Sin in fiction and writing?

[shondrea]

I’m sorry, you keep missing my points.

EVERYTHING and EVERYONE other than you have reassured me time and time again that there is NO SIN in enjoying secular entertainment in moderation. You make it sound like I’m addicted to porn, for goodness sake. Actually, at one point and time, I WAS a porn reader, an avid one, and along with prayer and self restraint, occupying my urges by reading adorable, wholesome romances was what helped me get over it in the first place.

I read a fantasy novel based off of Alice in Wonderland last night. Forive me, Shin, but I’m not sure what world you’re living in when this is a sin. The priests, apologists, layCatholics and every other source I’ve checked speaks different words than you.

AGAIN, I think it best if we drop this, now.

 

[Shin]

There are plenty of priests and good Catholics who agree with this.

We live in times of great corruption. People need to wake up to that. What is provided by the media is not Christian entertainment. Period. A good Christian is not entertained by most of it, because what kind of entertainment it provides does not please God, and does please a properly formed soul who actually pays attention to what the content is, rather than being a person who just experiences whatever the TV, books, etc. pours into your head and says you should feel about it.

You should feel quite differently, and somewhere in the law written in your heart, this is true. It’s uncomfortable, it’s something people want to ignore, but it’s true.

I just have to say – if you can’t give it up, even for a time, you’re a slave to it. If you’re a slave to it, you’re in trouble.

As for the rest… read the traditional standards of morality, modesty, near occasion of sin… and think about what you enjoy in Heaven… rather than what you are enjoying now on earth.

You have to get from being one type of person to the other, sooner or later. If you don’t want to be a person who likes to live in Heaven, and is entertained by what Heaven provides rather than the world, you’re not likely to go there.

‘The Apostle commands us to rejoice, but in the Lord, not in the world. For, you see, as Scripture says, whoever wishes to be a friend of this world will be counted as God’s enemy. Just as a man cannot serve two masters, so too no-one can rejoice both in the world and in the Lord.’

St. Augustine

‘If you want to be certain of being in the number of the Elect, strive to be one of the few, not one of the many. And if you would be quite sure of your salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few; that is to say: do not follow the great majority of mankind, but follow those who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who give themselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or night, so that they may attain everlasting blessedness.’

St. Anselm of Canterbury

‘Not all, nor even a majority, are saved. . . They are indeed many, if regarded by themselves, but they are few in comparison with the far larger number of those who shall be punished with the devil.’

St. Augustine

‘Very few men can accurately recognize all their own faults; indeed, only those can do this whose intellect is never torn away from the remembrance of God. Our bodily eyes, when healthy, can see everything, even gnats and mosquitoes flying about in the air; but when they are clouded by some discharge, they see large objects only indistinctly and small things not at all. Similarly if the soul, through attentiveness, reduces the blindness caused by the love of this world, it will consider its slightest faults to be very grave and will continually shed tears with deep thankfulness. For it is written, ‘The righteous shall give thanks unto Thy name’ (Ps. 140:13). But if the soul persists in its worldly disposition, even though it commits a murder or some other act deserving severe punishment, it takes little notice; and it is quite unable to discern its other faults, often considering them to be signs of progress, and in its wretchedness it is not ashamed to defend them heatedly.’

St. Diadochos of Photiki

 

[shondrea]

…Shin, I’m sorry, but I DO NOT agree with you that watching Babe is going to send me to hell. The Bible talks about fornication. I could just as easily read the bible and be tempted to sin. You’re making it sound like I’m some sort of devil who doesn’t care about learning about God, Jesus, religion or any of that. I read the bible, I read books of bible stories, I read Christian fiction, AND I like sprinkling of country music in with this.

I have asked you very politely, let’s drop this converstion, PLEASE.

 

[Shin]

I don’t know the particular situations of each of you… to most a degree, but what I have said does generally apply.

Especially to that anime I know LW is into. You have to give that up, in general.

And that is about it yes, all I have to say perhaps. We may have to agree to disagree.

 

[shondrea]

What of movies such as Schindlers list? The vatican considers it one of the best movies of all time.

As for anime…Oh yes, Shin, there is plenty that shouldn’t be viewed, EVER, but also plenty that are child friendly and teaches good, wholesome, mor-

Oh, wait…you think DIsney is the devil. Nevermind.

Good day to you Shin. Thank you for your concern, but I feel very much at peace with the answers my own priests have given me about this subject.

 

[Shin]

I’m sure when some officials in the Vatican promoted the castrato choir you would’ve signed on to that being moral too.

