Sinead O'Connor on the Catholic Church abuse scandal [CNN Video]

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My original thread on this got locked because I did not link to a story. But now I found a link so I would like to re-post it.

Here is the link: ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/27/video-sinead-oconnor-on-the-catholic-church-abuse-scandal/

Here is my original OP:

**I can’t believe it. Tonight (March 26) Anderson Cooper on CNN just had that boob Sinaed O’Conner on for a whole half hour acting as an authority on Catholicism! And on top of that, there was no rebuttle guest. All she did was rip on the Pope and the Church.

CNN is on an anti-Catholic rampage of late I have noticed. I make a suggestion to all here: Take a whole day to divert all the typing you do in this forum over to typing mountains of complaints to CNN. We should flood them with complaints. Here is their contact page: cnn.com/feedback/
**

Here is an addition to the OP:

Cooper’s blog also links to a personal statement from O’Connor. She was a victim of the Magdalene Laundries (she does not discuss this in detail)… this might explain some of her anger towards the Church.
ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/26/to-sinead-oconnor-pope-benedicts-apology-for-church-sex-abuse-rings-hollow/
 
One question though, she said pedophilia under cannon law becomes a defense in the same way insanity does under civil law. Is this correct?

And what was the oath that she was referencing?

Sinead O’connor seems to be reveling when there is some scandal that she can pick on, not even knowing all the full facts.
 
One question though, she said pedophilia under cannon law becomes a defense in the same way insanity does under civil law. Is this correct?

And what was the oath that she was referencing?

Sinead O’connor seems to be reveling when there is some scandal that she can pick on, not even knowing all the full facts.
I am no expert in canon law, but I doubt that O’Conner is either, and I highly doubt that Pedophelia is mentioned in canon law.

One other thing: Most reported cases involved boys in their early teens. That is not pedophelia, it is homosexuality. But the media won’t report that because it reflects badly on homosexuals. Instead the media incites anger by calling it pedophelia. That is a fact that Catholics, especially O’Connor, need to tune in to.
 
Sinead O’Connor has been at this for years. I remember the Saturday Night Live incident where she tore up a photo of Pope John Paul II. I pay no attention to her.
 
I have always percieved that Sinead very likely suffers from some sort of severe mental illness. Her rants border on hysterics, and it seems that her rhetoric is always disjointed and delusional. For Anderson Cooper, the openly gay Vanderbilt heir who supports homosexual marriage (thus despises the Church), to create deceptive theater by propping up the troubled Irish singer as some sort of Vaticanologist betrays his own activist agenda. This is a stark example of a media turned blatantly propagandist, and of a man who uses his power within it to skew and deform truth to fit his own biased concept of reality. Our airwaves have become virulent. Beware.
 
Sinead O’Connor has been at this for years. I remember the Saturday Night Live incident where she tore up a photo of Pope John Paul II. I pay no attention to her.
Well, I don’t pay attention to her either. What bothers me is that she is a component in CNN’s new-found anti-Catholic crusade. We all really need to send complaints in to CNN.
 
I have always percieved that Sinead very likely suffers from some sort of severe mental illness. Her rants border on hysterics, and it seems that her rhetoric is always disjointed and delusional. For Anderson Cooper, the openly gay Vanderbilt heir who supports homosexual marriage (thus despises the Church), to create deceptive theater by propping up the troubled Irish singer as some sort of Vaticanologist betrays his own activist agenda. This is a stark example of a media turned blatantly propagandist, and of a man who uses his power within it to skew and deform truth to fit his own biased concept of reality. Our airwaves have become virulent. Beware.
You know what? That is such a great post that I adapted it and used it for another complaint email to CNN.

Well said.
 
No one does/should care about what some washed-up D list one hit wonder says about religion.

Nor should anyone care about someone’s sexual preference. Leave Anderson Cooper out of it.
 
By choosing her as a “spokesman” this was a deliberate attack.
Yet another “Sign of the Times.”

The Church is under attack. Even Mother Angelica has said the Catholic Church is going through her own Passion.

Mark Mallett addresses this. There is more on the horizon. As the “Body of Christ,” you and me—are we ready? It will get worse. Father Corapi and Father Euteneuer have been clear.

Click Here: Mark Mallett-Wedding Preparations
 
Look—the woman volunteered that she’d had two abortions years ago, so she’s got a lot of rage to deal with. She also said that her mom’s death in a car accident was the happiest day of her life. Yikes! So, I just feel badly for her, but I think that her opinions are tinged with major issues in her own head. Rob 🤷
 
Look—the woman volunteered that she’d had two abortions years ago, so she’s got a lot of rage to deal with. She also said that her mom’s death in a car accident was the happiest day of her life. Yikes! So, I just feel badly for her, but I think that her opinions are tinged with major issues in her own head. Rob 🤷
Well, my original purpose for this thread was CNN’s attack on the Church. A Forum Admin changed the thread title. I really wanted to focus on CNN’s new Crusade against Catholicism, as the OP indicates, not on Sinaed O’Conner.
 
