Sin of the occult?

[rayne89]

Exporter:

I have been Roman Catholic for almost 50 years and never have I heard of a layman keeping a journal. If you want a book with the prayers - buy a Daily Missal.

You’ve never heard of a layman keeping a journal? Journal is another word for diary and lots of people keep them.

 

[BlessedBe13]

Shiann:

The problem here is that from a Catholic perspective, they COULD be comming from his dabbling in the occult (wiccan). This is the perspective from which his question originally stemmed, and the perspective of my answer. Catholics have a specific responsibility to avoid occult religions, including wiccan, regardless of your personal experiences or that of your friends and accquaintances.

I would also like to know what you consider to be “occult”. Wicca is a nature-based, polytheistic religion. Perhaps you are confusing Wicca with witchcraft? Although some Wiccans to practice witchcraft, not all do, and the two are completely separate practices. Although I still disagree that Wicca (or any of his former practices - unless I suppose any were based on Satanic rituals) had anything to do with his dreams, I suppose that looking at it from a Catholic perspective I see where you are coming from.

 

[BlessedBe13]

Exporter:

Did you mean former? So you are 16 and for over ten years you have matriculated through 5 different “religions” or “cults”. That may be a world record.

Although I will probably disagree with you on many things (as has been shown in my past experience here ) this is one point I definately agree with you on, which is why I brought it up in my original post.

You may be perfectly alright, but this fettish for “hiding” your writings is wrong. If you are planning to write Christian Prayers with a SPRINKLING of occultism, you are treading on dangerous ground.

ALthough I do not think it “dangerous” to use “occult” script, I am curious as to why these things need to be secret? Or is it just for fun?

 

[BlessedBe13]

silverwings_88:

Yes, I am aware that magick is evil, even if it is used for good purposes. Yes, I’ve learned my lesson as a Wiccan.

As a Wiccan, if anything you should have learned that magic is neither good nor evil, it is the intent behind it that is so.

I have not been dabbling, since I embraced all the celtic celebrations, and learned of our beliefs of the afterlife (such as Summerland) and bringing the Goddess into one’s life.

Ok, I didn’t say you necessarily were dabbling, but as you had been through so many religions in such little time it wouldn’t have surprised me.

Wicca offered much tolerance, which made me stay for such a long time.

Given your age, I am curious as to what a “long time” was?

As a person who is serious on religion and faith practices, I am slightly offended by such an assumption that I would merely ‘dabble’ due to my youth.

It is not just because of your youth. I am relatively young (nearly 20) and am a former Catholic and current Wiccan. I would consider myself dabbling in neither because I was a practicing Catholic most of my life (primarily b/c that’s how I was raised) and I take my current religious practices very seriously and don’t plan on jumping around. However if I myself had jumped from Catholicism to Baptist, to Judaism, to Wicca, to Santeria, to Hinduism, etc. by my age, chances are I probably would have been dabbling in each. I would think that same for an adult that had gone through so many religions.

Two years of solid solitary wicca was enough ground for me to learn of such material, as I practiced an angelic version of Wicca.[/QUIOTE] That answers my question from above. Although this may seem like a long time, it is certainly not enough to know all there is to the religion, but I agree that it is probably enough to determine whether or not it is the right religion for you.

My Wiccan years were not dabbling at all, and I hated that many teenagers who come into this faith system do it only be rebellion of by greed of having power.

I agree that I do not like dabblers that think Wicca is all about witchcraft and spells, etc. since as I said, not all Wiccans even practice witchcraft. In addition since Wicca also has nothing to do with gaining power or being greedy, since both go against some of the basic teachings. Children.

Now to go use my powerful Wiccaness to turn them all into toads. BWAHAHAHA!

 

[Exporter]

"You may be perfectly alright, but this fettish for “hiding” your writings is wrong. If you are planning to write Christian Prayers with a SPRINKLING of occultism, you are treading on dangerous ground. "

Planning to write Christian Prayers with a “sprinkling” of Occultism. May I expand on this? One who has been invo;ved on Occult and Wiccan practices probably has some whisps of the Occult smoke lingering even now. I was saying to write prayers with little inserts of the Occult would change the meaning of the Prayer and also be against God. You can’t have a melding of the Occult and Christianity.

