SIN in the Church

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johnnyjones

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How do we come to terms with the actions of those who profess to spiritual lead (priests, bishops etc.) in relation to the sex abuse scandal? The church moved people around knowing what horrors they did. Yes people are flawed but this is deeply grave and lives are permanently destroyed. We speak of the evils of the world but we have to somehow explain these horrific actions in the hiearchy. It’s painful because with all our sins and struggles we (or I ) look to the church as being better then ourselves through human nature.
 
Correction of the abuses has been, is being and will be made. As to moving offenders and hiding abuse, public school systems have done exactly the same. What do we think about that?
 
johnnyjones said:
How do we come to terms with the actions of those who profess to spiritual lead (priests, bishops etc.) in relation to the sex abuse scandal? The church moved people around knowing what horrors they did. Yes people are flawed but this is deeply grave and lives are permanently destroyed. We speak of the evils of the world but we have to somehow explain these horrific actions in the hiearchy. It’s painful because with all our sins and struggles we (or I ) look to the church as being better then ourselves through human nature.
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I don’t know, but I have oft wondered the same thing. Has there never been an official kind of statement? The subject was not touched upon in my RCIA last year, and no one brought it up.
 
po18guy said:
Correction of the abuses has been, is being and will be made. As to moving offenders and hiding abuse, public school systems have done exactly the same. What do we think about that?
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I appreciate your response but as much as the schools and the teachers are important, I put the church many notches up from that institution.
 
johnnyjones said:
How do we come to terms with the actions of those who profess to spiritual lead (priests, bishops etc.) in relation to the sex abuse scandal? **The church moved people around knowing what horrors they did. Yes people are flawed but **this is deeply grave and lives are permanently destroyed. We speak of the evils of the world but we have to somehow explain these horrific actions in the hiearchy. It’s painful because with all our sins and struggles we (or I ) look to the church as being better then ourselves through human nature.
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The Church did no such thing, Bishops in the Church did. It must also be remembered that these Bishops relied on the"experts" of the time who said they"cured" the offenders. Now after the second time of offending I think the Bishops should have gotten a clue that it wasn’t working. The Church is full of sinners find me a church that isn’t.
 
adrift said:
The Church did no such thing, Bishops in the Church did. It must also be remembered that these Bishops relied on the"experts" of the time who said they"cured" the offenders. Now after the second time of offending I think the Bishops should have gotten a clue that it wasn’t working. The Church is full of sinners find me a church that isn’t.
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Bishops are a major part of the church. Is that the answer though, just all churches are full of sin? I mean this went on for a number of years and was not some “minor” sinning. This was rip roaring evil! It’s still a tough pill to swallow when we trust in the body of Christ and see such corruption.
 
johnnyjones said:
I appreciate your response but as much as the schools and the teachers are important, I put the church many notches up from that institution.
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As to your original question: the first thing we do is avoid ascribing guilt to all of the clergy and hierarchy. A relatively tiny (though inexcusable) percentage was ever involved in the scandal. A perhaps rhetorical question: As disappointing as this situation is, how does our Lord see each of us each time we enter the confessional after we had resolved to avoid sin?

The Church is in the midst of a reformation. Getting all 1.2 billion members back on the right track is the most labor and prayer-intensive endeavor that man has ever attempted. All involved need prayer and patience.
 
the wheat and the tares grew up together… “do not rip out the tares because you wil disturb the wheat, but at the last harvest burn the tares”

basically? any large enough group of people will have serious problems.
and sadly predators always seek out victims. if they like kids they look to be in authority over or near kids… if they prefer college co-eds they will work as security guards on a campus.

YES many Bishops were more concerned with reputation than with the truth. that is a common enough human failing. we all do it. do we expect more and better from a Bishop? certainly
but the only “absolute” protection is that the Pope, or the Church itself, will not fail or teach sin.

this is why very sinful Popes have not taught sinful doctrines (they sinned, they did not teach sin in the church)
why one man, who had promised to teach a sinful and heretical doctrine if his sponsor got him elected pope suddenly… didnt teach the sin that he had promised to teach.

Priests and Bishops and all are human, and as such are subject to sin, to doubt, to pride, to all manner of sin. same as i am.

jnow i do not doubt many of those who just moved priests around (some admittedly to places they were supposed to be away from kids) thought they were doing correctly. i dare say most of us think we are not sinning, or “not sinning that badly” even when we are.
and some knew better
and indeed there is a DRASTIC punishment taught by many of the saints, for those in authority who corrupt their authority, who teach sin, who harm others.
 
po18guy said:
A perhaps rhetorical question: As disappointing as this situation is, how does our Lord see each of us each time we enter the confessional - or don’t?

