Singing in California churches banned

[Funvod]

And this tells me you know little of what you’re talking about. I think I’m correct in my assumption that that was yet another Reddit lite jab.
FWIW I take issue with a lot of things about SKs government, so this isn’t just some blind Koreaboo defense if that’s what anyone reading this is thinking.
With that I’m done. This thread is derailing rapidly and I really don’t have an interest in engaging you anymore.

 

[pnewton]

You need to analyze the evidence for yourself to see if it passes the smell test.

My analysis is that education and experience are every bit important as intelligence. Moreover only the wise will understand that they are, and will always be, ignorant about more things than they know. Giving heed to posters here over those who have been educated and experienced in epidemiology does not pass the smell test.

 

[pnewton]

I’m not even saying to listen to me. I’m saying don’t take anything for granted and stop treating doctors like prophets.

I am treating doctor like doctors, and experts like experts. But posters here are not the only ones I do not listen to. I also do not give heed to reporters writing op-eds. That article didn’t even have anything to do with singing!

 

[Irishmom2]

Keep in mind the average IQ for doctors is estimated to be between 112-121, so it’s not like their advice is going to be the proclamations of geniuses.

You are right. We should really get our information from anonymous posters on the internet like you.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

…so says expert epidemiologist Anonkun? But the real epidemiologists are saying what I said. That is why it is not a double standard.

Just because an expert says something doesn’t mean it’s the end of the story. You need to analyze the evidence for yourself to see if it passes the smell test.

There we have it folks! More confirmation of the anti-science bias that is rampant these days. Now any backyard self-proclaimed “scientist” can put his own personal analysis on an equal level with someone who has spent his entire life studying a subject. And not only that, on an equal level with a whole ensemble of experts who have collectively spent centuries studying a subject, and all of whom disagree with the aforementioned amateur observer.

 

[pnewton]

My main point is that doctors are not immune to bias and I give their opinion only slightly more weight than that of the average joe

That is your opinion. We all decide how to weight evidence we receive.

 

[Beryllos]

There could be a whole other discussion about the the rampant problems in SK…

“SK, let me take the speck out of your eye…”

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Beryllos]

And that is on topic for which thread?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

More confirmation of the anti-science bias that is rampant these days. Now any backyard self-proclaimed “scientist” can put his own personal analysis on an equal level with someone who has spent his entire life studying a subject.

…uh…I am a scientist though…like literally I haven’t worked anywhere other than a lab or academia…

Epidemiology?

And not only that, on an equal level with a whole ensemble of experts who have collectively spent centuries studying a subject, and all of whom disagree with the aforementioned amateur observer.

A lot of my colleagues work in medicine, and they share the same concerns. Part of being a good researcher is not blindly following “settled” consensus.

Good for you. When you accumulate a reputation of doing expert work in this field, get back with us. Or better yet, publish your findings on how all the other experts got it wrong.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

No one published any papers suggesting protests are okay but worship isn’t, so I don’t see what I have to refute.

Let’s not over-generalize. The only point I was making was that there is a significant difference between indoor spread and outdoor spread in the sunshine and fresh air. That is what the experts have said. I make no claims about whether singing should be banned in church. I was specifically addressing your point that, right or wrong, the rule is a double standard. I showed that it is not, since there is a scientific basis for treating them differently. Whether that difference is enough to justify the rule is another matter.

 

[Beryllos]

Once again, there was absolutely no effort to stop protests where thousands of people gathered and destroyed property (especially near my area in LA).

It’s like raising teenagers. One kid follows the rules, you tell him to be home by 10pm, and he will do it and be better off for it. The other kid is disobedient like a dog in heat, and forget about 10pm, all you can do is tell him to try to bring the car back in one piece. What orders could the governor give to the protesters?

 

[pnewton]

No one published any papers suggesting protests are okay but worship isn’

Again with the whataboutism?

 

[Beryllos]

I think police action, rather than orders, would be appropriate here.

So you agree that orders aimed at the protesters with regard to public health would be useless. That could explain why such orders were not given.

 

[Beryllos]

Returning now to the Original Post…

I’m not even sure what to say? Protest day after day after day with no masks, but people can’t sing in church? Terrible discrimination.

Yes, it looks like discrimination. The state could have worded it better, more broadly, not singling out places of worship. But the advice itself is good. Large gatherings singing indoors should be banned for now.

If it’s any consolation, there are non-religious groups that like to gather and sing, and they are suffering under the restrictions as well. I semi-regularly participate in folk singing gatherings, and most of them have been cancelled for the summer.

But don’t worry. Be at peace. We will sing again.

 

[Peeps]

No one can stop us from singing–because we can sing in our hearts, silently. I am always singing, always making music in my heart to the Lord Jesus and to encourage myself as I live my daily life.

Every once in a while, I forget and sing out loud, or hum, and people at work or even in stores or along the street smile and say, “You sound happy today!” Well, of course I am–I know the Lord Jesus! He’s in my heart!

“In my heart there rings a melody, there rings a melody with heaven’s harmony. In my heart there rings a melody, there rings a melody of love.”

Ephesians 5: 19 says, “…as you sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs among yourselves, singing and making melody to the Lord IN YOUR HEARTS…” (caps mine).

That seems clear to me.

And there’s always humming. If we can’t sing, we can hum–maybe the churches should try it.

One more thing–at least the Catholic Mass is beautiful even without singing. But think about the poor Protestants, especially the Evangelicals, the Full Gospel Protestants, and the Pentecostals, and also the traditional Lutherans–these groups LOVE to sing and music is a major part of their worship. No singing is harder for them than for most Catholics.

 

[Dobereiner]

Given the abysmal state of music in the vast majority of Catholic churches, it strikes me as a decree that can only help worship. Deo gratia. If it helps slow the spread of Carona-19, all the better.

Too bad the Bishops didn’t ban singing 30 years ago after it was totally obvious that the quality of music in the Church had fallen to such depths.

Unfortunately, it hasn’t worked out this way at the church to which I went for my first Mass after lockdown. They had piped music which can only be described as “Gospel rock”. Soft rock, but rock nonetheless.

 

[Jeanne_S]

We haven’t been singing in our church either.A few cantors but the congregants are not allowed

 

[TepeyacTraveler]

Definitely not going to die on the hill for singing… it’s just really frustrating they can tell us what to do inside of a church that’s all. Feels like they are talking down to us. “You can all go play church now, but here are the rules”

And as mentioned earlier, if the rules were equal I would have no issue.

 

[Mrchatsworth]

A rare case of the state Caring more about good liturgy than the Church.

Just joking… But still…

 

[MrsAngelala]

The Gloria isn’t said at daily Masses either, because they are considered less special than Sunday (which is absolutely the wrong wording, but I don’t know the technical terminology for this). That doesn’t make the Gloria a minor matter.

As I tell my cantors, all you truly need for a Mass is wheat bread, grape wine, and a validly ordained priest… still, the singing is important. (And it’s supposed to be much more integral than we make it in the U.S.)