Sinless Mary and the Bible

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Cachonga:

You may not find the scriptural evidence for things like the Immaculate Conception (which is clear because that’s why were having this discussion) but I think that other things are beyond clear and one actually has to reinterpret the text to avoid the Catholic teaching on things such as the Eucharist.
 
Sorry for the delay. I’ve been out of town (and will be again early next week for some tests).
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Prieldedi:
It didn’t matter that it was not a dogma, it was believed by all so there was no point in defining it as such. The Church defines a dogma when what has been taught is challenged. The reformers didn’t challenge Mary’s purity, there was no need to define it then.
Odd. It says (in Ineffabilis Deus), “Although we knew the mind of the bishops from the petitions which we had received from them, namely, that the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin be finally defined, nevertheless, on February 2, 1849,[27] we sent an Encyclical Letter from Gaeta to all our venerable brethren, the bishops of the Catholic world, that they should offer prayers to God and then tell us in writing what the piety and devotion of their faithful was in regard to the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God. We likewise inquired what the bishops themselves thought about defining this doctrine and what their wishes were in regard to making known with all possible solemnity our supreme judgment.
We were certainly filled with the greatest consolation when the replies of our venerable brethren came to us. For, replying to us with a most enthusiastic joy, exultation and zeal, they not only again confirmed their own singular piety toward the Immaculate Conception of the most Blessed Virgin, and that of the secular and religious clergy and of the faithful, but with one voice they even entreated us to define our supreme judgment and authority the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin. In the meantime we were indeed filled with no less joy when, after a diligent examination, our venerable brethren, the cardinals of the special congregation and the theologians chosen by us as counselors (whom we mentioned above), asked with the same enthusiasm and fervor for the definition of the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God.
Consequently, following the examples of our predecessors, and desiring to proceed in the traditional manner, we announced and held a consistory, in which we addressed our brethren, the cardinals of the Holy Roman Church. It was the greatest spiritual joy for us when we heard them ask us to promulgate the dogmatic definition of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mother of God.[28]”. Sounds more like this doctrine was made a dogma by popular demand rather than any questions about her being sinless.

BTW - it does matter that it wasn’t a dogma at the time they lived. If you can’t understand why that is, we can go into a little more detail.
There weren’t a lot of church options in their day? Are you saying that Jesus failed in leaving us with several options to choose from?
Just making an observation.
The authority of the Church is the Authority of Jesus. It’s not a matter that I have to decide or choose to accept or not. If the smallest human institution, the family, has an authority, the husband, why would I think that God would give us a big institution, now that the mustard seed became a big tree, and give us a decapitated institution? No one better than God knows human nature, accordingly he saw it necessary to establish an authority at the head of the Church, the Pope and the Bishops.
I disagree with your (or the church’s) interpretation of this authority. Since church authority is not the topic of the thread, there is no need to go into details.
You have nailed it, all this division in Christianity can be resumed in one word: authority. You reject the Pope’s and Bishops’ authority. But I believe the first Christians when they said that these things were taught to them by the Apostles. I believe Jesus when He told His Apostles, “When he, the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into the whole truth.” And I believe His Church when She tells me that Mary’s purity IS important in God’s plan, and She had to be pure, as was the Ark of the Covenant, in order to receive the Living God in Her womb. There is nothing strange in this, God wanted the purest person in creation to be the Mother of His Son. He made sure She would remain pure forever. Nothing difficult to believe here, unless one rejects God’s message because one doesn’t like the messenger.
Speculation grounded in philosophy of men and the say so of a self-proclaimed “infallible” authority. Of course, I don’t expect you to believe it, but I do believe it, and that is part of why I left the Roman Catholic Church.
 
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cc42:
You may not find the scriptural evidence for things like the Immaculate Conception (which is clear because that’s why were having this discussion) but I think that other things are beyond clear and one actually has to reinterpret the text to avoid the Catholic teaching on things such as the Eucharist.
I get it! You don’t have any solid Scriptural evidence for the immaculate conception, so you’re using smoke-and-mirrors to make an off-topic claim that you think you have solid Scriptural evidence for. Change the subject – clever strategy! Move the focus of attention off the topic to a straw man – typical strategy I have observed from many catholic apologists. However, the topic is Sinless Mary and the Bible, not the Eucharist.
 
