Sin vs. Psychology

[blackforest]

Thanks to scientific progress and medical advances, we now know so much more about human psychology than our Church forebears did centuries ago. Where “gluttony” was once branded a simple sin, today we know a lot more about the complex psychology and physiology of its underlying causes, such as addiction and eating disorders. Suicide used to be considered a straight ticket down in a hand-basket, but our modern understanding of depression as a mental illness has clouded that idea. A man could sinfully pick fights at bars until he goes on medication for bipolar disorder, making him a calmer and more agreeable person. A child with ADHD sins by throwing fits and cussing at her teacher until she’s undergone treatment and therapy. A woman who barely gets off the couch to care for her family could be accused of the sin of sloth, or she could just be suffering from debilitating clinical depression. Even a serial killer could have the mental illness of sociopathy.

Obviously, mentally healthy people make bad choices that should rightfully land them in the confessional. How (else) has our evolving understanding of mental health and mental illness altered our understanding of sin? Other examples?

 

[humbleseeker]

Personally, I think the Church has become more compassionate towards sinners as we learn more about mental health. Mental illness distorts the ability to reason and have free will. The Church teaches that without free will a person cannot committ a mortal sin even if the action involves grave matter. Suicide, as you point out, is a good example. It is no longer condemned out of hand, as we are assured that God judges the heart and circumstances of every sinner rightly and we can rely on his mercy.

 

[JamalChristophr]

I have ADD, but most people will never know it. They’ll just observe outward appearances and behavior. We humans are all a rather judgmental lot, some less, some more. But God knows us deep down.

Things can get very very murky between drawing the line between sin, it’s degree, and mental illness. Hopefully, we won’t start completely explaining sin away, though, as if it were just due to environmental factors in a child’s development or some chemical imbalance. It’s complex. And also time for many of us CAF members in the states to hit the hay, victims of our mammalilan biology, the curse of sleep, we must obey.

 

[poche]

Mental illness may mitigate the culpability for many sins. That is why we should not sit in judgement of other people. We should also be more ready to pray for the repose of their souls when even the most ‘evil’ of men dies.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Suicide is an interesting case because at the time of Jesus, the surrounding pagan cultures encouraged and condoned suicide for things like preserving the family honor, or becoming elderly and incontinent (feebleness=shameful), or a woman who was rapedwoukd kill herself as a form of protest against the rape (to prove her own virtue) and the Church had to fight very hard against these cultural practices .

A lot of people have forgotten that today, and like to talk about how mean and uncaring the Church was towards suicide, and don’t realize that not all suicides are from desperate persons or who suffered a psychotic break.

 

[Lee1]

I was told just two days ago that the Church doesn’t think we have mind, body and soul, just body and soul.

I don’t know where that leaves us with mental illness.

I must say it disappointed me somewhat since Ive studied psychology a little but if that’s what the Church says then fine.

I’ll try to find the link I was given which explains everything.

 

[Lee1]

Yes firstly this is the link to a thread which was closed rather quickly as I expect this one will be

Multiple personalities and judgement Moral Theology

The Catechism only lists Body and Soul. 364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit. 232 Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and c…

Secondly this is the further education on the subject I was offered

Multiple personalities and judgement Moral Theology

You need to read more on the subject. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10321a.htm

 

[fhansen]

The Church acknowledges that our backgrounds and experiences can alter or mitigate our culpability, but to throw out the concept of sin altogether, by insisting that there’s always some duress or other condition involved, completely removes the role of the will in man, rendering him basically an amoral irresponsible beast, with no choices. The doctrine involving the state of original sin and the resulting struggle with concupiscence, however, with its emphasis on our need for discipline and self-mastery, goes far into recognizing the basic reason for much of man’s unnatural excesses, or why man tends towards unreasonable “unnaturalness” or disorder to begin with.

 

[Vico]

…
How (else) has our evolving understanding of mental health and mental illness altered our understanding of sin? Other examples?

The Church teaching is that sin is voluntary. Morally incorrect actions that are involuntary are called material sins not actual sins. Note that in the Catechism we receive instruction on responsibility.

Catechism

1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. …

1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.

2352 … To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

 

[Lee1]

I’m sorry I don’t understand.

I was starting to have a chat about multi personality disorder the other day and I mentioned that we have mind, body and soul and someone corrected me with the aforementioned links telling me that the Church says that we have only body and soul.

I was surprised. So yes, sometimes we do have to state the obvious because apparently the obvious can be in error.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

Mortal sins can be mitigated to venial sins if there is addiction or habit involved (as I’m sure we all know here), so this is another example of what you are referring to. Habitual masturbation for example could be mitigated to a venial sin but this isn’t up to us to decide, it should be in conversation with a spiritual director and/or confessor. But even if the sins are mitigated, they are still grave matter. The graveness of the sin does not change, the “responsibility” (for lack of a better word) is lessened.

