Sin to Disagree with The Pope?

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You need to take this for what it’s worth.

There are also many different songs within the “Rock” genre. There are some which are clearly satanic or anti-Christian.

And, there are some which are merely expression or relaxing. For instance, music by…
-The Allman Brothers Band
-U2
-The Eagles
-Eric Clapton

While I’d argue that the following artists may be…
-Marilyn Manson
-Black Sabbath

If you go back and look at some of the history of some artists, you’ll find some interconnections between having “lots of women”, “sex”, “drugs”, etc…, and… the rock artists. You should know where I’m going with this.

Listen to the music you like with a clear conscience, but do not stoop to the levels of some of the things mentioned in the music. I try to keep my rock clean.
 
bpbasilphx said:
The Pope is infallible ONLY under certain strictly defined conditions…For example, I disagree with things he has said about the Harry Potter series…The pope’s infallibility is certainly not retroactive to things he might have said before elevation to the Roman see.
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Whether his concerns about Harry Potter are infallible or not, I don’t know. But they do pertain to faith. So I think we should be open to what he has to say. I read an article awhile back discussing his critique. If I can find it, I’ll post it. I have not read the series myself. And I couldn’t stay awake at the movie (whichever one it was I have no idea). But my kids have read several if not all of the volumes:o . One of his main concerns, from what I remember, is the way the series suggests that witchcraft can be used for good. Well right off the bat, witchcraft is evil (and dangerous). And it is a basic principle of Catholic morality that you can’t use evil means to achieve a good result. I tried to discuss this with my college age daughter and she rolled her eyes and said “it’s fiction Dad.” I know it’s fiction. That doesn’t exactly mean it’s harmless. I could probably read it myself, knowing the pitfalls, and come out relatively unscathed (if I could stay awake). But millions of kids around the world have read it. And my bet is few of them have read the Pope’s critique. Most kids will probably take my daughter’s attitude. “It’s fiction. Get over it.” But the idea that evil means can be used to obtain a good end is insidious. Witchcraft is not fun. And it’s never OK to use it for a good purpose. And the Pope is doing his job when he points that out. And it’s not like the only kids who’ve read it are good Catholic kids.
 
To my understanding there are three levels of teachings. One is infallible teachings such as the doctrine of the Immacuate Conception. Catholics are required to accept this teaching.

Next are the nonfallible teachings where it is understood that it has always been the teaching of the church. An example would be the issue of abortion where the Church has always taught it is morally wrong and intrinsically evil.

Finally there are the opinions of the Pope and some example would be JPII’s opinion on the death penalty or as you state, Ratzinger’s opinion of Rock and Roll. Catholics should give these teachings serious consideration in forming their own opinions bur are free to agree or disagree.

So the short answer is no, it is not a sin to disagree.
 
wjp984 said:
To my understanding there are three levels of teachings. One is infallible teachings such as the doctrine of the Immacuate Conception. Catholics are required to accept this teaching.

Next are the nonfallible teachings where it is understood that it has always been the teaching of the church. An example would be the issue of abortion where the Church has always taught it is morally wrong and intrinsically evil.

Finally there are the opinions of the Pope and some example would be JPII’s opinion on the death penalty or as you state, Ratzinger’s opinion of Rock and Roll. Catholics should give these teachings serious consideration in forming their own opinions bur are free to agree or disagree.

So the short answer is no, it is not a sin to disagree.
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I didn’t know that, Thanks for your explanation,
 
The pope is only infallible when speaking ex cathedra, speaking of church doctrine. If he tells me that the Texans will win 12 games this year and they only win 5 it just means he is as sad a fan as I am.

Now Cardinal Ratzinger did single out some groups that I really do like such as Pink Floyd, the Rolling Stones and The Eagles. I still like them but I do think twice about playing them alot around my young children since after all Cardinal Ratzinger was head of the Holy Office (I know,I know! I just can’t remember the real name of it now Congregations for the Doctrines of the Faith?)
 