Sorry for the delay. I’ve been out of town (and will be again early next week for some tests).

Odd. It says (in Ineffabilis Deus), “Although we knew the mind of the bishops from the petitions which we had received from them, namely, that the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin be finally defined, nevertheless, on February 2, 1849,[27] we sent an Encyclical Letter from Gaeta to all our venerable brethren, the bishops of the Catholic world, that they should offer prayers to God and then tell us in writing what the piety and devotion of their faithful was in regard to the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God. We likewise inquired what the bishops themselves thought about defining this doctrine and what their wishes were in regard to making known with all possible solemnity our supreme judgment.
We were certainly filled with the greatest consolation when the replies of our venerable brethren came to us. For, replying to us with a most enthusiastic joy, exultation and zeal, they not only again confirmed their own singular piety toward the Immaculate Conception of the most Blessed Virgin, and that of the secular and religious clergy and of the faithful, but with one voice they even entreated us to define our supreme judgment and authority the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin. In the meantime we were indeed filled with no less joy when, after a diligent examination, our venerable brethren, the cardinals of the special congregation and the theologians chosen by us as counselors (whom we mentioned above), asked with the same enthusiasm and fervor for the definition of the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God.
Consequently, following the examples of our predecessors, and desiring to proceed in the traditional manner, we announced and held a consistory, in which we addressed our brethren, the cardinals of the Holy Roman Church. It was the greatest spiritual joy for us when we heard them ask us to promulgate the dogmatic definition of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mother of God.[28]”.

Sounds more like this doctrine was made a dogma by popular demand rather than any questions about her being sinless.
I mentioned before that it was believed by all Catholics. By 1849 there were more than 350 protestant denominations (today that number is more than 40,000), most of them were teaching Mary was a common woman, subject to sin like everybody else (“Because all have sinned and all fall short of the Glory of God;” Romans 3,23), so if Catholics were hearing the lies being spread by protestants, what were they to do? Sit quietly? After all, regular folks were the ones confronting this protestant lie; protestants did not go to Rome to preach there their “new” gospel face to face to the Pope and the Bishops.
BTW - it does matter that it wasn’t a dogma at the time they lived. If you can’t understand why that is, we can go into a little more detail.
The Trinity was defined when the Church was almost 400 years old. Does it mean that before the end of the 4th Century God had a different nature? No, it means that until the 4th Century the Bishops understood the true nature of God. The same principle can be applied to all dogmas.

Jesus said: “When he, the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into the whole truth.” (John 16:13)

The Spirit of Truth came after Jesus ascended to heavens. The Spirit of Truth continues to guide the Church “into the whole truth” to this day, and it did so on December 8, 1854.
Just making an observation.
I disagree with your (or the church’s) interpretation of this authority. Since church authority is not the topic of the thread, there is no need to go into details.
Speculation grounded in philosophy of men and the say so of a self-proclaimed “infallible” authority. Of course, I don’t expect you to believe it, but I do believe it, and that is part of why I left the Roman Catholic Church.
You mentioned authority first on your post #199.

“Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and what you unbind on earth shall be unbound in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19, repeated again in Matthew 18:18)

Infallibility was “bound” on earth, any idea what was “bound” on heaven?
Sinless Mary was “bound” on earth, same question.

I don’t expect you to accept this either based on what you’ve told us.
 
After nine pages i post having not seen yet what i have to post.

The gospel according to St.Luke1:46" My soul magnifies the Lord…"
Now how is it a soul that is in sin magnify that which is not in sin?
 