I am no expert in canon law,…, and I highly doubt that Pedophelia is mentioned in canon law.
And you’d be wrong.
The Canon Law: Letter & Spirit: A Practical Guide to the Code of Canon Law: The Canon Law Society of Great Britain and Ireland. Can. 1395 §2 A cleric who has offended in other ways against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue, if the offense was committed by force, or by threats, or in public, or with a minor under the age of sixteen years, is to be punished with just penalties, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state if the case so warrants.
This §2 deals with other kinds of offence against the obligation of clerical celibacy:
(a) if the cleric offends against the sixth commandment with another person by using force or threats, e.g. by committing rape or some other form of sexual assault;
(b) if the cleric offends against the sixth commandment in a public place or in a place to which the public has access; in this case, if the other party was willingly involved, he or she may be punished in accordance with Can. 1329;
(c) if the cleric offends against the sixth commandment with a minor under the age of sixteen years.
The matter of imputability is of fundamental importance in considering each of these offences, and not least the third mentioned above. Before imposing any penalty for such an offence, the ecclesiastical authority must be morally certain that there has been an external violation of the law which is gravely imputable in the sense explained above at Can. 1321 §1. Among the factors which may seriously diminish imputability in such cases is paedophilia. This is described as `the act or fantasy of engaging in sexual activity with pre-pubertal children as a repeatedly preferred or exclusive method of achieving sexual excitement’.1 Those who have studied this matter in detail have concluded that proven paedophiles are often subject to urges and impulses which are in effect beyond their control.2
**When the facts of a particular case are examined carefully, it may well emerge that the cleric did indeed commit a sexual offence, or a number of them, with a minor; as such, he may be liable to punishment by the criminal law of the State; nevertheless, because of the influence of paedophilia, he may not be liable, by reason of at least diminished imputability, to any canonical penalty, or perhaps to only a mild penalty, to a formal warning or reproof, or to a penal remedy.**3 In dealing with such cases, the ecclesiastical authority must tread very carefully, balancing the harm done to the victims, the rights of the cleric in canon law, and the overall good of the Church in its striving for justice for all.
In the first place, a clear distinction must be drawn between two not untypical situations, namely: (a) that of a cleric of such paedophile orientation that he stands accused of having, over a number of years and even up to the present time, sexually abused a minor or minors under sixteen years of age; and (b) that of a cleric who stands accused of having, a number of years previously – perhaps, ten, fifteen, twenty – sexually abused such a minor, on one or a number of occasions, but who since the alleged offence has led a blameless clerical life. No real system of justice – least of all that of the canon law – can equate these two situations, particularly in the manner in which it deals with them. Nor should this juridical and pastoral view be adversely influenced by the sometimes excessive statements of some psychologists and psychiatrists, to the effect that once such an offence, of however long ago, has been established, the ecclesiastical authority has on its hands an incurable paedophile. Experience has proven that the disregard of this interpretation of the law has itself led to yet further injustice. In particular, it would appear to be imprudent of any episcopal authority to be dependent upon the advice of any one psychiatric expert. It should be noted that in fact, whatever else, the advice of a psychological expert should always be sought. It will then be for the Bishop to balance the advice he is thus given and, in his own prudent judgement, to act accordingly.
Secondly, serious consideration should always be given by the diocesan Bishop before the use of the penal process (see Cann. 1717ff) is involved in these cases. It should be used as a first response only in exceptional circumstances. It should never be used by way of threat of dismissal from the clerical state – not least because, in normal circumstances, the outcome of the penal process would not be in the Bishop’s personal control. There is the further consideration – relevant perhaps in some countries more than others – that the premature use of the penal process could lead to a requirement by the civil authorities of ‘discovery’ of the documents used in the canonical process. In accordance with Can. 1344 2°, the competent ecclesiastical authority may refrain from seeking to punish an offending cleric in such a case ‘if the offender has been or foreseeably will be sufficiently punished by the civil authority’.’
Religious who offend against Can. 1395 §2 must be dismissed from their institute in accordance with Can. 695 § 1, unless the relevant Superior judges that it is not absolutely necessary. In such a case, the Superior must ascertain that sufficient provision can be made otherwise for the amendment of the offender and the reparation of the harm and scandal caused.
Those clerics who are found guilty of any of the offences listed in this paragraph are to be punished with a just penalty, … Because of the intrinsic gravity of these offences, the authority may even proceed towards dismissal from the clerical state, provided always that all the requirements of law in this regard are carefully observed (see Cann. 1342 §2, 1425 §1 2°a).
 