There is witchcraft in the Narnia series yet I don’t know a single Catholic kid that wasn’t given a copy of the Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe.

I’m sorry but Harry Potter is not dangerous. I read the whole series multiple times and I have no desire to go out into the world and practice magic. I doubt God minds if we use our imaginations for creative purposes. Lord of the Rings is another good example.
 
AaronK88 said:
There is witchcraft in the Narnia series yet I don’t know a single Catholic kid that wasn’t given a copy of the Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe.

I’m sorry but Harry Potter is not dangerous. I read the whole series multiple times and I have no desire to go out into the world and practice magic. I doubt God minds if we use our imaginations for creative purposes. Lord of the Rings is another good example.
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I agree 👍 ) . Here is a news site talking about the church oking Harry Potter. guardian.co.uk/film/2003/feb/04/harrypotter.harrypotter
 
wjp984 said:
To my understanding there are three levels of teachings. One is infallible teachings such as the doctrine of the Immacuate Conception. Catholics are required to accept this teaching.

Next are the nonfallible teachings where it is understood that it has always been the teaching of the church. An example would be the issue of abortion where the Church has always taught it is morally wrong and intrinsically evil.

Finally there are the opinions of the Pope and some example would be JPII’s opinion on the death penalty or as you state, Ratzinger’s opinion of Rock and Roll. Catholics should give these teachings serious consideration in forming their own opinions bur are free to agree or disagree.

So the short answer is no, it is not a sin to disagree.
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This is a well written explanation.
I have not read the Pope’s newest book about Jesus.
I understand he even assures people that they may choose to disagree with what he has written in his book.
 
AaronK88 said:
There is witchcraft in the Narnia series yet I don’t know a single Catholic kid that wasn’t given a copy of the Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe.

I’m sorry but Harry Potter is not dangerous. I read the whole series multiple times and I have no desire to go out into the world and practice magic. I doubt God minds if we use our imaginations for creative purposes. Lord of the Rings is another good example.
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Witchcraft isn’t portrayed as being used for good purposes in Narnia or Lord of the Rings. Harry Potter is somewhat unique in that.
 
Now Cardinal Ratzinger did single out some groups that I really do like such as Pink Floyd, the Rolling Stones and The Eagles. I still like them but I do think twice about playing them alot around my young children since after all Cardinal Ratzinger was head of the Holy Office (I know,I know! I just can’t remember the real name of it now Congregations for the Doctrines of the Faith?)
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Can anyone find the quote where Cardinal Ratzinger said this?
 
Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil?

:rotfl:

They’ll probably say the same thing about B. B. King once he’s dead.

Johnson was an extraordinary bluesman. Legends have sprung up about him. From the little I know about Johnson, he didn’t exactly live an exemplary life.

Neither did Mozart.

They both left us wonderful music!

Now 'scuse me while I go work on my magnum opus - the “I missed Mass on Sunday, what’s Father gonna say?” blues.

Naw… honest, I was sick. Still am, but better.

God bless us all, including Robert Johnson and BB King,

Ruthie
 
It is not a sin to disagree with the pope unless it is a matter of Church doctrine, Church dogmas, or he has invoked infalliability. Now, having said that, it would be unwise to discard something which Cardinal Ratzinger had published prior to being made Pope. He and Pope John Paul II worked very closely together, and he was in many ways the former Pope’s right-hand man.