I get it! You don’t have any solid Scriptural evidence for the immaculate conception, so you’re using smoke-and-mirrors to make an off-topic claim that you think you have solid Scriptural evidence for. Change the subject – clever strategy! Move the focus of attention off the topic to a straw man – typical strategy I have observed from many catholic apologists. However, the topic is Sinless Mary and the Bible, not the Eucharist.
Now, the implications of all this for Luke 1:28 and the Immaculate Conception of Mary ought to be obvious by now. All of the above instances of “grace” in English are translations of the Greek charis, the root of the word used by an angel in Luke 1:28 to describe Mary: kecharitomene. From the above we learn two things, and they are biblically certain:
  1. Grace saves us.
  2. Grace gives us the power to be holy and righteous and without sin.
    Therefore, for a person to be full of grace is to both be saved and to be exceptionally, completely holy. Thus we might re-apply the above two propositions as follows:
  3. To be full of the grace which saves is to surely be saved.
  4. To be full of the grace which gives us the power to be holy and righteous and without sin, is to be fully without sin, by that same grace.
    Or, we could make the following deductive argument, with premises (#1 and #2) derived directly from Scripture:
  5. The Bible teaches that we are saved by God’s grace.
  6. The Bible teaches that we need God’s grace to live a holy life, above sin.
  7. To be “full of” God’s grace, then, is to be saved.
  8. Therefore, Mary is saved.
  9. To be “full of” God’s grace is also to be so holy that one is sinless.
  10. Therefore, Mary is holy and sinless.
  11. The essence of the Immaculate Conception is sinlessness.
  12. Therefore, the Immaculate Conception, in its essence, is directly deduced from the strong evidence of many biblical passages, which teach the doctrines of #1 and #2.
Shalom
God bless
 
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Prieldedi:
I mentioned before that it was believed by all Catholics. By 1849 there were more than 350 protestant denominations (today that number is more than 40,000), most of them were teaching Mary was a common woman, subject to sin like everybody else (“Because all have sinned and all fall short of the Glory of God;” Romans 3,23), so if Catholics were hearing the lies being spread by protestants, what were they to do? Sit quietly? After all, regular folks were the ones confronting this protestant lie; protestants did not go to Rome to preach there their “new” gospel face to face to the Pope and the Bishops.
Not just a straw man, but a very bad one! What does the number of Protestant denominations have to do with the topic? Furthermore, what is your source for the ridiculous claim of 40,000+ denominations today? Of course, you don’t have to answer these questions since they’re off topic, but I strongly suggest you review your source before making this claim!
The Trinity was defined when the Church was almost 400 years old. Does it mean that before the end of the 4th Century God had a different nature? No, it means that until the 4th Century the Bishops understood the true nature of God. The same principle can be applied to all dogmas.
This is not part of the topic, but the Trinity (unlike the immaculate conception) is clearly shown in the pages of Scripture.
“Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and what you unbind on earth shall be unbound in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19, repeated again in Matthew 18:18)
Infallibility was “bound” on earth, any idea what was “bound” on heaven?
Sinless Mary was “bound” on earth, same question.
This looks more like an abuse of the Scriptures. I don’t think this was said to allow the “infallible” magisterium to turn traditions of men into de fide dogmas of the church (I don’t think God intended for His Church to be “infallible”, but that’s another topic).
 
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fbl9:
The gospel according to St.Luke1:46" My soul magnifies the Lord…"
Now how is it a soul that is in sin magnify that which is not in sin?
Sorry you missed this point in your reading, but where does this (or any Scripture) say Mary was sinless from conception?
 
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aragonjohn1:
Now, the implications of all this for Luke 1:28 and the Immaculate Conception of Mary ought to be obvious by now. All of the above instances of “grace” in English are translations of the Greek charis, the root of the word used by an angel in Luke 1:28 to describe Mary: kecharitomene. From the above we learn two things, and they are biblically certain:

<and following…>
Congratulations! You have spent a lot of time and effort to build a case based on only 1 Scripture (Luke 1:28). Actually, your entire premise appears to be based on the single word kecharitomene. Too bad you didn’t seem to catch what was said about this before. Rather than go through your syllogism line by line, I’ll skip down to #8 (Therefore, the Immaculate Conception, in its essence, is directly deduced from the strong evidence of many biblical passages, which teach the doctrines of #1 and #2.).