Now that person in question says he/she is bi-sexual. Earlier it was said he/she wanted to be a Catholic Priest. That won’t work. A Priest is asexual, they do not participate sexually.

At this point in this thread, I think the original poster is performong a hoax or is mentally deranged. A hoax is more likely.

 

[silverwings_88]

"You may be perfectly alright, but this fettish for “hiding” your writings is wrong. If you are planning to write Christian Prayers with a SPRINKLING of occultism, you are treading on dangerous ground. "

Planning to write Christian Prayers with a “sprinkling” of Occultism. May I expand on this? One who has been invo;ved on Occult and Wiccan practices probably has some whisps of the Occult smoke lingering even now. I was saying to write prayers with little inserts of the Occult would change the meaning of the Prayer and also be against God. You can’t have a melding of the Occult and Christianity.

Now that person in question says he/she is bi-sexual. Earlier it was said he/she wanted to be a Catholic Priest. That won’t work. A Priest is asexual, they do not participate sexually.

At this point in this thread, I think the original poster is performong a hoax or is mentally deranged. A hoax is more likely.

Again, I KNOW that being a priest makes me asexual, but I was merely describing the time period in the past in which my sexuality was confusing. I TRULY want to become a priest, and share the gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ, without a lover except our Mother Church itself. I’ve pondered this long enough, adn now instead of being a slave to my temptations, I want to become a slave to Christ. It has been too long since i’ve been wiccan, and rather, I was pentecostal before I became a Catholic, renouncing all former beliefs in reincarnation, the pantheons of gods and goddesses, and the tolerance and free will of religion. Jesus’s way is the highway. I can’t just make up my own way and have a lover being a priest. I KNOW of what I must go through. I’ve already made an alphabet from MY OWN creation merely for fun (with NO occultic ideas or influences WHATSOEVER) from influences from the written languages of Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin, and if you have a problem with my linguistic fun… PLEASE don’t misunderstand me! :crying:

The reason why I post here is because I want to know more about the Catholic church, and I want to be able to know enough so I can face the dangers of the secular world. That’s why I play it safe and ask first, so I can have proper guidance before I can get a spiritual director. In all due seriousness, I’m serious about becoming a priest to God.

 

[silverwings_88]

BlessedBe13:

As a Wiccan, if anything you should have learned that magic is neither good nor evil, it is the intent behind it that is so. Ok, I didn’t say you necessarily were dabbling, but as you had been through so many religions in such little time it wouldn’t have surprised me. Given your age, I am curious as to what a “long time” was?

It is not just because of your youth. I am relatively young (nearly 20) and am a former Catholic and current Wiccan. I would consider myself dabbling in neither because I was a practicing Catholic most of my life (primarily b/c that’s how I was raised) and I take my current religious practices very seriously and don’t plan on jumping around. However if I myself had jumped from Catholicism to Baptist, to Judaism, to Wicca, to Santeria, to Hinduism, etc. by my age, chances are I probably would have been dabbling in each. I would think that same for an adult that had gone through so many religions.

Two years of solid solitary wicca was enough ground for me to learn of such material, as I practiced an angelic version of Wicca.[/QUIOTE] That answers my question from above. Although this may seem like a long time, it is certainly not enough to know all there is to the religion, but I agree that it is probably enough to determine whether or not it is the right religion for you.

I agree that I do not like dabblers that think Wicca is all about witchcraft and spells, etc. since as I said, not all Wiccans even practice witchcraft. In addition since Wicca also has nothing to do with gaining power or being greedy, since both go against some of the basic teachings. Children.

Now to go use my powerful Wiccaness to turn them all into toads. BWAHAHAHA!

Just to clarify, I am aware that magick according to Wiccan beliefs is neutral. But now that I’m Catholic, the perception is that all magick is considered evil, and people cannot go to heaven practicing sorcery.

Wicca ain’t about greed and gaining power, but what I was referring to is the abuse of magick, believing that they can have anything because they have this, ‘power.’

