Sin or No Sin?

[Other_Eric]

3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11"No one, sir," she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” (John chapter 6)

Romans 2:1

First of all, Other Eric,

I don’t mind taking you on for the sake of Jennifer,

she does not owe you an answer to her marriage or her husband, and who are you to say those things about her life?

Let me open the bible, since maybe you need to read yours, and remember this:

The Woman caught in Adultery, John, 8, go read it,

“Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her”.

So, you know what, take your stone, and go home, that is what I really despise about some so called Catholics, their willingness to throw their stones,

What would Jesus do, just love her, which He already does.

Thanks, Ginger2,

I forgot to add, because I was so mad, that he wanted her dead, that he thought that would be better for her family, then alive, so all the rules could be followed. Great, dead mom, four kids without a mom, messed up dad.

What Christian love on this board!

It is instructive that at no point in the parable that you both quote does Jesus ever excuse the sin of the woman caught in adultery. Indeed, He implicitly calls it for what it is, sin, in His command for the woman to leave her life of sin. He does not fail to call the woman’s offense a violation of the law. At no point does Jesus affirm any supposed mitigating circumstances nor try to minimize the gravity of what the woman did.

Therefore, the Christ-like example is exactly the one I have followed here. There can be no true repentance and no effort can be made to leave sin behind if one does not acknowledge the presence of sin in the first place. Let’s dispense with providing the OP excuses for evil, help her to recognize that what she did was indeed sinful, and then assist her in leaving this life of sin just as Christ commands in your parable.

Moreover, let’s recognize what we are doing in constantly assuring ourselves that if the OP did not sterilize herself she would necessarily become pregnant and die. It is to imply that either the OP, her husband or both have absolutely no self control and are effectively slaves to their impulses. This is insulting on its face for a variety of reasons. Further, if we are going to say that the husband is so “messed up” that it would be tragic in the extreme if the children were left to be raised by him alone, then prudentially, the woman ought to be considering divorce to remove the children from the control of a corrupting influence.

 

[JenniferMoon]

Wow…I’ll be wary from further on of any posts by Eric. I recognize the words of the enemy when I see them. Thank God for his grace, forgiveness and healing power. Amen.

I do plan to go to confession and reconcilliation and not look back at this sin. Many of you were so kind, even when stating truths you thought might hurt me, and I do appreciate that!

 

[monkey6]

Let me just say that I was premature to put it that her husband is “messed up” to raise their children, but for you to say that death would better for their family, who do YOU, think you are?

I was only going in the info, that OP gave in the first place, which is her story, in her words, not mine.

It that case, not up to ME to judge HER, I could only offer advice, since faced with similar things in my own life, which I am not sure that YOU could face, I think from YOUR screen name being a man, She asked, I answered. End of story.

Let me say this to you, Jesus died for all of sins, on the Cross, I am not sure why you think some sins are to be forgiven and others not. I know that is not up to me. I truly believe she went to the right person, a priest, and he told her what to do, that is in the past, and now she can only live for now, and the future.

 

[SeekerJen]

Wow…I’ll be wary from further on of any posts by Eric. I recognize the words of the enemy when I see them. Thank God for his grace, forgiveness and healing power. Amen.

I do plan to go to confession and reconcilliation and not look back at this sin. Many of you were so kind, even when stating truths you thought might hurt me, and I do appreciate that!

Eric’s public profile clearly states that he is a lapsed Catholic; based on that and the nature of the vast majority of his posts, I choose not to place much value on his opinion regarding most matters of faith. I respect his right to his opinion, but it has no bearing on my faith life. It might benefit you to take a similar approach rather than allowing his words to hurt you.

Topic: I think you will feel so much better after confession. I agree with some of the other posters that sterilization is objectively sinful, but given the nature of the advice from your priest and the various other serious situations in your life at the time, I doubt seriously whether yours met all the criteria for mortal sin. God bless you, and I hope you receive peace and healing at your confession.

 

[JenniferMoon]

Eric’s public profile clearly states that he is a lapsed Catholic; based on that and the nature of the vast majority of his posts, I choose not to place much value on his opinion regarding most matters of faith. I respect his right to his opinion, but it has no bearing on my faith life. It might benefit you to take a similar approach rather than allowing his words to hurt you.

