Sing a New Church Into Being

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The parish itself, however, was no longer feeding me and another parish (my new one) brought me to my knees.
The parish does not feed you. Christ himself does. If the liturgy is reverant there, the homilies wonderful, and there is a good KofC chapter, why did you leave? If you want Bible studies, young adult groups, adoration, rosary circles, you can start all or any of those. If reverant, devout lay people do not start those sorts of groups and work to build them up, they will not spring up of their own accord. Yes, it is hard work, but so very worthwhile!
 
The parish does not feed you. Christ himself does. If the liturgy is reverant there, the homilies wonderful, and there is a good KofC chapter, why did you leave? If you want Bible studies, young adult groups, adoration, rosary circles, you can start all or any of those. If reverant, devout lay people do not start those sorts of groups and work to build them up, they will not spring up of their own accord. Yes, it is hard work, but so very worthwhile!
I started this thread and now here we are on Pentecost. Not only did we begin our celebration of this very significant Holy Mass with that perrenial crowd gagger, Sing a New Church into Being, we took the Sequence, a most venerable ancient, theologically correct, prayer out of the liturgy and added a rather bizarre, half Latin half English, duet by the Cantor and the Music Minister (piano accompaniment, of course).

I realize it is not the parish’s responsibility to feed me, but it isn’t the parish’s responsibility to make at least a cursory stab at following the rubrics and intent of the Mass?

I’ve been in this parish 16 yeears through 3 pastors and several music directors and it just keeps going in stranger directions. It’s not a Protestant direction, they would never praise themselves like Sing a New Church does. I think it must be New Age feel good Oprah religion or something.

OK, rant over, I’m off to a new parish next week this one does me nothing but ill, if it was spiritually neutral I could handle it, but it’s offensive these days. They will not miss me when I’m gone so no loss no foul!
 
I started this thread and now here we are on Pentecost. Not only did we begin our celebration of this very significant Holy Mass with that perrenial crowd gagger, Sing a New Church into Being, we took the Sequence, a most venerable ancient, theologically correct, prayer out of the liturgy and added a rather bizarre, half Latin half English, duet by the Cantor and the Music Minister (piano accompaniment, of course).

I realize it is not the parish’s responsibility to feed me, but it isn’t the parish’s responsibility to make at least a cursory stab at following the rubrics and intent of the Mass?

I’ve been in this parish 16 yeears through 3 pastors and several music directors and it just keeps going in stranger directions. It’s not a Protestant direction, they would never praise themselves like Sing a New Church does. I think it must be New Age feel good Oprah religion or something.

OK, rant over, I’m off to a new parish next week this one does me nothing but ill, if it was spiritually neutral I could handle it, but it’s offensive these days. They will not miss me when I’m gone so no loss no foul!
I’m sorry you had to deal with this. Yes, as a catholic, you have a right to the Mass, celebrated in accord with the rubrics. It is their responsibility to celebrate the Mass well.
 
Has anybody been treated to this heterodox drivel? Our 20 something Music Direc…er, I mean Minister, has taken to using this thing as our opening “chant”. Not only are the lyrics abysmal self agrandisement, the nun who wrote it has the temerity to co-opt the music from “Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing”. Gad zooks1

How many people have to leave the Church before the light goes on for somebody in authority?
I here this hit on this song and others, but it isn’t any heresy. THe song calls for renewal, a call to arms in a way to do the work that Christ taught us. The remind us that we are a single body in Christ. A unified body a unified Church,
This is part of the call by the pope by allowing the EF, a call to put differnces aside, recognize we are differnt but all all call to answer the call of Christ to give and recongize human dignity to all.
 
I here this hit on this song and others, but it isn’t any heresy. THe song calls for renewal, a call to arms in a way to do the work that Christ taught us. The remind us that we are a single body in Christ. A unified body a unified Church,
This is part of the call by the pope by allowing the EF, a call to put differnces aside, recognize we are differnt but all all call to answer the call of Christ to give and recongize human dignity to all.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. Here are the lyrucs to this self aggrandizing horizontal ditty:

Summoned by the God who made us
rich in our diversity
Gathered in the name of Jesus,
richer still in unity.

Refrain: Let us bring the gifts that differ
and, in splendid, varied ways,
sing a new church into being,
one in faith and love and praise.

Radiant risen from the water,
robed in holiness and light,
male and female in God’s image,
male and female, God’s delight.