Frankly, I’d just pray to my God. The Lord is my rock and my salvation, Whom shall I fear? If I want something, and I need it, and if Jesus agrees, he may give it to me. Jesus already has given me blessings at the most unexpected moments. Magick isn’t one of them. He said so himself, that he is the way, the truth and the life. No one can come to the Father except through HIM! And if we follow Him, He will bless you in more ways than one.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

There is no past in Christ Jesus by the grace of His very Mercy in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, where you will be fully reconciled to the One True God and those things of the past, though remain in your memory will be forgotten by God.

The main thing for you to pray upon and occupy your thoughts with now is if you truly do have a call by God to a Vocation in the Priesthood or if it is simply something that presently you would like to do, there is a great difference between your desires and those of God.

Pray to the Holy Spirit for discernment and pray for a very long time on this. Pray before the Blessed Sacrament. Keep all of the Sacraments relevant to you and try and attend daily Mass. Practice the constant habit of prayer remembering you are always in the Presence of God. Deepen your prayer life. Read the lives of the Saints that inspire you and develop a deeper relationship through prayer with Our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary who is Patroness and refuge of all Priests. Constantly reassess your spirituality and how it is growing…how close do you feel to God? How is your prayer growing? How are you actively living your faith? How does God see you? How do you see God? Assess your ability to sacrifice. What am I willing to do for God? will I serve?(we know it was satan who refused to serve). Regulary examine your conscience and if you are changing in how you live your life and how your spirituality is growing…do you always say yes to God or do you try and compromise with God?? etc etc

I will pray for the discernment of your vocation. Try to keep your feet on the ground and remain level headed and wise in mind.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[silverwings_88]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

There is no past in Christ Jesus by the grace of His very Mercy in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, where you will be fully reconciled to the One True God and those things of the past, though remain in your memory will be forgotten by God.

The main thing for you to pray upon and occupy your thoughts with now is if you truly do have a call by God to a Vocation in the Priesthood or if it is simply something that presently you would like to do, there is a great difference between your desires and those of God.

Pray to the Holy Spirit for discernment and pray for a very long time on this. Pray before the Blessed Sacrament. Keep all of the Sacraments relevant to you and try and attend daily Mass. Practice the constant habit of prayer remembering you are always in the Presence of God. Deepen your prayer life. Read the lives of the Saints that inspire you and develop a deeper relationship through prayer with Our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary who is Patroness and refuge of all Priests.

I will pray for the discernment of your vocation. Try to keep your feet on the ground and remain level headed and wise in mind.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

It reminds me when I was praying for 2-3 hours for two days before the Blessed Sacrament. Everytime I went out from that church, I always felt calm and at peace as I spent time praying and reading the words of Jesus before the Blessed Sacrament. It’s a great stress reliever too!

I didn’t know our Blessed Mother was the Patroness of Priests? Wow… I learn something new everyday! Anyways, thank you soo much for your kind words ! It’s people like you who make me want to continue on so one day I can get out of school and preach the good word of God (according to the CCC of course, lol). It’s people who show the utmost kindness in which the Lord is truly present!

May our Lady of Angels (and Bl. Kateri Tekakwitha!) pray for you and all who are in need of discernment as well! I wonder if one can bless an alphabet…If not, the journal book is fine!

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

Presently practice detachment for things …this includes letters and alphabets .

Seek the Lord in prayer and write down in English anything that comes to you in prayer. Write down pieces of Sacred Scripture that stay in your mind after meditating on Sacred Scripture. Re-read these frequently, you will notice, by doing this, what the Lord is saying to you in His Word.

Remember the Lord loves a simple and humble heart, be very small in spirit, childlike, this doesn’t mean being like a child in your mind, it means having the heart and spirit of a child. Approach the Lord in simplicity, you have no need to make it complicated with words and alphabets. Your heart is what is most pleasing to the Lord.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[silverwings_88]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

Presently practice detachment for things …this includes letters and alphabets .

Seek the Lord in prayer and write down in English anything that comes to you in prayer. Write down pieces of Sacred Scripture that stay in your mind after meditating on Sacred Scripture. Re-read these frequently, you will notice, by doing this, what the Lord is saying to you in His Word.