The tense of the word does indicate this filling took place before the Angel spoke to Mary, but it doesn’t say WHEN! So, what in the verse or the word makes it clear this was from conception? What other Biblical passages (which you never mentioned what you were referring to) would show this was from conception? I would hope you would go back over what has already been written and avoid repeating what has already been addressed.
 
Sorry you missed this point in your reading, but where does this (or any Scripture) say Mary was sinless from conception?
Please tell me how, as an unregenerated sinner, your soul could magnify the Lord.

Sorry it twas you that missed the point of the scripture.
 
Cachonga:

I have given you evidence for the Immaculate Conception which I consider to be good enough on its own. But if you don’t find good enough I think there is substantially enough evidence that the Church is correct in her teachings that even if there wasn’t good evidence for the Immaculate Conception I still trust the Church’s proclamation.
 
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fbl9:
Please tell me how, as an unregenerated sinner, your soul could magnify the Lord.

Sorry it twas you that missed the point of the scripture.
An unregenerate sinner cannot magnify the Lord. However, this occurred AFTER the visitation by the Angel! What in this verse requires you to believe this “sinless” state was from conception? (NOTE – I am not conceding that Mary was sinless, but I do accept that she may have been cleansed by God at any point in her life). Whether or not Mary was sinless, I don’t see how this could possibly be something we, as Christians, MUST believe (otherwise I believe God would have made mention of it in His written word).
 
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cc42:
I have given you evidence for the Immaculate Conception which I consider to be good enough on its own. But if you don’t find good enough I think there is substantially enough evidence that the Church is correct in her teachings that even if there wasn’t good evidence for the Immaculate Conception I still trust the Church’s proclamation.
And there it is – You believe it because the Church says so! I admit that God COULD have cleansed Mary from all stain of sin at any point in her life, but there is absolutely nothing in Scripture that would make me believe that such an action (if it WAS done) had to have been from conception. I don’t think we have anything more to say on this, do you?
 
Not just a straw man, but a very bad one! What does the number of Protestant denominations have to do with the topic? Furthermore, what is your source for the ridiculous claim of 40,000+ denominations today? Of course, you don’t have to answer these questions since they’re off topic, but I strongly suggest you review your source before making this claim!

This is not part of the topic, but the Trinity (unlike the immaculate conception) is clearly shown in the pages of Scripture.

This looks more like an abuse of the Scriptures. I don’t think this was said to allow the “infallible” magisterium to turn traditions of men into de fide dogmas of the church (I don’t think God intended for His Church to be “infallible”, but that’s another topic).
What does the number of Protestant denominations have to do with the topic? Much, because before their appearance all Christians accepted sinless Mary.

Source for the ridiculous claim of 40,000+ denominations today? Well, not ridiculous according to the World Christian Encyclopedia, a Protestant publication, as it records that there were 38,000 non-Catholic Christian churches in the world as of April, 2006. It has been established that in the USA alone about 5 new independent Christian churches are born each week. That would give us at least an additional 1,630 new churches in the US from May 2007 to the end of July 2012. The other 371 churches have been born outside the US. There you have the 40,000+ non Catholic Christian churches.

Sinless Mary is shown as clearly as the Trinity in the passages of the Bible.

The Church wasn’t born by reading and then interpreting the Scriptures, as most Protestant churches are born. The Church was established by Jesus who commanded His Apostles to preach (no to WRITE) the Good News. The Apostles decided to write part of the Good News (the Bible) which doesn’t mean that the Bible contains all the teachings the Apostles received directly from Jesus, or from the Holy Spirit. So not everything Jesus said and taught His Apostles is in the Bible (John 21:25), the rest in contained in the Tradition, which by the way is now in the written form, but non Catholics reject these writings. Odd, because they accept the Bible as the Word of God because the Catholic Church said it is so. This is how we know that Mary was born Sinless, because Her Son, the Son of God needed to dwell in the purest womb of a Woman, a Woman who the Father prophesied He would keep from sin (Genesis 3:15)… Sinless Mary, as clear as the Trinity.
 
