Sin to watch a video the wife and I made?

[teachccd]

I’ll jump in here as a near 40-year-old guy, married for a little over a year to a light of a woman he hardly deserves, who used to purse lustful desires in his pre-married/pre-Christian life (which essentially were the decades of my 20s and 30s).

The videotaping of a sex act between the OP and his wife degrades his wife.

The playback of said video holds no piety whatsoever and degrades his wife.

I don’t need to read it in sacred scripture or the Catechism to know this truth. It is a deeply held conviction of the heart, a heart profoundly changed for the better once I availed myself to Jesus Christ.

I would urge the OP to delete the digital video file and pray intently on the matter.

How do you know that his wife didn’t set up the camera? Be careful when jumping to conclusions…

 

[opdsgt]

I didn’t articulate my point well enough.

It’s degrading irrespective of who set the camera up.

The act degrades them both, holds no piety whatsoever, and is the foundation for nothing but trouble IMO.

 

[LovedForever]

I didn’t articulate my point well enough.

It’s degrading irrespective of who set the camera up.

The act degrades them both, holds no piety whatsoever, and is the foundation for nothing but trouble IMO.

You fail to say “why” it is degrading.

It is no more “degrading”, when mutually agreed upon by the couple as a tool of foreplay, than the husband admiring his naked wife and becoming aroused by her during the foreplay stage leading up to making love!

You cannot speak to this husband and wife’s purpose. You cannot “assume” the purpose is nothing but lust.

 

[opdsgt]

I know what a banana tastes like, yet I’d be hard pressed to describe the taste to someone else, so I may not be able to articulate why it’s degrading to you other than to suggest it smacks of degradation on its face.

Ask yourself: is it an act of piety, with a religious devotion and reverence to God?

In the final analysis, you don’t have to agree with my position, but I certainly can speak to the issue. The OP made a conscious decision to post his antics on a public internet discussion forum, after all.

 

[teachccd]

I know what a banana tastes like, yet I’d be hard pressed to describe the taste to someone else, so I may not be able to articulate why it’s degrading to you other than to suggest it smacks of degradation on its face.

Ask yourself: is it an act of piety, with a religious devotion and reverence to God?

In the final analysis, you don’t have to agree with my position, but I certainly can speak to the issue. The OP made a conscious decision to post his antics on a public internet discussion forum, after all.

You have every right to your opinion. That’s really what these forums are all about. IMHO I cannot see how your “just feeling” that this is sinful makes it so. You ask: is it and act of piety, with a religious devotion and reverence to God?

Well then I would have to ask: where do you draw the line as to what a husband and wife are allowed to do during lovemaking? Is a wife who wears sexy lingerie for her husband not pious and irreverent?

No one has ever answered my question yet. Can a husband and wife view themselves in a mirror while lovemaking? Would this show a lack of devotion? I feel that we are really pegging the conservative pendulum. That’s my opinion and it’s just as good as anyone’s. God Bless…

 

[Chancellare]

This is where you make your error. Assuming that the personal film of the spouses would ONLY be used to focus the mind on “pleasure apart from the sanctity of the act.” You cannot assume this and you have now ruled out ANY foreplay.
Foreplay is by definition acts LEADING UP TO the “sanctity of the act.”

Neither can you asume that people watching themselves having sex will not later use it outside of the marital act like any other porn material. It’s completely different from other forms of foreplay which involves physical contact prior to marital act.

 

[Chancellare]

You fail to say “why” it is degrading.
You cannot speak to this husband and wife’s purpose. You cannot “assume” the purpose is nothing but lust.

Neither can you assume there is no lust wen somebody is watching himself on video having sex just like any other porn material.

 

[opdsgt]

teach, I’m not so much of a prude that I would suggest you have to turn the lights out in the bedroom in order to ensure sexual piety, so I don’t think the visual aspect of sex is, in and of itself, wrong. I therefore don’t think gazing into a mirror during lovemaking is inherently evil, but I just cannot make the leap from that sort of thing to videotaping.

The OP posted here for one of two reasons: to provoke alot of controversy (read: he’s a troll) or to ask what he thought was a legitimate question of the forumites in the interest of hearing mass opinion. I give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter… and I’d be a liar were I to provide something other than what I see as the truth when I render my view.

The reason I think it’s wrong was articulated in my first post in this thread: it’s simply a conviction of the heart. I’m not putting a camera up my wife’s rear end because I have an innate conviction that it’s degrading to women.

Cheers,

Jeff

 

[Chancellare]

teach, I’m not so much of a prude that I would suggest you have to turn the lights out in the bedroom in order to ensure sexual piety, so I don’t think the visual aspect of sex is, in and of itself, wrong. I therefore don’t think gazing into a mirror during lovemaking is inherently evil, but I just cannot make the leap from that sort of thing to videotaping.