Refrain

Trust the goodness of creation;
trust the Spirit strong within.
Dare to dream the vision promised,
sprung from seed of what has been.

Refrain

Bring the hopes of every nation;
bring the art of every race.
Weave a song of peace and justice;
let it sound through time and space.

Refrain

Draw together at one table,
all the human family;
shape a circle ever wider
and a people ever free

Question: If I sing to you that you are " Radiant risen from the water,
robed in holiness and light, " would you think that I am crazy? I’m not robed in holiness nor am I radiant .It’s not talking about the Risen Christ it’s talking about the SINGER You may well be so endowed with radiance and for that I congratulate you.

Read the words! It’s all about US, we don’t go to Mass for US. Even Marty Haugen would blush at this mess. I have seen Call to Action puppet mass videos with this garbage as the theme song. As for me, new parish here I come.
 
I started this thread and now here we are on Pentecost. Not only did we begin our celebration of this very significant Holy Mass with that perrenial crowd gagger, Sing a New Church into Being, we took the Sequence, a most venerable ancient, theologically correct, prayer out of the liturgy and added a rather bizarre, half Latin half English, duet by the Cantor and the Music Minister (piano accompaniment, of course).

I realize it is not the parish’s responsibility to feed me, but it isn’t the parish’s responsibility to make at least a cursory stab at following the rubrics and intent of the Mass?

I’ve been in this parish 16 yeears through 3 pastors and several music directors and it just keeps going in stranger directions. It’s not a Protestant direction, they would never praise themselves like Sing a New Church does. I think it must be New Age feel good Oprah religion or something.

OK, rant over, I’m off to a new parish next week this one does me nothing but ill, if it was spiritually neutral I could handle it, but it’s offensive these days. They will not miss me when I’m gone so no loss no foul!
I have heard a lot of people talking about how the lyrics in the newer songs are more about worshipping ourselves and not God.

I am sorry you need to leave a parish you have been a part of for 16 years. I hope before you go though you have pointed out to your priest or bishop why you need to move to a different parish.
I moved to a new parish not because of this same thing but similar. It was a hard decision because the parish became like family. I just couldn’t continue to go to mass with a feeling of anger. I hope your new parish home will be a thriving community.
 
Question: If I sing to you that you are " Radiant risen from the water,
robed in holiness and light, " would you think that I am crazy? I’m not robed in holiness nor am I radiant .It’s not talking about the Risen Christ it’s talking about the SINGER You may well be so endowed with radiance and for that I congratulate you.
It’s a reference to Baptism.

It’s pretty safe to say that anybody who has just been baptized, and washed from the stain of Original Sin, is now robed in holiness. The traditional baptismal garment is a white robe, an alb really, to symbolize that “robed in holiness and light”.

It’s not my favorite hymn, and it’s a little too much about “us” for my taste, but as far as I can tell it’s not heretical, and they had the good sense to set it to a good melody (I don’t think we Catholics are used to using the same melody for different hymns but it’s done in a lot in other churches, that’s why a good hymnal has a hymn tune index at the back).

It’s a little cheesy for my personal taste but I wouldn’t get upset over it. Definitely not worth leaving a parish over, on it’s own. If I were a music director, I might schedule it a few times a year if the parishioners liked it, but not often. Probably for the exit hymn (so the people who hate it can bolt for the door like good Catholics do at the end of Mass :p).

JRRTFAN, are you a J.R.R. Tolkien fan? Don’t forget something he wrote in his letters:
***“I can recommend this as an exercise: make your Communion in circumstances that affront your taste. Choose a snuffling or gabbling priest or a proud and vulgar friar; and a church full of the usual bourgeois crowd, ill-behaved children – from those who yell to those products of Catholic schools who the moment the tabernacle is opened sit back and yawn – open necked and dirty youths, women in trousers and often with hair both unkempt and uncovered. Go to Communion with them (and pray for them). It will be just the same as a Mass said beautifully by a visibly holy man, and shared by a few devout and decorous people. (It could not be worse than the mess of the feeding of the Five Thousand – after which our Lord propounded the feeding that was to come.” ***
 
It’s a reference to Baptism.

It’s pretty safe to say that anybody who has just been baptized, and washed from the stain of Original Sin, is now robed in holiness. The traditional baptismal garment is a white robe, an alb really, to symbolize that “robed in holiness and light”.