Not everything that comes out from above has equal weight… plenty of Popes would condemn what has come out recently.

So then you have to go to the timeless moral standards and apply them. And learn them. For the sake of your soul.

 

[shondrea]

…Wow. Just…wow, Shin.

I trust the church, and I trust the heart. I don’t trust you.

God knows what’s in my heart, not you.

And I am so done with this.

 

[Shin]

Farewell!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

…Wow. Just…wow, Shin.

I trust the church, and I trust the heart. I don’t trust you.

God knows what’s in my heart, not you.

And I am so done with this.

Don’t worry. I’ll take over (I told you this guy had no clue ).

Not everything that comes out from above has equal weight… plenty of Popes would condemn what has come out recently.

Plenty of Popes would’ve also re-instituted simony and banned harmless games like chess too.

I don’t know the particular situations of each of you… to most a degree, but what I have said does generally apply.

Especially to that anime I know LW is into. You have to give that up, in general.

So says the person who’s never written any piece of fiction worth reading his entire life. Shin you once said that being an artist/writer is a “dangerous” vocation. Thanks for proving you’re not called to something you have no clue about.

We might as well all be Puritan.

There are plenty of priests and good Catholics who agree with this.

Yeah I know. The Traditionalists.

We live in times of great corruption. People need to wake up to that. What is provided by the media is not Christian entertainment. Period. A good Christian is not entertained by most of it, because what kind of entertainment it provides does not please God, and does please a properly formed soul who actually pays attention to what the content is, rather than being a person who just experiences whatever the TV, books, etc. pours into your head and says you should feel about it.

Ever heard of… oh what was it… TASTE? Not everyone who enjoys secular entertainment swallows it down mindlessly in the manner that you’re suggesting. Whaddya think the critics are there for? Some of them are annoying but others put some really nice perspective.

And no, I’m not talking about uptight, prudish, so-called “Christian” critics who blast movies for trivial details (like the one in your article). I’m talking about people, buffs, who know their stuff.

Believe me, they don’t watch just anything.

You should feel quite differently, and somewhere in the law written in your heart, this is true. It’s uncomfortable, it’s something people want to ignore, but it’s true.

Feel? Hmm, let’s see… sits and thinks about it I don’t feel anything. Others here don’t seem to feel it. The OP sure as heck doesn’t.

There is one thing a good majority here seems to feel though but it’s not here points to chest it’s up here. points to noggin

Don’t forget about the head. God’s other gift to mankind.

I just have to say – if you can’t give it up, even for a time, you’re a slave to it. If you’re a slave to it, you’re in trouble.

So are people who are slaves to church work and spend less time with their family. I’m not one of those but if you can make such blatantly wild assumptions about people’s “state” so I can with possible scenarios regarding religious people.

As for the rest… read the traditional standards of morality, modesty, near occasion of sin… and think about what you enjoy in Heaven… rather than what you are enjoying now on earth.

You have to get from being one type of person to the other, sooner or later. If you don’t want to be a person who likes to live in Heaven, and is entertained by what Heaven provides rather than the world, you’re not likely to go there.

How old are you? I don’t know about you but I’m certainly not planning on going to the afterlife soon (be it Heaven, Hell, Purgatory) nuh-uh. I value my life and time here on Earth (something the Church also advocates).

There’s so much stuff to do here. People like you advocate life under a rock, life in a bubble, when there were even a few saints who went out into the world and tried to live in it.

Oh and speaking of saints? You’ve still haven’t procured one sliver of fiction (not even a short story) written by one that’s not Playhouse Disney material.

Like I said, we might as well all be Puritan.

 

[shondrea]

Wanderer, I thank you for defending our points here, but I seem to think we’d all be happier if we just drop this. I have my answer, from someone I trust very much to not lead me astray, rather than a nameless bunch of pixels on the internet.

 

[FishHookOpenEye]

I have to admit, I have been dying to tell you all about a catholic writer that would scandalize most posters here. Based on the lack of substantial replies to the OP, in regard to using real life persons in the real world we live in…

I figured at least one catholic would be familliar with her.

I waited, hoping. Yet, none came.

Here she is folks, read. Learn. Grow. Open your eyes.

May I introduce you to Flannery O’Conner.

catholiceducation.org/articles/arts/al0058.html

I liked her before I liked any of you.