Remember the Lord loves a simple and humble heart, be very small in spirit, childlike, this doesn’t mean being like a child in your mind, it means having the heart and spirit of a child. Approach the Lord in simplicity, you have no need to make it complicated with words and alphabets. Your heart is what is most pleasing to the Lord.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

So I probably have to give up my love for linguistics and learning writing systems too? I don’t know if I can do that… I’ve already learned the korean, greek, japanese and latin writing systems… do I have to stop all of this just to follow God? When I feel that I should learn these things so I can preach His Holy Word in different tongues? I’m doing all this learning because I love God and I want people around the world to learn to love God.

It’s not complicated. God gave me a gift of learning languages. Now I’m using it to show God’s glory. It ain’t complicated; it’s truly simple.

Mon Dieu, je t’aime. (French)
My God, I love you. (English)
Mi Dios, te quiero. (Spanish)
Watashi no Kami-san wa daisuke. (Japanese)
Aking Diyos, mahal kita (Tagalog)
Mia Dio, mi amas vin. (Esperanto)
jan sewi mi o mi olin e sina. (Toki Pona)
Ku’u Akua, aloha au ia 'oe. (Hawai’ian)

How can you not love the gifts that God gives us?

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

No it is wonderful that you can speak and write in different languages and God gave you this talent for a purpose.

In every single post you mention the journal and your alphabets…this is what I am speaking about in my previous post. Forget about writing your journal in an alphabet and concentrate on developing your spirituality and discerning your call to Vocation. No-one ever brought a soul closer to God because of their ability to write in code!!!

Remaining in my prayers

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Shiann]

springbreeze:

…In every single post you mention the journal and your alphabets…this is what I am speaking about in my previous post. Forget about writing your journal in an alphabet and concentrate on developing your spirituality and discerning your call to Vocation. No-one ever brought a soul closer to God because of their ability to write in code!!! …

I tend to agree with the GENERAL concern here… that we all must be carefull to not let our earthly hobbies and interests outweigh our responsibilities to God.

That said, I’m not sure our young friend is doing that. My goodness he’s still a young man, and exploring many of the wonderfull aspects of the life and talents God gave him. Thank God he has been open to the gentle guidance of the Holy Spirit, and hopefully one day, we will see him as a generous and orothdox leader of the Faithfull. But that is still several years away.

I understand also the general meaning of “no-one ever brought a soul closer to God because of their ability to write in code!!!”, but being able to quickly learn and understand language MAY assist him in his attempt to ‘evangelize’ those who do not know GOD. Or maybe he will wish to be trained in those ancient languages, and assist in translating the true Word in documents not yet discovered. There are many opportunities for one who loves language- and it need not be just a hobby.

Silverwings, I’m glad to hear you have found your home in the Catholic Faith. It will not lead you astray. I pray that you continue your current devotions and that you continue to allow the Holy Spirit to fully work in your life- to whatever vocation is destined for you.

Your sister in Faith.

 

[springbreeze]

Shiann:

I tend to agree with the GENERAL concern here… that we all must be carefull to not let our earthly hobbies and interests outweigh our responsibilities to God.

That said, I’m not sure our young friend is doing that. My goodness he’s still a young man, and exploring many of the wonderfull aspects of the life and talents God gave him. Thank God he has been open to the gentle guidance of the Holy Spirit, and hopefully one day, we will see him as a generous and orothdox leader of the Faithfull. But that is still several years away.

I understand also the general meaning of “no-one ever brought a soul closer to God because of their ability to write in code!!!”, but being able to quickly learn and understand language MAY assist him in his attempt to ‘evangelize’ those who do not know GOD. Or maybe he will wish to be trained in those ancient languages, and assist in translating the true Word in documents not yet discovered. There are many opportunities for one who loves language- and it need not be just a hobby.

Silverwings, I’m glad to hear you have found your home in the Catholic Faith. It will not lead you astray. I pray that you continue your current devotions and that you continue to allow the Holy Spirit to fully work in your life- to whatever vocation is destined for you.

Your sister in Faith.

Dear friend

I was the only one who encouraged this young man apart from yourself. I did not say he should not pursue his languages but I did say stop being so preoccupied with writing things in code.