I rely on no other teaching but the Word of God to help me understand truth by His Spirit :
2 Timothy 3:16, 17

All scripture is God breathed - for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 17) so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
I rely on no other teaching but the Word of God to help me understand truth by His Spirit :
2 Timothy 3:16, 17

All scripture is God breathed - for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 17) so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Who teaches? Who rebukes? Who corrects? Who trains?.. anyone, any Bible reader?

Read 2 Timothy 3:16-17 alongside with Romans 10:14-15:

14 But how can they call upon the name of the Lord without having believed in him? And how can they believe in him without having first heard about him? And how will they hear about him if no one preaches about him?
15 And how will they preach about him if no one sends them? As Scripture says: How beautiful to see those coming to bring good news.


The teacher (preacher) has to be sent by someone. I can’t send my friend to preach because I have no authority, I have no right to do so. Only those appointed by Jesus can send someone to teach.

“So he appointed twelve to be with him; and he called them apostles. He wanted to send them out to preach.” (Mark 3:14)

“Those who speak on their own authority wish to gain honor for themselves. But the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is truthful and there is no reason to doubt him.” (John 7:18)

Jesus sent His Apostles to preach to the whole world, they ordained bishops and priests to continue preaching up to this day. Those who grab a Bible and decide to go out and preach do it on their own, they “haven’t been sent”, which Paul says is not permitted:

“And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.” (Hebrew 5:4)
 
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Prieldedi:
What does the number of Protestant denominations have to do with the topic? Much, because before their appearance all Christians accepted sinless Mary.
I disagree with this. Before the doctrine became a de fide dogma, people in the Church were free to believe or disbelieve, according to their conscience. Once it was made a dogma, the freedom was taken away, and it became a matter of “believe, or else…”
Source for the ridiculous claim of 40,000+ denominations today? Well, not ridiculous according to the World Christian Encyclopedia, a Protestant publication, as it records that there were 38,000 non-Catholic Christian churches in the world as of April, 2006. It has been established that in the USA alone about 5 new independent Christian churches are born each week. That would give us at least an additional 1,630 new churches in the US from May 2007 to the end of July 2012. The other 371 churches have been born outside the US. There you have the 40,000+ non Catholic Christian churches.
Now I’m very curious. The most recent edition I can find is from Jan, 2001 (looking on Amazon). I checked the Oxford University Press, and they don’t even have it listed. Where did your copy come from? Just to clarify things, more than 2/3rds of the denominations are “non-denominational” denominations, and they use “Christian” in a very broad sense (for example, they don’t have a problem including several Mormon and Jehovah Witness denominations). What I find really interesting is that they also include (in the 2001 edition) over 1,000 Catholic denominations. To be fair, 242 are Roman Catholic denominations, but either way, it makes it a little difficult to determine which Catholic denomination is the “one, true, Holy Church”. Perhaps they’re counting denominations in a way that you wouldn’t accept for your church? If so, why insist that the unfair method be applied to non catholic denominations?

It also appears that you are confusing “churches” with “denominations”. While this may be somewhat true for how the non-denominational denominations are being counted, it doesn’t always work out that way (otherwise I’m sure there would be more than 242 Roman Catholic denominations).
Sinless Mary is shown as clearly as the Trinity in the passages of the Bible.
I’ve heard the assertion many times. I have yet to see any proof of the claim. I do, however, see plenty of evidence in Scripture for the doctrine of the Trinity.
The Church wasn’t born by reading and then interpreting the Scriptures, as most Protestant churches are born. The Church was established by Jesus who commanded His Apostles to preach (no to WRITE) the Good News. The Apostles decided to write part of the Good News (the Bible) which doesn’t mean that the Bible contains all the teachings the Apostles received directly from Jesus, or from the Holy Spirit. So not everything Jesus said and taught His Apostles is in the Bible (John 21:25), the rest in contained in the Tradition, which by the way is now in the written form, but non Catholics reject these writings. Odd, because they accept the Bible as the Word of God because the Catholic Church said it is so. This is how we know that Mary was born Sinless, because Her Son, the Son of God needed to dwell in the purest womb of a Woman, a Woman who the Father prophesied He would keep from sin (Genesis 3:15)… Sinless Mary, as clear as the Trinity.
Unproven assertions. God (the Holy Spirit) inspired the writers of the NT to write, and He certainly led them to include what He considered important. While we know not everything Jesus said or did is written down, how do you know we don’t have everything He taught recorded for us? I know, we don’t have everything He said or did recorded for us, but does that mean that the teachings we have are somehow insufficient to know what He expects from us? In light of 2 Tim 3:16-17, I would assert that we have everything we need in Scripture to live a successful Christian life.