Topic: I think you will feel so much better after confession. I agree with some of the other posters that sterilization is objectively sinful, but given the nature of the advice from your priest and the various other serious situations in your life at the time, I doubt seriously whether yours met all the criteria for mortal sin. God bless you, and I hope you receive peace and healing at your confession

Okay, gotcha! I guess I won’t be needing to make that trip to Horsehair Shirts "N Instruments Of Self-Flagellation afterall. Lol.

And yes, confession it is.

 

[Ginger2]

Good luck, Jennifer. I look forward to meeting you in heaven where we can share all the things God has done for us thru the good and the bad times.

other eric, Good luck to you, also. And God Bless you.

 

[mattkubes]

I hate to say it, but I don’t see anything in Eric’s posts that rang in as being false (important: I’m not saying that it wasn’t a little blunt). Especially not something that would come from “the enemy”! Can objective truth be explained with a little more compassion? Well, yes. Can that compassion sometimes hinder someone’s expression of the truth or lead to sugar coating things? I would argue yes for that as well.

Eric merely pointed out that the ideal of the two options would have been to “live as brother and sister” and take up your Cross with Christ. But that’s not what happened and so I will agree that we shouldn’t focus on the past! Mind you we have to remember that sometimes we are obliged to speak the Truth to our brothers and sisters…especially when they ask for our opinions on a public forum

In any event, I’m glad to see that you’ve made up your mind Jennifer and that you’re on the road to finding peace! And just in case anyone tries to tell you otherwise, you’re under no obligation to reverse the surgery…just offer it up to God’s infinite mercy!

 

[JenniferMoon]

My reference was to the enemy goes along the lines that ‘even the devil can use scripture for his own purposes’, so to speak. I didn’t argue the truth of what Eric said. I can clearly see tho that his posts are lacking love and compassion and filled with a certain disdain and spitefulness that one identifies with the enemy. Its certainly not the ‘voice’ of Christ~ *the truth *told with compassion and hope for a closer relationship with Him. I wasn’t getting that at all, as I was from the majority of those who got the same message through while doing so with compassion, kindness and respect.

He called me “nothing more than his tawdry sexual receptacle”. Those are not the words of a man with Christ in his heart…

 

[Joya]

In your circumstances, what else could you have done?

I agree with the teaching on contraception but I think that you had no other choice but to have your tubes tied.

It’s easy for people here to say that you comitted a sin, when they aren’t the ones risking their lives. You did the best thing for your family. It would be a sin to get pregnant knowing that it could kill you - you have to think of your children. Can you imagine how they would feel if they lost you?

You followed the advice of your Priest. I think the things he told you were right. You didn’t have the surgery to PREVENT life, you had it to SAVE your life out of love for your family. I think that’s the most important thing to remember.

AMEN! Beautifully written post. As a mother who has already had 2 c-sections and worries about her health in terms of future pregnancies, I understand what Jennifer is going through. Jennifer, I hope the kind and sincere words of Dempsey1919 will bring you peace. Please do not feel guilty about this. Your priest advised you well. Be the best mother you can to your children and know that God is loving and merciful. He knows the agony you’ve experienced. God bless you in your healing.

 

[KathleenElsie]

The Church teaches that artificial birth control, including sterilization, is never a moral option, even in cases of concern for the mother’s health. Unfortunately, your priest did not tell you this. So, while the action was inherently sinful, I doubt this was a mortal sin on your part (you lacked the knowledge necessary for committing mortal sin). You are free to continue receiving communion, given that only mortal sin removes that right. I might suggest finding another confessor who is more likely to tell you the truth about what the Church teaches, even when that teaching is tough. As for what I would have done - if I had the same information you had, I likely would have done exactly what you did.

MJ

Please remember that in some cases the intent was not the prevention of a pregnancy but the removal of a diseased body part. Two very different situations. The intent is what makes the difference between a sin or not.

 

[Pious_Mat]

A mortal sin requires certain prerequisites:

It must be a grave matter.
It must be committed with the full knowledge of the sinner.
It is committed with the deliberate consent of the sinner.

That given, I’m not sure if this qualifies as a mortal sin, since you were not fully aware that this was wrong.

All things considered, I think we ought to get a priest to weigh in on this.