Thank you!!! I have been reading this thread and waiting for someone to mention Flannery O’Connor. Sin abounds in most of her stories, but you still see God. I think it takes more skill to show God in really really ugly places than in a flowery, religious text, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Thank you!!! I have been reading this thread and waiting for someone to mention Flannery O’Connor. Sin abounds in most of her stories, but you still see God. I think it takes more skill to show God in really really ugly places than in a flowery, religious text, but that’s just my opinion.

Actually that’s my opinion as well… and probably that of a few more others on these threads.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

If you’re too deep in the dirt you can’t actually understand what a clean world looks like. But all I have to say really, is get out of it and see what it’s like. God’s standards are greater than ours.

If all your life you spend in dirt, how do you know what life is like without it?

But I don’t have to say just that, I can point at the standards of what are and are not allowed in regards to impurity and modesty, and what pleases God that way and what does not, and it is clear that you have to give up a great deal of the entertainment you now enjoy.

And if you can’t… even for a short time… That’s addiction, which is slavery… And Christ came to free us from that. Slavery to the world, the flesh, and the devil.

This post is one of the best I’ve read on this specific topic! Bravo!

Too deep in dirt? Is that how you always describe people with common sense? Hopelessly desensitized?

No, it’s what we call people who need a major renewal in their relationship with Jesus Christ. It is obvious if religious writings are far from what you engage in, Kyle, you need this advice. We can all learn something from Catholic works in literature, philosophy, theology, anything! And they are good reading too!

We should work on our spiritual life before anything else. Only then can we go out into the world and judge everything by Catholic standards.

Are you posting this from heaven? If not, you are in the dirt my friend, with the rest of us simple folks who are not in a heaven. What pleases God in the bible can vary from killing entire tribes of people that are not like you, and changing standards on incest. I’m not so sure your argument is really compelling.

Shin is a very holy soul. And I am sure he has been there, done that. I believe what he has said is a only a reminder to us to remember who we serve. And it ain’t ourselves.

There are plenty of priests and good Catholics who agree with this.

And I am one of them!
**
Listen people** (Since Shin has been easy on you!!!)
Shin makes many great points and our Catholic Faith is written all over his posts. He is right. Do you think the greatest saints spent most of their time engaging in some of the material you engage in? Of course not! Understand me, and understand me well: I’m not saying your are sinning by reading some of that (well, there’s much better reading out there IMO). All I’m saying is some things can lead you to sin. When you first learned how to ride a bike, you fell a few times, right? And after you got it for a while, you would only fall as soon as you lost focus on staying balanced. Soon, staying balanced became natural, didn’t it? If you focus on religious, and uplifting reading and writing, you will stay completely balanced in your spiritual life. But as soon as you begin more and more to read stuff (and even do stuff) that is of this sinful, corrupt world, you will eventually lose balance and lose focus on God. Sure, you can go through the motions of your Catholic Faith. Go to Sunday Mass, receive the Sacraments, say the rosary. But it all comes down to your personal relationship with God. And HOW YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE FOR HIS GLORY.

I’m not judging. And I will certainly not assume you are sinning. But ask yourselves a question like “Would I been happy reading this in front of Jesus?” and you decide.

Thank you, SHIN! You stand as a beacon of common sense for the youth, and young adults.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Thank you!!! I have been reading this thread and waiting for someone to mention Flannery O’Connor. Sin abounds in most of her stories, but you still see God. I think it takes more skill to show God in really really ugly places than in a flowery, religious text, but that’s just my opinion.

There’s some truth to what you say. But FIRST, before you read texts “in the really ugly places,” you must have a really good Catholic head on your shoulders to give a Catholic opinion. And that starts with some good “flowery, religious texts”

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

No, it’s what we call people who need a major renewal in their relationship with Jesus Christ. It is obvious if religious writings are far from what you engage in, Kyle, you need this advice. We can all learn something from Catholic works in literature, philosophy, theology, anything! And they are good reading too!

Oh no m’dear. I never said they were devoid of anything. They just seriously lack anything with regards to fiction other than telling people to basically live under a rock. Sure in the future when I’m doing my studies on Christian Moral Theology (which is a required subject in my course) I’ll be inevitably consulting St. Aquinas and other Church philosophers.

But Creative Writing on the other hand… nope, sorry can’t think of anything written by a saint that will help me with my projects. Dante Alighieri, yes. J.R.R. Tolkien, yes. They’re both Catholics but at the same time, I really don’t think that the saints would like their works either.

Reading Shin’s post just goes on to prove that. :\

Shin is a very holy soul. And I am sure he has been there, done that. I believe what he has said is a only a reminder to us to remember who we serve. And it ain’t ourselves.