Music is the language of love and as such it has the power to move us tremendously. But, as with sex, that language can be distorted and turned into something it was never intended to be. Listen to Van Halen. Listen to the words. How much real love is present there and consider whether what you are listening to is helping you grow closer to Christ or is it leading you further away? Just listing a few of the popular Van Halen tunes: Hot for Teacher, Drop Dead Legs, Bound for Glory…

There’s nothing wrong with playing electric guitar. There’s nothing wrong with using your gifts to sing praise and worship to the God who made you. God loves an infinite variety of sounds, and He delights in innovation. What is wrong is writing, singing, or playing music in a way that leads people to sin against God, encouraging them to do things or to think in ways that would harm their soul.
 
commander9225 said:
I have been a huge rock and roll fan for many years. I can play electric guitar quite well and it is one of my great loves in life. I am very religious, but until recently never saw anything wrong with listening to rock and being a good Catholic. I recently read something Cardinal Ratzinger wrote about rock and roll before he became pope. I disagree with it on many levels, because I believe there is a lot of good rock music. Im terrified now, however, because I feel like if i listen to a little Van Halen, I’ve somehow committed an act of schism. I don’t think I agree with the Pope, but I want to know; is it a sin to disagree with him on this matter?
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If the Pope comes out with a defining statement declaring Rock and Roll to be an inherently immoral genre of music in an official documetn marked for Church wide promulgation or makes an ex cathedra statement banning listening to it, then I’d say you’re in trouble. But as far as I am aware you are allowed to disagree with the Pope on issues of personal taste.
 
Starwynd said:
Sorry, but rock and roll is largely influenced by Satan and should be avoided at all costs.

The most influential man on the blues is Robert Leroy Johnson. It is said that he sold his soul to the devil so he could be a highly skilled blues player. Many rock and roll artists, including and Led Zepplin, say their work is influenced by his.

So it’s best not to listen to any.
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And some denominations say it is sinful to dance, or to drink (even in moderation) alcohol. I think any type of music could be an occasion of sin if one gives in to it, or uses it for sinful purposes. Tell me Chopin’s Claire de Lune doesn’t inspire fantasies?
 
A Catholic can faithfully disagree with:
  1. a personal opinion of the Pope
  2. a decision of the temporal order (a prudential judgment)
  3. to a limited extent, a teaching of the ordinary Magisterium
A Catholic cannot faithfully disagree with:
  1. any infallible teaching, whether taught by a Pope, a Council, or the Universal Magisterium
  2. the teachings of the ordinary Magisterium as a set, and any teachings of the ordinary Magisterium that are essential for salvation or are indispensible to any infallible teaching
  3. the temporal decisions of the Church as a whole
 
Ron_Conte said:
A Catholic can faithfully disagree with:
  1. a personal opinion of the Pope
  2. a decision of the temporal order (a prudential judgment)
  3. to a limited extent, a teaching of the ordinary Magisterium
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Exactly, so when he says that the Astros will win the penant he is just as wrong as I am.😦
 
I think the book’s context makes it clear what Cardinal Ratzinger referred to, and that would be rock concerts whose intent was to bring out the animalistic instincts of the listeners, and not all rock music is like that, which is probably why “rock” is enclosed in quotes at least once in that section of the book.
 
I would agree that rock music is not inherently sinful, but I would argue that rock carries more risks for leading one astray than do most other genres. Though I suppose the lyrics of rap/hip-hop and dance-pop music are, on the average, just as bad or worse these days, still, the origins and development of rock music are deeply tied in with the desire to release inhibitions and challenge conventions (“challenging conventions” often, though not always, meaning rejecting moral standards).

Cardinal Ratzinger’s remarks seemed aimed specifically at the experience of certain rock concerts, where extremely loud music, sensory overload and a communal experience lead to a kind of pseudo-spiritual experience, if you will a sort of spiritual pornography, in which some of the exhiliaration and inner sensation that should be evoked by worship are instead stimulated by secular entertainment. This is not good when the entertainment is morally neutral, and it is very bad when the material is morally harmful.

I think about this very seriously, since I have a ten year old son who is learning guitar and is fascinated by rock music; trying to help him steer around the rocks without being too controlling is a constant challenge.
 
So can one Pope contradict another Pope’s teaching and say that this Pope is wrong and this is how it should be?
 
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