The OP posted here for one of two reasons: to provoke alot of controversy (read: he’s a troll) or to ask what he thought was a legitimate question of the forumites in the interest of hearing mass opinion. I give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter… and I’d be a liar were I to provide something other than what I see as the truth when I render my view.

The reason I think it’s wrong was articulated in my first post in this thread: it’s simply a conviction of the heart. I’m not putting a camera up my wife’s rear end because I have an innate conviction that it’s degrading to women.

Cheers,

Jeff

Jeff, You’re probably right about trolls here.

Just because videotaping one’s own sex act did not “technically” qualify as a sin does not make it right.

The Jews used a similar argument to trap Jesus when they asked him why divorce is bad when it was allowed by Mosaic Law. His answer: it’s because of the hardness of their hearts that Moses allowed them, not because it was the right thing to do.

This is the same with video taping.

 

[teachccd]

I believe that the horse had died on this one…

 

[LovedForever]

Neither can you assume there is no lust wen somebody is watching himself on video having sex just like any other porn material.

You fail to understand just what “porn” is and WHY it is wrong.
The ONLY purpose for viewing ANONYMOUS men and women in porn material is: Lust.

A husband however, CAN look at his naked wife, become aroused by her (as God designed it) and it is NOT “lust.” She is not “anonymous.” She is his beloved and he hers.
There is a huge distinction - one you fail to make.

Again - the motivation behind what a husband and wife do is THEIR business and they alone know where it falls in the “love” vs “lust” scale.
No one else can make that judgement.
To view each other making love whether in person, photograph or video - is not in and of itself sinful.
As with ANYTHING - it “could” be sinful if your motivations are not pure.

The mistake made here is categorizing this particular scenario as “intrinsically” evil and sinful - and it is not.
Because something has the “potential” to be such does not constitute it as such. Much to the chagrin of some.

 

[teachccd]

You fail to understand just what “porn” is and WHY it is wrong.
The ONLY purpose for viewing ANONYMOUS men and women in porn material is: Lust.

A husband however, CAN look at his naked wife, become aroused by her (as God designed it) and it is NOT “lust.” She is not “anonymous.” She is his beloved and he hers.
There is a huge distinction - one you fail to make.

Again - the motivation behind what a husband and wife do is THEIR business and they alone know where it falls in the “love” vs “lust” scale.
No one else can make that judgement.
To view each other making love whether in person, photograph or video - is not in and of itself sinful.
As with ANYTHING - it “could” be sinful if your motivations are not pure.

The mistake made here is categorizing this particular scenario as “intrinsically” evil and sinful - and it is not.
Because something has the “potential” to be such does not constitute it as such. Much to the chagrin of some.

You are so right. I cannot believe the hang-ups on this thread. I guess unless it’s just get down to business, missionary position only it’s a mortal sin. Paleeeze…:whacky:

This is still a dead horse and the OP fell asleep-- upset I might add (see post #55)…

 

[distracted]

For what purpose do you view this video? Is it for personal stumulus and gratification for either you or your wife? Is it to remind you of an intimate moment when you are separated such as when one of you is on a business trip? Is it to help “jump-start” things on some evenings? Does your wife even know you made it?

None of these are legitimate reasons. Frankly, I cannot think of asingle morally neutral, let alone, good, reason to continue to posses or view this material. Of course, there is always the danger that it may get out of your control.

Does this video, in and of itself, glorify God?

The marital act is not for entertainment. It is for procreation, the strengthening of the marital bond and legitmate self-donating pleasure. It is not a spectator sport, even if you are watching yourself.

Personally, I believe making this video almost certainly constitutes a grave evil. Watching it would also a grave sin. Do the ethical and moral thing, destroy it and do not make another.

Additionally, I believe that trying to dissect moral teachings and looking for a loophole, as appears to be the case here, is not a way that will help you to Heaven, or even Purgatory for that matter. Beyond that, it certainly is a violation of chastity.

Finally, I have the feeling that this is a “set-up” question.

 

[distracted]

distracted:
i totally agree with this & other “negative” responses. What went through my mind (& i haven’t read all the posts yet, so someone may have said this?): How could you be natural & in the right spirit while a camera is on you??
I feel this is gravely wrong…
If a video exists, there is always the chance of 3rd parties viewing it…

 

[distracted]

Wow… you folks are blowing me away!

I’m just in the process of joining the Catholic church. Just started looking at it 2 months ago.

I haven’t really delved into the whole “sexual morality” issue yet, but from some of the things I’ve read, it looks like a lot of you believe that sex is intended mainly for reproduction and not so much for enjoyment. Did I understand this correctly?

Hence a few questions:
When I was a Baptist, I got a vasectomy (9 years ago). Baptists don’t consider this to be wrong.

Is this something that I need to confess in my “first confession”?
Is this something that I should get reversed? (we already have 3 children - I’m 42, just in case that makes any difference)
If sex is mainly for reproduction, what is the explanation for NFP? Isn’t that cheating? (sorry… some of these questions are probably pretty dumb… I’m an ultra-green :bounce: newbie!!)