It definitely comes down to final authority. I look to the Scriptures and find no reason to believe in the immaculate conception (even though I readily admit it could have happened). You (and Catholics in general) accept it on nothing more than the say so of the “infallible” teaching magisterium of the church. You accept and defend, without question, the “evidence” you are given by the church. I don’t think we have anything more to say on this, do you?
 
Congratulations! You have spent a lot of time and effort to build a case based on only 1 Scripture (Luke 1:28). Actually, your entire premise appears to be based on the single word kecharitomene. Too bad you didn’t seem to catch what was said about this before. Rather than go through your syllogism line by line, I’ll skip down to #8 (Therefore, the Immaculate Conception, in its essence, is directly deduced from the strong evidence of many biblical passages, which teach the doctrines of #1 and #2.).

The tense of the word does indicate this filling took place before the Angel spoke to Mary, but it doesn’t say WHEN! So, what in the verse or the word makes it clear this was from conception? What other Biblical passages (which you never mentioned what you were referring to) would show this was from conception? I would hope you would go back over what has already been written and avoid repeating what has already been addressed.
Luke 1:28. Catholics believe that this verse is an indication of the sinlessness of Mary - itself the kernel of the more developed doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. But that is not apparent at first glance (especially if the verse is translated “highly favored,” which does not bring to mind sinlessness in present-day language).
Note: Saint John never mentioned Mary by name.
John 1:10-14 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Note: Only Jesus Christ is full of grace and truth.
*

Therefore, for a person to be full of grace is both to be saved and to be completely, exceptionally holy. It is a “zero-sum game”: the more grace one has, the less sin. One might look at grace as water, and sin as the air in an empty glass (us). When you pour in the water (grace), the sin (air) is displaced. A full glass of water, therefore, contains no air. To be full of grace is to be devoid of sin.
Note: It is only through faith in Jesus Christ that the grace of God can be accessed.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Note: Only Jesus Christ is full of grace and truth.
Shalom
God bless
 
I disagree with this. Before the doctrine became a de fide dogma, people in the Church were free to believe or disbelieve, according to their conscience. Once it was made a dogma, the freedom was taken away, and it became a matter of “believe, or else…”
You were always required to believe. Look at Paul in his letter to the Galatians:

“I am surprised at how quickly you have abandoned God who called you according to the grace of Christ, and have gone to another gospel.”

Galatians were in disbelief and Paul told them they had gone to another Gospel, just like protestants and whoever rejects the teachings of the Church.
Now I’m very curious. The most recent edition I can find is from Jan, 2001 (looking on Amazon). I checked the Oxford University Press, and they don’t even have it listed. Where did your copy come from? Just to clarify things, more than 2/3rds of the denominations are “non-denominational” denominations, and they use “Christian” in a very broad sense (for example, they don’t have a problem including several Mormon and Jehovah Witness denominations). What I find really interesting is that they also include (in the 2001 edition) over 1,000 Catholic denominations. To be fair, 242 are Roman Catholic denominations, but either way, it makes it a little difficult to determine which Catholic denomination is the “one, true, Holy Church”. Perhaps they’re counting denominations in a way that you wouldn’t accept for your church? If so, why insist that the unfair method be applied to non catholic denominations?
It also appears that you are confusing “churches” with “denominations”. While this may be somewhat true for how the non-denominational denominations are being counted, it doesn’t always work out that way (otherwise I’m sure there would be more than 242 Roman Catholic denominations).
From Bob Stanley, a Catholic apologist. He has a 2006 version of it. The World Christian Encyclopedia is a protestant publications, seeing there are so many protestant churches/denominations it tries to place the same division among Catholics, calling the local Catholic authorities as different churches, which we are not because all Catholics are under the Pope. Nationalities do no apply to the Catholic Church as they do in the Orthodox Church.