I think you have misread what I have written

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[springbreeze]

Shiann:

I tend to agree with the GENERAL concern here… that we all must be carefull to not let our earthly hobbies and interests outweigh our responsibilities to God.

That said, I’m not sure our young friend is doing that. My goodness he’s still a young man, and exploring many of the wonderfull aspects of the life and talents God gave him. Thank God he has been open to the gentle guidance of the Holy Spirit, and hopefully one day, we will see him as a generous and orothdox leader of the Faithfull. But that is still several years away.

I understand also the general meaning of “no-one ever brought a soul closer to God because of their ability to write in code!!!”, but being able to quickly learn and understand language MAY assist him in his attempt to ‘evangelize’ those who do not know GOD. Or maybe he will wish to be trained in those ancient languages, and assist in translating the true Word in documents not yet discovered. There are many opportunities for one who loves language- and it need not be just a hobby.

Silverwings, I’m glad to hear you have found your home in the Catholic Faith. It will not lead you astray. I pray that you continue your current devotions and that you continue to allow the Holy Spirit to fully work in your life- to whatever vocation is destined for you.

Your sister in Faith.

Dear friend

I was the only one ( as far as I know) who encouraged this young man in his vocation apart from yourself (sorry if I missed anyone else who did). I did not say he should not pursue his languages but I did say stop being so preoccupied with writing things in code.

I think you have misread what I have written…

Maybe Silverwings , you will not have to worry about writing things in code if you are anything like me

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[romeishome]

Hey, just wanted to drop in and share my thoughts on everything I have read. I myself am a convert to our wonderful faith. In September I will have been in the Church (officially) 2 wonderful years. However, I have been attending the Catholic Church for 4 years now. Prior to that I too was a pentecostal. As a matter of fact I was a 3rd generation pentecostal…born and raised in the A/G so I too know where you have been!

I too feel a call to the priesthood, and I have been going to spiritual direction for 6 months now and I will be entering the seminary in September, however, there are a few things that disturb me as I read your posts. I am disturbed by the fact that you have a severe attachment to this journal and alphabets! This cannot be spiritually healthy for a new convert to preoccupy himself with. Considering your self admitted background of involvement in Wicca.

I think it is wondeful that you have love for languages, but considering your past it would be spiritually beneficial if you detached yourself from all aspects of anything that may even “look like” occultism, or the “dark side”…because unfortunatly “if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck…chances are its a duck!” Another words, if your preoccupation with jounals, and alphabets look too much like occult aids…then chances are that is exactly what they are!

Here is an admonishment from scripture:

**

1 Thessalonians 5:22 says:

"Avoid any semblance of evil."
**
Another words…if it looks like something that a witch, or wiccan, or occultist, or new ager, or ect, ect…may have, or may use, or the like…AVOID IT! We do not want to do anything that even remotely LOOKS LIKE evil…or our old way of life.

So, my advise like the advise of others on this board is to detach yourself from the journal, and alphabets as of right now…and seek God. Your love of language can be an asset if God is truely calling you to the priesthood, so we are not asking you to stop persuing a healthy love of languages…but simply that you meditate on God, and His word…and that you would just allow Him to be Lord over all of your life…

Approach Him like the Little Flower>>Like a Small Child!

I will pray for you as you discern God’s call in your life!

May God bless you and Mary keep you,

Cody

 

[romeishome]

those are just my thoughts on this whole subject…

 

[Shiann]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

I was the only one ( as far as I know) who encouraged this young man in his vocation apart from yourself (sorry if I missed anyone else who did). I did not say he should not pursue his languages but I did say stop being so preoccupied with writing things in code.

I think you have misread what I have written…

Maybe Silverwings , you will not have to worry about writing things in code if you are anything like me

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

You were very loving and caring in your responses to our young friend. It isn’t my intent to admonish you in the least. I was merely using your post as a ‘springboard’ (so to speak) for the GENERAL ideas that his hobby or interests are getting out of hand.

I did open my post with:

I tend to agree with the GENERAL concern here… that we all must be carefull to not let our earthly hobbies and interests outweigh our responsibilities to God.