It’s not my favorite hymn, and it’s a little too much about “us” for my taste, but as far as I can tell it’s not heretical, and they had the good sense to set it to a good melody (I don’t think we Catholics are used to using the same melody for different hymns but it’s done in a lot in other churches, that’s why a good hymnal has a hymn tune index at the back).

It’s a little cheesy for my personal taste but I wouldn’t get upset over it. Definitely not worth leaving a parish over, on it’s own. If I were a music director, I might schedule it a few times a year if the parishioners liked it, but not often. Probably for the exit hymn (so the people who hate it can bolt for the door like good Catholics do at the end of Mass :p).

JRRTFAN, are you a J.R.R. Tolkien fan? Don’t forget something he wrote in his letters:
Where does it refer to the newly baptized? Show me where it is a hymn to any of or all of the Trinity. It’s a song of one singer to the others. It’s ridiculous and heretical. JRRT turns over in his grave over this kind of stuff.
 
As much as I can’t stand the song, using it is not a violation of the rubrics. You will never hear it at my parish. I do not know how singing can produce a new Church, or why we need a new Church. Of all days, Pentacost ought to be our celebration of the same old Church having made it all these years.
 
Where does it refer to the newly baptized? Show me where it is a hymn to any of or all of the Trinity. It’s a song of one singer to the others. It’s ridiculous and heretical. JRRT turns over in his grave over this kind of stuff.
It’s using symbolic language and imagery. Poetry does that, and hymns are a kind of poetry. It doesn’t have to be literal. I think the allusion to baptism is fairly clear : “risen from the water” and “robed in holiness”.

In a way it reminds me of Psalm 121 (122). Not in the same class, but similar:
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                 1. I rejoiced at the things that were said to me: We shall go into the house of the Lord.
  1. Our feet were standing in thy courts, O Jerusalem.
    3. Jerusalem, which is built as a city, which is compact together.
    4. For thither did the tribes go up, the tribes of the Lord: the testimony of Israel, to praise the name of the Lord.
    5. Because their seats have sat in judgment, seats upon the house of David.
    6. Pray ye for the things that are for the peace of Jerusalem: and abundance for them that love thee.
  2. Let peace be in thy strength: and abundance in thy towers.
    8. For the sake of my brethren, and of my neighbours, I spoke peace of thee. http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=121&l=9#x
    9. Because of the house of the Lord our God, I have sought good things for thee.
It doesn’t praise God directly either, and calls on the fellow faithful to join together like the hymn does, though I think it direct the “pray-er” towards him more clearly than “Sing a New Church…”

My personal opinion is that “Sing a New Church Into Being” is unfinished. It’s calling on the faithful to gather together, nothing bad in that. It alludes to different aspects of our faith, like Baptism, or being made in God’s image, or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit “…trust the Spirit strong within”. Unfortunately, once we “draw together at one table” it stops there. It stops just short of reaching a climax or resolution. In my opinion, it could be improved by at least adding a doxology at the end.

But that doesn’t make it heretical, or truly awful. I guess there are different levels of “awful” but I don’t think this is any one of those. Just so-so, maybe a little cheesy like I said. I don’t think it’s worth getting that upset about it.
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  I agree it's not a direct praise of the Trinity, but not all hymns and chants, even very traditional ones, are. Like Psalm 121.Sometimes they're even in the voice of Jesus like communion chant [Ego Sum Vitis](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYgADJemGU4&feature=related), "I am the true vine, and you are the branches; he who abides in me and I in him, he it is who bears much fruit, alleluia, alleluia."
I’m not saying it’s good or excellent hymn I don’t think it’s as awfully bad as some are making out too be. If you can give me examples from the lyrics that are heretical, please show me.
 
I attended the Latin Mass downtown today.
The singing was absolutely beautiful,
the Church, absolutely Catholic.

👍
 
I’m not a fan of the song, but compared to the “Gather” song about “haughty people being sung throughout history,” I will accept limp lyrics vs. delusions of grandeur. The Gather song sounds like The Devil wrote it, which is just a tad too blasphemous for me.
:bigyikes:
 
I have one more issue with the song. The idea that people can create. “Into being” is poetic alright. It is used in Scripture for the idea of creation from nothing. In fact, the Hebrew word for create is never used apart from God being the subject. We can not claim to sing, conjure or wish anything into being. We can not sit down here in our humanity and declare in our music that we “will be like the Most High”. That’s another’s tag line.
 
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