Since there are so many threads about homosexuality

[bri89]

Lokabrenna, if you only knew you were same-sex attracted four years ago (I don’t know how old you are), how did you understand your sexuality before then? Did you date or were attracted to men?

 

[atheistgirl]

concentrates really hard Come on, like men already! blinks I mustn’t be trying hard enough…tries again

Nope, sorry, I don’t think I can. I’ve tried before, it didn’t work then either…

Sorry.

I’d like to refer you to a few posters on here

Certain well educated doctors and the like believe you’re simply choosing to be a homosexual

Sarah x

 

[vera_dicere]

…why not ask questions of an actual homosexual? As long as they’re, you know, clean.

I wasn’t sure where to put this thread. It didn’t seem appropriate for the non-Catholic religions board (unless I was to change it to be about GLBT+ Pagans) or the Back Fence, so I’m sticking it here.

In your experience, do the majority of gay people want gay marriage? I’ve met several, online and in RL that are opposed to altering marriage as one man one woman to include same sex couples, for a variety of reasons.

And, do you think the gay rights movement are spending too much effort on legalising gay marriage? HIV infections are on the rise again in gay men, there’s a hideous number of gay teens killing themselves, there’s still an incredible amount of persecution. Do you think the gay rights movement woudl be better using resources if they focussed on more tangible concerns?

When so many straight people see marriage as a “piece of paper” and with co-habitation and defacto relationships on the rise, is something that seems to be more and more religiously slanted, why are gays so interested in marriage?

Maybe its different where you are, but down here, a good deal of straight people just don’t give a cow pat about marriage anymore, unless they have a religious conviction towards it.

And do you feel you may be alienating straight society by trying to claim something that is the cornerstone relationship of human civilisation based on the fact its procreative?

 

[vera_dicere]

I’d like to refer you to a few posters on here

Certain well educated doctors and the like believe you’re simply choosing to be a homosexual

Sarah x

Its quite odd, those “choose to be homosexual” comments.

Do people making said comments mean that you “choose to be homosexual” as in you choose to be attracted to the same sex, or do they mean that you choose to act on those urges?

 

[AnthonySorensen]

Its quite odd, those “choose to be homosexual” comments.

Do people making said comments mean that you “choose to be homosexual” as in you choose to be attracted to the same sex, or do they mean that you choose to act on those urges?

WHy is it odd? You don’t think they choose to be that way? Have you ever had a thought run through your head that you didn’t act on?

 

[Lokabrenna]

Why are so many gays pagan and wikkan? Do they decide (mistakenly) that God hates them, so they decide to hate God back?

I knew a young gay man in Heyward who was all involved in wikka and paganism until he met a Jewish gay and “fell in love” he was so infatuated that he had surgery so he could become Jewish.

It’s actually Wiccan. There’ no need to use 'k’s unless you’re talking about “magick”.
And, in my experience, there are lots of LGBT+ Pagans and Wiccans because they find acceptance in Pagan and Wiccan tradition. One of my tradition’s “founders” is a partnered gay man, in fact. (He didn’t discover the religion, he was just one of the first authors to write about it.)

Lokabrenna, if you only knew you were same-sex attracted four years ago (I don’t know how old you are), how did you understand your sexuality before then? Did you date or were attracted to men?

As a child, I imagined I was heterosexual, like my friends, teachers, parents, but it was odd, because while my friends would drool over male celebrities, I was just kind of “meh”. I thought I was asexual in high school, because I honestly wasn’t interested in anyone, to answer your question: no, I’ve never dated anyone.

The reason I said around four years ago is because that’s when I was really looking at who I was attracted to, and I thought at this point that maybe I was bisexual (as in, I could appreciate both in an aesthetic sense). If you look at some of my previous threads on CAF, I talk about being bisexual.

And then, most recently, I just realized “You know what? I like men, but not that much. I don’t want to sleep with them. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life with a man, and while I can appreciate them aesthetically, they don’t turn me on.” I’ve heard a lot of people experience their sexuality as fluid. I wouldn’t say that’s the case for me, I just took a long time to realize where I fit.

 

[atheistgirl]

Its quite odd, those “choose to be homosexual” comments.

Do people making said comments mean that you “choose to be homosexual” as in you choose to be attracted to the same sex, or do they mean that you choose to act on those urges?

This is what the well educated good doctor believes:

I believe and profess that homosexuality is a choice and nothing will change my mind. A person can change their sexual orientation if they truly believe that the world will not accept that behavior. No amount of anything will make me think differently.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9758733&postcount=464

He believes you can change your sexual orientation, you just have to believe you can, and you have to be rejected by the world in order to do so.

Scarey

Sarah x

 

[Glennford]

Certain well educated doctors and the like believe you’re simply choosing to be a homosexual

Way to be an internet goon. Even Kinsey back in 1948 placed people on a graded continuum from exclusively hetero to exclusively homo, and noted movement across the scale during lifetimes. This natural malleability leaves open the possibility for all kinds of outside stimuli to affect people, and for behaviors to reinforce desires. I think every adult in the room understands this, meanwhile the ignorant kids rely on placard-worthy slogans. Way to go. You should be really proud of your understanding of complex sexual issues. You are a perfect mirror of the errors of your enemies.