I have a lot of relatives who have addictions to alcohol and alcoholism has called many deaths in my family, also addictions to other stuff. So this addictiveness runs in my genetics and for awhile it had its clutches on me in impure things. Still grave matter, but potentially mitigated to a venial level (but again not up to me to decide that)

 

[Lee1]

Yes, of course we have brain in our bodies but the Church is saying that we don’t have mind as a separate entity to soul. That we have organic body and soul, no mind. That doesn’t mean we don’t think, it just means that what we’re thinking with isn’t an entity called mind, it’s called soul.

So I say, ok, it’s a question of semantics, just names. These divisions are of our making anyway surely. In reality they don’t exist. Even on scans it is shown that when we think it takes place all over the brain.

I’m just relaying what I was told about this just the other day. I have no ego involvement whatsoever. We’re all learning aren’t we.

 

[blackforest]

This is an excellent point. Christianity reformed a lot of cultures by steering them away from ritual suicides and sacrifices. As Catholics, we’d pray for God’s mercy on these souls, as well, because they did not go about it with full knowledge of their actions.

don’t realize that not all suicides are from desperate persons or who suffered a psychotic break.

These days, at least, with the exception of suicide-bombing terrorists, I’d say that the vast majority are.

 

[Atreju]

Psychology has definitely illuminated a lot of what drives behavior, and provides tools to deal with problematic behavior. That being said, we all have different challenges and are all expected to adhere to the same high standard.

Yes, it is harder for someone who is bipolar to deal with the sin of anger. But is it not also harder for a poor and desperate person to resist the temptation to steal, or for an abused person to resist the temptation to hate?

Thank God for grace and forgiveness, I say.

 

[guanophore]

Mental illness may mitigate the culpability for many sins. That is why we should not sit in judgement of other people.

Yes, but people are still culpable, which is why it is important to deal with these things as both spiritual problems and health problems.

 

[ahs]

I don’t that it’s altered our understanding of sin, per se, as much as it’s helped us see why some people react differently than others, etc. Sin is still sin, no matter what. But this includes the fact (and always has) that “sin” is an “act of the will” to do something sinful (contrary to God’s Will). So, I suppose you could say it has helped us understand how certain people may be less culpable for sins they commit, but it hasn’t changed what we call “sin”.
But maybe that’s what you are saying in the first place. (Am I picking this apart too much and missing the point?)

 

[LeahPaz]

I believe the answer is in Scripture. Look at these verses and I will say the point I want to make:

«As he passed by he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him. We have to do the works of the one who sent me while it is day. Night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” When he had said this, he spat on the ground and made clay with the saliva, and smeared the clay on his eyes, and said to him, “Go wash in the Pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). So he went and washed, and came back able to see.»
‭‭John‬ ‭9:1-7‬ ‭NABRE‬‬

John 9:1-7 As he passed by he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is | New American Bible, revised edition

While the Pharisees went around condemning others and judging them, Jesus went around and healed them. Those that are considered the most sinful by society have most likely suffered abuse in their childhood. A woman that I consider my spiritual grandmother used to minister to prisoners. She said that every single one she spoke to had been sexually abused as a child, had come from broken homes, etc. Now that is not to say it is ok for them to commit crimes, but it is clear that these people were in need of emotional and spiritual healing.

I personally have had to deal with a lot of abuse in my life since childhood. I can tell you right now, that abusive people, act this way, because they were abused, and are enacting on pain they have in their hearts… whether they know it or not. Of course if they realized why they are doing what they are doing, they wouldn’t do it. Like Jesus said, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.” It is an act of spiritual blindness, all sin is.

I believe Jesus came to heal the sick. Those rejects of society, that the world considers disposable, God loves them. I believe that when for example, Jesus went and associated with sinners, and gave them hope, healed their diseases, loved them, forgave them… that he was also sending a message to the Pharisees, the self-righteous and judgemental. That the healing Jesus brings is multi-level and penetrates to the core of one’s being. That he was saying to them, these “sinners”, these people are sick (perhaps traumatized from youth) and need healing and love.

 

[guanophore]

I was told just two days ago that the Church doesn’t think we have mind, body and soul, just body and soul.

I don’t know where that leaves us with mental illness.

According to the Church, the mind is part of the soul. Where that leaves us with mental illness is the same place that leaves us with physical illness. The effects of sin in the world affect both body and mind, which includes emotions, reason, and will.

I must say it disappointed me somewhat since Ive studied psychology a little but if that’s what the Church says then fine.

The study of psychology is literally psyche = soul. What has been lost in modern Western approaches to science is that the human soul, or psyche is much more than just observable behavior. The human soul is best understood through art and poetry, rather than science.

 

[blackforest]

No, it’s an important point you raise. I think it underscores the difference between judging an act and judging a person. The former is generally easier to do, save for some more complicated ethical dilemmas. The latter is best left to God or, in extreme cases, our courts.

 

[blackforest]

I should add that I started this thread partly because occasionally I see posters worrying that their mental health condition, such as self-harm through cutting or an eating disorder, as across-the-board sinful when there’s so much more to it. These questions require a trip to the confessional rather than a CAF log-in.