though. As arists, we have the power to shape people’s emotions, their thoughts and feelings. Not to pull a spider-man here, but I guess you could say with great power comes great responsibility! XD

However, I’ve been looking through the AAA archives, and have found many questiosn relating to secular fiction containing morally questionable meterial. The answers all say that one must use their heart to guide them away from mateial that would inspire them to sin, but that the material in and of themselves are not sinful. In other wods, there is no sin in readinga romance novel, unless it contains things which would arouse you and cause you to become unchaste. I even managed to find the answer to my original question there!
 
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