 

[Lokabrenna]

In your experience, do the majority of gay people want gay marriage? I’ve met several, online and in RL that are opposed to altering marriage as one man one woman to include same sex couples, for a variety of reasons.

Same-sex couples in my country have same-sex marriage. I think, in any given population, you will have people who want to get married, and others who don’t. My biological mother is heterosexual, and she’s currently in a common-law relationship. My brother decided not to have a religious wedding. That is their choice if they don’t want to get married, but it doesn’t mean that there aren’t also same-sex couples who do want it.

And, do you think the gay rights movement are spending too much effort on legalising gay marriage? HIV infections are on the rise again in gay men, there’s a hideous number of gay teens killing themselves, there’s still an incredible amount of persecution. Do you think the gay rights movement woudl be better using resources if they focussed on more tangible concerns?

The thing is, all of those issues are separate but related. You can’t talk about why young LGBT+s are killing themselves without talking about why Sally and Anne can’t enter into a committed relationship with all the rights and privileges afforded to married couples, because homophobia is just that prevalent in society. It’s not a matter of saying “one issue is more important than the other”, they are all important.

When so many straight people see marriage as a “piece of paper” and with co-habitation and defacto relationships on the rise, is something that seems to be more and more religiously slanted, why are gays so interested in marriage?

Maybe its different where you are, but down here, a good deal of straight people just don’t give a cow pat about marriage anymore, unless they have a religious conviction towards it.

Marriage comes with a huge list of rights and privileges that are currently denied to my LGBT+ American friends. Here’s a short list: nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html

As for heterosexuals devaluing marriage, maybe we can show you how to value it again! No, seriously, if people aren’t considering marriage, I fail to see how my community is responsible for it. My brothers are married, one of my best friends is getting married soon. I say you should all blame heterosexual celebrities.

And do you feel you may be alienating straight society by trying to claim something that is the cornerstone relationship of human civilisation based on the fact its procreative?

shrugs If they’re that alienated, maybe they should be looking at themselves rather than blaming LGBT+ folks for their problems. My religious community doesn’t have a problem with it. My friends don’t have a problem with it. My family is a little confused, but that’s their problem, not mine.

 

[stewstew03]

The thing is, all of those issues are separate but related. You can’t talk about why young LGBT+s are killing themselves without talking about why Sally and Anne can’t enter into a committed relationship with all the rights and privileges afforded to married couples, because homophobia is just that prevalent in society.

Sally and Anne kill themselves because they can’t get married…? Is this hyperbole?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I imagine that almost everyone on this thread already knows at least one homosexual person. Studies vary but most suggest that between 8 and 15 % of the population is gay. That means a person is likely to know eight homosexuals for every hundred people they know. Furthermore, these eight homosexuals are likely going to be completely unique, independent individuals with their own opinions and experiences.

No, more like 2-3% and there are a number of places where they tend to cluster causing other places to have a lower density.

Interesting idea. I lived as a “practicing” gay person for about 20 years. I have since made a commitment to the Catholic church and have changed my behavior. I still have many gay friends, I lost a couple when I rejoined the Church-but overall they’ve been supportive.

I do think that a lot of Catholics hold misconceptions about gay people, a lot of gay people hold misconceptions about Catholics and that can cause a lot of hurt feelings. I don’t think anyone means to be hurtful, it’s just not knowing each other. I am of the opinion that more gay people coming to Christ is a good thing, and less hurt feelings is a way to get that started.

As for my “beginning” there was never a time when I didn’t know I was different. I didn’t know there was a word for it until I was a teenager. Raised by two parents who were married 50 years, had a nice suburban upbringing with all the advantages of good Catholic schools and college, swim team, piano lessons and Mass on the weekends. No trauma, no abuse…none of the “causes” people ascribe to homosexuality. It’s just the way I was, there was no moment of choice, the only choice I have ever had is whether or not to act on my attractions.

I’ve seen a bit of nasty stuff on this forum about gays too.

In your experience, do the majority of gay people want gay marriage? I’ve met several, online and in RL that are opposed to altering marriage as one man one woman to include same sex couples, for a variety of reasons.

And, do you think the gay rights movement are spending too much effort on legalising gay marriage? HIV infections are on the rise again in gay men, there’s a hideous number of gay teens killing themselves, there’s still an incredible amount of persecution. Do you think the gay rights movement woudl be better using resources if they focussed on more tangible concerns?

When so many straight people see marriage as a “piece of paper” and with co-habitation and defacto relationships on the rise, is something that seems to be more and more religiously slanted, why are gays so interested in marriage?

Maybe its different where you are, but down here, a good deal of straight people just don’t give a cow pat about marriage anymore, unless they have a religious conviction towards it.

And do you feel you may be alienating straight society by trying to claim something that is the cornerstone relationship of human civilisation based on the fact its procreative?

Well, there are the benefits and then there is the societal recognition.
HIV infections is on the rise due to “condom fatigue”.
Lots of teens kill themselves for a variety of reasons. For gays I know of who killed themselves it typically has to do with a feeling of shame, self loathing and the feeling of having no future.