He sure ain’t helping his stance with his lack of testimony. Sorry Ther, but when I read his posts, I don’t see anyone with any writing experience at all. :\

But as soon as you begin more and more to read stuff (and even do stuff) that is of this sinful, corrupt world, you will eventually lose balance and lose focus on God.

You forget, this same sinful, corrupt world is the very world you have to live in. And the one thing that alienates people is the idea of hiding away from it. That’s where me and many posters who decry things as “flowery” come from. In this day and age, do you honestly think everyone (heck even a majority) are comfortable around a religious person or can relate to their spiritual experiences of religious euphoria? If they can’t stand religious texts, how much more the people who write and promote them?

 

[edwest2]

The word “opinion” is meaningless, especially on the internet. It provides no direction to those seeking honest answers to their questions.

The media, today, is pagan. It denounces good and praises evil. Fiction is filled with lewd, profane and pornographic things. And in the midst of it all, devout Christians are encouraged to say nothing or to be indifferent to sin. This is wrong.

There are black and white standards that all Christians should follow in writing fiction, especially today. I am a fiction writer and an editor of original fiction. The media company I work for has certain standards and those standards are enforced.

Pope Benedict has spoken about Indifference. Indifference leads to people thinking, “Hey. What’s the big deal?” That kind of thinking lets some think porn is no big deal, that ‘hooking up’ is no big deal and all sorts of other things.

It leads some to think that “progress” means being more and more graphic. That sort of thing should be condemned. There are books, magazines and newspapers I will not buy. There are fiction books I will not buy. There are historical books I will not buy. In fact, one was so bad I had to throw it in the garbage.

This sort of perversion is also seeping into non-fiction. I encourage my creative brothers and sisters in Christ to follow what has been taught to them and not the trends the world is promoting.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

There are black and white standards that all Christians should follow in writing fiction, especially today. I am a fiction writer and an editor of original fiction. The media company I work for has certain standards and those standards are enforced.

Tell me do you sell much or do you preach to a choir?

It leads some to think that “progress” means being more and more graphic. That sort of thing should be condemned. There are books, magazines and newspapers I will not buy. There are fiction books I will not buy. There are historical books I will not buy. In fact, one was so bad I had to throw it in the garbage.

Well unfortunately for you, there are people out there (including myself) who have very “graphic” imaginations but are only gifted with how to use words instead of lines and paper. What would you rather have us be? Lawyers?

Just what we need, another old-fashioned writer trying to force down obsolete standards against portraying detailed imagery in fiction. (That’s what being “graphic” is all about, in case you didn’t know.)

 

[edwest2]

Sin is never fashionable. It is a perversion of the good and true. If it is portrayed, it is always wrong. No anti-heroes, no dark heroes. Simply heroes and villains.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Sin is never fashionable. It is a perversion of the good and true. If it is portrayed, it is always wrong. No anti-heroes, no dark heroes. Simply heroes and villains.

People want something familiar to their reality. That’s today’s new standard for good fiction. And in reality, dark heroes and anti-heroes exist. That’s the beauty in human complexity. We are not easily pigeonholed in the childish manner you desire. Real-life people all have moralities of different shades. We don’t live in the 50s comic book fantasy land you look to so much.

P.S.

Thanks for not answering my first question.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

People want something familiar to their reality. That’s today’s new standard for good fiction. And in reality, dark heroes and anti-heroes exist. That’s the beauty in human complexity. We are not easily pigeonholed in the childish manner you desire. Real-life people all have moralities of different shades. We don’t live in the 50s comic book fantasy land you look to so much.

P.S.

Thanks for not answering my first question.

Let me give you the personal testimony you want so bad. I used to read “bad” “non-catholic” “non christian” books all the time. Did they bring me into a deeper and closer relationship with our Lord? Well, what do you think? How can one get to Heaven when they don’t nurture their spiritual life…their friendship with God? I know what it’s like to tune into the secular world. Read evil books. Watch evil things on the tv. And it does the exact opposite of what you may think it does.

You talk about expanding your horizons. Your mind. And I must say God has given you such a large and complex brain that you can use for the good! You ask great questions. You encourage fruitful dialog. Have you forgotten to bless and lift up the very One who gave you all those gifts?

The reason I haven’t seen you talk much about your spiritual life has to do with the material you immerse yourself in. You have planted the seed, but water it, Kyle! Give it sunlight!!!

I am sorry for singling you out. I just want my words to have made some sense to you personally. A good Catholic life reflects every little thing you do…including your books, movies, video games, your friends, your actions, your thoughts.