When someone asks “what’s your church?”, the answer is not “my denomination is Baptist”. They all call it church, they are registered as churches, they have tax exemption as churches, not denominations. And they all teach a different gospel, not so in the Catholic Church. Every mass is the same in all Catholic churches (the buildings) around the world every day, every Sunday. Same lecture of the Gospel, same lecture from the Old Testament and the epistles. We are one whole body. Not so in the protestant churches. The local pastor decides what’s he gonna preach each sunday. Across the street there might be a different protestant church and it’s pastor will preach something else. There is no unity among protestants, perhaps the only thing that unites them is their rejection of the Catholic Church.
I’ve heard the assertion many times. I have yet to see any proof of the claim. I do, however, see plenty of evidence in Scripture for the doctrine of the Trinity.
Unproven assertions. God (the Holy Spirit) inspired the writers of the NT to write, and He certainly led them to include what He considered important. While we know not everything Jesus said or did is written down, how do you know we don’t have everything He taught recorded for us? I know, we don’t have everything He said or did recorded for us, but does that mean that the teachings we have are somehow insufficient to know what He expects from us? In light of 2 Tim 3:16-17, I would assert that we have everything we need in Scripture to live a successful Christian life.
It definitely comes down to final authority. I look to the Scriptures and find no reason to believe in the immaculate conception (even though I readily admit it could have happened). You (and Catholics in general) accept it on nothing more than the say so of the “infallible” teaching magisterium of the church. You accept and defend, without question, the “evidence” you are given by the church. I don’t think we have anything more to say on this, do you?
I’ve showed you that part of the Gospels were told to the Gospel writers by the Virgin Mary, and the Holy Spirit INSPIRED HER to include what was important.

Why do you believe Napoleon existed? Well, because like everyone else you look at what historians have told about him in the last 200 years. The Catholic Church has its historians too. It started with the NT writers and continued with what we call the Church Fathers, who like the historians that tell you about Napoleon (whom you believe), wrote what they learned from the Apostles themselves (whom you don’t believe), which is what was contained in the NT plus a more detailed and comprehensive account of the Christian doctrine. Jesus said:

“Go, therefore, and make disciples from all nations. Baptize them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACH THEM TO FULFILL ALL THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. I am with you always until the end of this world.” (Matthew 28:19-20)

If all that He commanded them is not in the Bible, where is the rest? It’s in what the Apostles told their successors. That’s where it is. We Catholics accept it because there is no reason to deny Jesus, not the Apostles, but Jesus, for He said “I am with you always until the end of this world”. And the Catholic Church is the only church that can trace its roots back to the very Apostles. That’s why I believe in the Church, because first I believe in Jesus and His promise.
 
An unregenerate sinner cannot magnify the Lord. However, this occurred AFTER the visitation by the Angel! What in this verse requires you to believe this “sinless” state was from conception? (NOTE – I am not conceding that Mary was sinless, but I do accept that she may have been cleansed by God at any point in her life). Whether or not Mary was sinless, I don’t see how this could possibly be something we, as Christians, MUST believe (otherwise I believe God would have made mention of it in His written word).
You must accept she was sinless at the time of her visiting Elizabeth.
Which verse specially states that God tells us that only His written word is needed.Don’t bother cause we both know no such verse exists. So now you beleive that which is not written in God’s Word. We do have verses telling us that everything is not written down.

Also you “accept” something that is not written down.
 
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