Which is how I understood your kind comments to mean. But there are others on this board reading this (and posting) who might eluded to the fact that he might be in a ‘phase’ or that his exploration was too intense (not their words, but mine). I was merely posting my perspective on those thoughts.

I apologize for putting your post in my own, but knowing that we both seemed to be on the same page with Silverwings, I thought that my post was clearer.

This is one of the apparent shortfalls of an internet forum

Peace and Blessing on you and yours…

 

[silverwings_88]

Okay okay, I’ll give up the whole ‘wanting to write everything in code’ charade. My interests in languages are quite intense; on my spare time, I even find myself writing English with the Greek alphabet! (phonemically, of course.)

Somehow, on this internet forum, I suddenly feel like a little child, in which all of these adults are trying to guide me. Hah, all I really want to do is use my talents in writing and language to God. I mean, the only reason why I desire to learn languages anymore is to preach the Holy Scriptures!

But I still want to keep a journal, so I can write about God. So many times I’ve kept a diary, writing on MY personal thoughts. Now I want to write His thoughts on me. But because I want to be able to conceal it so no one can read it, it is my natural inclination to try to make in unreadable. I might as well learn a remote language and use that as my diary language! But I guess that’s sort of greedy of me… sigh I want to be able to write about God’s greatness in my life and His powerful might, and yet I don’t want anyone to read it! How greedy of me!

I guess that is the main root for the reason of my will to conceal my writing. Writing a book to me is tedious, because it is for the people. Writing a diary to me is not, because it is more of a self-reflection, and there is no censoring (only for the Devil) or length limit (no censoring when I talk about the Devil’s darkness!).

 

[romeishome]

I am so sorry that you feel as though there are all of these adults that are trying to guide you, but maybe you should listen a bit…because I assure you at 16 you do not have it all figured out! I really am praying that God continue to bless you and that if He is calling you that He would make a way for you to be the best priest you can be!

Now, for the secret stuff…this is a terrible concern for me!

Just for the simple fact, people that have a preoccupation with secrets, or keeping things secret, ect put themselves in a posititon where they are held in suspicion constantly. No, I am not saying that it is wrong to have private thing between you and God, or between you and your family, or between you and a friend…but what I am saying is creating a “code” to write about God, so that you can keep those thoughts secret is a little disturbing and even quite suspicious! Considering your past religious experience and all.

silverwings_88:

But I still want to keep a journal, so I can write about God. So many times I’ve kept a diary, writing on MY personal thoughts. Now I want to write His thoughts on me. But because I want to be able to conceal it so no one can read it…

One would have to question why? Why do you want to conceal it? Why wouldn’t you want everyone to know what you feel about God???

silverwings_88:

it is my natural inclination to try to make in unreadable.

It is your natural inclination to make it unreadable??? Why is this? This sounds like this inclination could be a sign from your past religious life of occultic secrecy and conjuration that you are still holding on to some of that.

silverwings_88:

I might as well learn a remote language and use that as my diary language! But I guess that’s sort of greedy of me… sigh I want to be able to write about God’s greatness in my life and His powerful might, and yet I don’t want anyone to read it! How greedy of me!

I just can’t see why you would want to encode this journal if all that is going to be in it is the greatness, and power of God??? It does not make sense, it seems as though there is another motive.

silverwings_88:

I guess that is the main root for the reason of my will to conceal my writing.

Silverwings, I just don’t buy it! I don’t believe that the only reason you want to encode your journal is because you are greedy? Encoding writing seems very suspicious, and the roots for wanting to do so seem very diabolical! If you want to keep your thoughts private…that is fine…put’em on a computer that password protected…lock your writings away…but encoding with different languages and the such…given your background seems a little suspicious, and the person that has a preoccupation with secrets is going to naturally be put in a light of suspicion.

Here is some food for thought:

The apostles wrote things about God…and alot of what they wrote made it into the scripture, for our benefit! What if they would have had this same preoccupation with secrets as well, and wanted to encode their writings? If you have a talent for writing use it…if you have a talent for language use it…but I am just suspicious of encoded languages…sounds too much like the occult.

God Bless those are my thoughts!

Cody