Here’s an interesting article from the Irish Independent going back 8 years, on the subject of paedophilia and the Irish priesthood and canon law:

independent.ie/national-news/church-law-says-child-abusers-may-not-be-liable-for-actions-308605.html
The Bishop of Ferns, Dr Brendan Comiskey, has known of complaints about child-abusing clergy in his diocese since 1988, when Father Jim Grennan sexually assaulted 10 girls on the altar of his Church.
A Garda investigation was inexplicably discontinued and six years later an inquiry said there was no evidence of collusion between any organisation and the Garda Siochana to stifle, obstruct or abandon the investigation.
Then there was Father Sean Fortune, a sexual predator and manipulative monster who preyed on children and their naive parents and who was described yesterday by Bishop Comiskey as if he was an impossible adolescent who was impossible to control.
Yet Bishop Comiskey could have prevented this perverted priest from hurting many children if he had stopped him when suspicions of his paedophilia made it too dangerous for him to continue performing as a clergyman.
When the clusters of clerical child abuse in Wexford were first reported, and then became like an epidemic, some angry parishioners defended the priests under suspicion, and their Bishop, too, by attacking their accusers.
Yesterday Bishop Comiskey, for whom anyone with a heart must feel some sympathy, admitted he had hidden behind the law to avoid confronting the devastation caused by paedophile priests in his diocese.
However, you don’t need the law of the land to be able to tell right from wrong - and to know that the dictates of Canon Law are highly questionable when dealing with paedophile clergy abusing the children of the parishes.
 
And you’d be wrong.
''When the facts of a particular case are examined carefully, it may well emerge that the cleric did indeed commit a sexual offence, or a number of them, with a minor; as such, he may be liable to punishment by the criminal law of the State; nevertheless, because of the influence of paedophilia, he may not be liable, by reason of at least diminished imputability, to any canonical penalty, or perhaps to only a mild penalty, to a formal warning or reproof, or to a penal remedy.3
 
And you’d be wrong.
**And so I was. Touche’. Well, I said I was no expert, didn’t I.

At any rate, that is neither here nor there. As I stated:**
Well, my original purpose for this thread was CNN’s attack on the Church. A Forum Admin changed the thread title. I really wanted to focus on CNN’s new Crusade against Catholicism, as the OP indicates, not on Sinaed O’Conner.
 
**And so I was. Touche’. Well, I said I was no expert, didn’t I.

At any rate, that is neither here nor there. As I stated:**
You can’t attack something that isn’t there.

The Catholic Church with it’s 1.3 billion members and claims to be the established church of Christ on earth, holds a claim no other church does. (Apart from the Orthodox Church perhaps?).

It has consistently mismanaged and mishandled the issue of abuse and sexual abuse by it’s religous leaders.

Bishops, the churchs Princes, have lied about facts, obstruced the course of justice, bribed and silenced victims, and protected abusers to prevent scandal at all costs.

I don’t see how calling the church out on this is an ‘‘anti-catholic rampage’’.

I think the media and victims groups have every right to demand justice and action, and are equally right to be somewhat cautious if not cynical about any offical response, considering the misdirection, obfuscation, and deceipt the church has engaged in up to this point.

The church has made it’s a target.
 
lemonbeam;6453020:
The Code of Canon Law: A Text and Commentary: commissioned by the Canon Law Society of America: STUDY EDITION (Edited by James A. Coriden, Thomas J. Green, Donald #E. Heintschel, Paulist Press, 1985
Well you didn’t add the revision that had been made to Canon law:

When the Church’s Code of Canon Law was revised in 1983, an important passage was added: “The cleric who commits any other offense against the sixth precept of the Decalogue, if the offense was committed with violence or threats, or publicly or with a minor who is under 16 years [now extended to 18 years], must be punished with just punishments, not excluding expulsion from the clerical state” (CIC 1395:2).
 
Guyonthestreet;6453086:
Well you didn’t add the revision that had been made to Canon law:

When the Church’s Code of Canon Law was revised in 1983, an important passage was added: "The cleric who commits any other offense against the sixth precept of the Decalogue, if the offense was committed with violence or threats, or publicly or with a minor who is under 16 years [now extended to 18 years], must be punished with just punishments, not excluding expulsion from the clerical state
" (CIC 1395:2).

What is punishment with ‘‘just punishments’’?

It doesnt appear to necessarily include being marched to the nearest police department and charges brought.

It does appear to include being able to buy the silence of the victims.

Unfortunately for the victims of such clerics, it also appears to include the cleric being moved to another parish, the Bishop not being informed of the true reason for the move, and the abusive cleric being able to carry on sexually abusing the children of the parish he was moved to.

Fat lot of good the 1983 revision has done eh?
 
You can’t attack something that isn’t there.

The Catholic Church with it’s 1.3 billion members and claims to be the established church of Christ on earth…
And so she is. In this forum your anti-Catholic propoganda falls on deaf ears. Maybe you should post that garbage is Jack Chick’s forum.

And by the way, if it isn’t there, then why are you so big on quoting canon law? Do you always quote things you believe to be invisible?
 
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