WHy is it odd? You don’t think they choose to be that way? Have you ever had a thought run through your head that you didn’t act on?

Except the poster in question was talking about the thoughts entering into your head, not the acting upon them.

Way to be an internet goon. Even Kinsey back in 1948 placed people on a graded continuum from exclusively hetero to exclusively homo, and noted movement across the scale during lifetimes. This natural malleability leaves open the possibility for all kinds of outside stimuli to affect people, and for behaviors to reinforce desires. I think every adult in the room understands this, meanwhile the ignorant kids rely on placard-worthy slogans. Way to go. You should be really proud of your understanding of complex sexual issues. You are a perfect mirror of the errors of your enemies.

No, that poster is merely referring to another poster on this forum

 

[Lokabrenna]

Sally and Anne kill themselves because they can’t get married…? Is this hyperbole?

It could happen, but what I was saying that suicide of LGBT youth, a lack of understanding of health issues that affect LGBTs (thus leading to the spread of more diseases), people who are perceived as not being heterosexual being beaten or killed, and same sex couples being denied freedoms like marriage all have the same root cause (homophobia, heterosexism, cissexism). It’s not a matter of working on one issue and not paying attention to any of the others, they are ALL related

 

[Glennford]

Sally and Anne kill themselves because they can’t get married…? Is this hyperbole?

Sally and Anne kill themselves because they are young people who are depressed and confused and have a predisposition to self-inflicted violence. The fact that they were at that point in their lives attracted to each other is just the problem du jour. Meanwhile, across the street, Marcie kills herself because she likes Ben and Ben likes Stacy and Marcy thinks her life has no value. Anyone investigating Marcie’s death concludes that Ben was just the problem du jour and she had mental issues resulting in a predisposition to self-inflicted violence.

 

[AnthonySorensen]

The thing is, all of those issues are separate but related. You can’t talk about why young LGBT+s are killing themselves without talking about why Sally and Anne can’t enter into a committed relationship with all the rights and privileges afforded to married couples, because homophobia is just that prevalent in society.

.

I like how gay supporters always call us bigots and homophobes. Following what the bible and Christ teaches **always **equates to us being hateful bigots.

It gets comical after a while.

 

[Crescentinus]

I like how gay supporters always call us bigots and homophobes. Following what the bible and Christ teaches **always **equates to us being hateful bigots.

It gets comical after a while.

No wonder I reverse what they say.
For instance, they call us homophobes. I then proceed to call them heterophobes.

 

[AnthonySorensen]

No wonder I reverse what they say.
For instance, they call us homophobes. I then proceed to call them heterophobes.

I’ve pointed out before that if we are homophobes then they are Christian-phobes and also hypocrites. They don’t like that very much.

heterophobes is good though.

 

[Crescentinus]

I’ve pointed out before that if we are homophobes then they are Christian-phobes and also hypocrites. They don’t like that very much.

heterophobes is good though.

In all seriousness, there are few homophobes and heterophobes in this world.

 

[stewstew03]

Sally and Anne kill themselves because they are young people who are depressed and confused and have a predisposition to self-inflicted violence. The fact that they were at that point in their lives attracted to each other is just the problem du jour. Meanwhile, across the street, Marcie kills herself because she likes Ben and Ben likes Stacy and Marcy thinks her life has no value. Anyone investigating Marcie’s death concludes that Ben was just the problem du jour and she had mental issues resulting in a predisposition to self-inflicted violence.

Yeah, I agree with this analysis…

 

[Marc_Anthony]

I’m glad I finally saw a list of those rights only guaranteed to married couples, but there are a couple of problems I see with the logic, in my opinion.

It seems like a lot of the issues on the list, such as hospital visits, wills and the like can be arranged through simple legal contracts.

I’m also not sure why the fact they’re in a committed relationship means they should have family rights. If it’s wrong that homosexual couple don’t have those rights, how about single people? How about brothers or brother and sister? Or a group of friends? Why can’t they be granted marriage status too?

Here’s a question for you: What do you honestly think of people who oppose same-sex marriage in a non-militant way (as in, who have no problem with homosexuals and have homosexual friends and relatives but still oppose same-sex marriage)?

I’ve talked to several people who are either homosexuals or supporters of homosexual marriage and they’ve told me in no uncertain terms that if you oppose same-sex marriage but don’t have a problem with homosexuals as individuals you are WORSE than militant homosexual bigots, because you really hate homosexuals too and are just passive aggressive and trying to put a “good face” on your bigotry.

 

[stewstew03]

It could happen, but what I was saying that suicide of LGBT youth, a lack of understanding of health issues that affect LGBTs (thus leading to the spread of more diseases), people who are perceived as not being heterosexual being beaten or killed, and same sex couples being denied freedoms like marriage all have the same root cause (homophobia, heterosexism, cissexism). It’s not a matter of working on one issue and not paying attention to any of the others, they are ALL related

Okay, this is quite different from your previous comment. LGBTs need our love and understanding to mitigate the depression and lack of self-esteem they experience during adolescence. It has nothing to do with marriage.