The Church is in the midst of a reformation. Getting all 1.2 billion members back on the right track is the most labor and prayer-intensive endeavor that man has ever attempted. All involved need prayer and patience.
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Good point, but one must admit it could take a lot of time for some to look at the church (or the people) without some suspicion after such human damage was done in a place where comfort and God are sought.
 
fabricdragon said:
the wheat and the tares grew up together… “do not rip out the tares because you wil disturb the wheat, but at the last harvest burn the tares”

basically? any large enough group of people will have serious problems.
and sadly predators always seek out victims. if they like kids they look to be in authority over or near kids… if they prefer college co-eds they will work as security guards on a campus.

YES many Bishops were more concerned with reputation than with the truth. that is a common enough human failing. we all do it. do we expect more and better from a Bishop? certainly
but the only “absolute” protection is that the Pope, or the Church itself, will not fail or teach sin.

this is why very sinful Popes have not taught sinful doctrines (they sinned, they did not teach sin in the church)
why one man, who had promised to teach a sinful and heretical doctrine if his sponsor got him elected pope suddenly… didnt teach the sin that he had promised to teach.

Priests and Bishops and all are human, and as such are subject to sin, to doubt, to pride, to all manner of sin. same as i am.

jnow i do not doubt many of those who just moved priests around (some admittedly to places they were supposed to be away from kids) thought they were doing correctly. i dare say most of us think we are not sinning, or “not sinning that badly” even when we are.
and some knew better
and indeed there is a DRASTIC punishment taught by many of the saints, for those in authority who corrupt their authority, who teach sin, who harm others.
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Nice response. I think though that the typical answer is to always say to look at ourselves, which we should. But lets face it as non clergy there is a tendency to look at priests and Bishops with a greater view then ourselves because of their station in life. It’s hard to see that kind of corruption and come to peace with it, but we must!
 
po18guy said:
Correction of the abuses has been, is being and will be made. As to moving offenders and hiding abuse, public school systems have done exactly the same. What do we think about that?
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I would like to see the Church of our Lord held to a higher standard than the… public school system.
 
As someone who lives in dioceses who has had more than its fair share of priest sex abuse scandals I can tell you priests were moved from parish to parish when complaints were filed with the bishop. The dioceses even had the nerve to blame the victimsin some cases! In the Boston dioceses Cardinal Law went to Rome hours fore he could be subpoenaed for his third grand jury appearance. He was the first high level church official to be accused of actively covering up the abuse committed by priests. After arriving in Rome he was appointed as Archpriest of the Papal Basilica of Saint Mary Major. In the wake of this scandal sixty-five parishes were closed before Cardinal Law stepped down and millions is legal fees and abuse claims were paid out.

It is shameful for people here to say show me a church that doesn’t have sinners or it happens in public schools also. That’s nonsense. It has turned people away from the church causing many, many people to lose their faith and a large number of parishes to close in my dioceses. People are fearful for their children’s safety. Ensuring public safety and accountability within the church needs to be a priority.
 
jericho777 said:
As someone who lives in dioceses who has had more than its fair share of priest sex abuse scandals I can tell you priests were moved from parish to parish when complaints were filed with the bishop. The dioceses even had the nerve to blame the victimsin some cases! In the Boston dioceses Cardinal Law went to Rome hours fore he could be subpoenaed for his third grand jury appearance. He was the first high level church official to be accused of actively covering up the abuse committed by priests. After arriving in Rome he was appointed as Archpriest of the Papal Basilica of Saint Mary Major. In the wake of this scandal sixty-five parishes were closed before Cardinal Law stepped down and millions is legal fees and abuse claims were paid out.

It is shameful for people here to say show me a church that doesn’t have sinners or it happens in public schools also. That’s nonsense. It has turned people away from the church causing many, many people to lose their faith and a large number of parishes to close in my dioceses. People are fearful for their children’s safety. Ensuring public safety and accountability within the church needs to be a priority.
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Yes, you are right.And I would add the pat answers about sin have worn thin.
 
po18guy said:
What I mean is, was there some new revelation or additional allegations? Some bad press? I do not know, as I do not watch the media.
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Oh, not that I’m aware of. It has troubled me for years this issue and I’m sure many others. It greatly compromises trust which shocks us to our core that men of God in the house of the Lord could commit such evil.
 
johnnyjones said:
Oh, not that I’m aware of. It has troubled me for years this issue and I’m sure many others. It greatly compromises trust which shocks us to our core that men of God in the house of the Lord could commit such evil.
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Why should you be shocked? Jesus’ own Apostles betrayed and denied Him. Why would it be different now?
 
adrift said:
Why should you be shocked? Jesus’ own Apostles betrayed and denied Him. Why would it be different now?
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Oh Please my friend don’t equate the apostles acts which did not change the Lord willingly laying down his life with the repeated rape of children that was purposely covered up. This took place over many years and was on a massive scale the church may still be paying financial restitution for. Yes, hurtful shock, and if you weren’t shocked, reflect on it.
 
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