I’d really appreciate it if someone could give me the “condensed party line” about this whole “sex in marriage” thing.

Thanks!
Tom

even though u were Baptist at the time of the vasectomy, you still should confess it to a priest… I’m pretty sure that is the Church’s position. I mean, someone could commit fornication & decline 2 confess it because he/she doesn’t believe it was wrong, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is a sin…

 

[distracted]

Great post! You make a very important point: that any form of foreplay (mutually agreed upon) between husband and wife is acceptable as long as the husband completes inside his wife. The reality is that God made each and every one of us an “individual” with personal likes and dislikes - even when it comes to foreplay. What might arouse one - may not do anything for another.
As long as there is nothing intrinsically “sinful” involved (such as porn with other actors etc.) then it is private between husband and wife.

One can “pervert” a kiss if they wanted to.
However no one would consider a “kiss” sinful in and of itself.
It depends on your intention toward the one being kissed…

So a private photo or film of spouses with each other can be tastefully used between them and it would not be “sinful.”
THAT part - is up to them.

i don’t agree & the other posts already say my reasons why… except that i haven’t read a post yet that addresses the issue of: wouldn’t it be weird to know a camera is going?? That seems like something that would make the act very unnatural… & therefore, ungodly.
The video could be found… I believe it is morally wrong… & if you have to make videos to get into the mood or whatever, something is WRONG.

 

[distracted]

Those are sacred words… How does that take away from the sanctity of the person?? Oral sex is approved by ALL of my confessors as foreplay as long as it leads to intercourse. Is that activity taking away from the sanctity of the person if mutually agreed upon? Maybe I just love my spouse too much to see any act of love making as “dirty” or unsanctifying.

And by the way, you never videotaped a family Thanksgiving meal to view later and feel good about the event? Many people I know video tape many personal events: birthday parties, sporting events, weddings, etc. It seems like we are hung up on sex and are so rigid. Don’t do this and don’t do that. If it is procreative and conjugal then it’s sacred. And you are 100% right, we are NOT in the fifth century anymore.

 

[distracted]

distracted:
I believe when there is a question of whether some sexual act is right or wrong, we should “err” on the side of extreme caution - in other words: Prudence.
Would it really be such a great sacrifice NOT to videotape yourselves? If it is, something is just not right… in the relationship.
Videotaping a Thanksgiving dinner and videotaping sex is 2 different things.
Sometimes we humans (b4 meditating on the subject) feel that some sexual act or another we think about doing is not wrong or sinful (4 example: self-gratification seems “natural” to most people, initially) but then, when the act is consummated… different feelings set in…
I believe that if a person has a question about this kind of thing, he/she should PRAY about it first - before making such a video… I just wonder how many such videos would exist if the couple 1st agreed 2 pray the rosary together for 1/2 hour or so before they planned 2 do it??

 

[distracted]

One who loves gun is more likely to shoot than another who does not. Similarly, going to a whore house will bring you closer to fornication more than another who does not. I don’t have to prove this argument to say that filiming the sex act is similar to this. The whole argument is also the same in proving the contraception mentality as the generator of sexual sins. The whole economy of sin rests on the infrastructure prior to actual commitment of the act. When the mind is focused on pleasure apart from the sanctity of the act, the only next step is the commssion of the sin.

The whole porn industry depends on the argument that the film itself is not sinful.

Yes, we can prove that filming the act for own use is not sin but I would not recommend it toa friend whom I care for to go to heaven.

Those who insist that its not a sin, good for you.

i agree & greatly appreciate the comments you make. The only thing i don’t fully agree with is when u say its not a sin or that maybe its not… I believe it is. I believe the whole motive for wanting to create such a video is, well, disordered, if nothing else… I feel it indicates something is “lacking” in the relationship. Am i one of the few who sees things this way?

 

[Chancellare]

i agree & greatly appreciate the comments you make. The only thing i don’t fully agree with is when u say its not a sin or that maybe its not… I believe it is. I believe the whole motive for wanting to create such a video is, well, disordered, if nothing else… I feel it indicates something is “lacking” in the relationship. Am i one of the few who sees things this way?

Distracted,
I believe I was just stating it for argument purposes. The real interpreter whether it is or is not is the Church. In these days of “under-formed” consciences, it is difficult to put one’s own judgment on others, as what other posters in this site would like to argue.
I agree with you that creating the video for any purpose is by itself disordered. But the other posters are using this site to find a technical loop hole to justify this. But not all can accept the difference between disordered tastes and purity of heart.
The first relies on finding a loop hole in the rule and the ethics of our actions. But the problem there is that if the desire of the heart is disordered, no rule can save him. As JPII said, it is not enough to fulfill the rules of ethics but to put our ethos (our real heart’s desire) in alignment with the will of God. This way, we will not be subject to the law of ethics because our heart’s desires are already aligned with God’s. This is the root cause of why people sin.