Sinning on CAF?

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Claire_from_DE

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I don’t mean getting into bad arguments. Here it is 8:15. I’ve stayed up all night doing emails, googling a couple things, but mostly being on CAF. I think this is pretty bad. The time goes so fast. I’m retired so it won’t affect my work day. But I know my spiritual director would strongly disapprove. I’m really disappointed that I did it and I’ll shortly go to mass and I’m sure this isn’t mortally sinful but definitely disobedient to what I know God wants of me. I rarely, almost never, stay up all night but often stay up too late.

Is this common with others of you? How do you discipline yourselves to get off the computer? Right now I feel badly enough to welcome suggestions, serious ones. Now I’m shutting this computer down. Thanks for any help you can give me.
 
Before I had the baby, I would sometimes be on CAF more than I should. That is why I’d actually give it up during Lent. With the baby, I’m not on it too long - just here and there to keep my adult mind going if you know what I mean, and to take a break from work and music. But I’m actually trying to wean myself off, as I admit it can be a little addictive. I’ve been visiting a St. Clare convent chapel with the baby to just have some quiet time and prayer and each time I go, I keep hearing in my head that I should stop doing CAF altogether. So, little by little I’ve been weaning myself off and have been on here less. Although I do enjoy doing these discussions, in one respect, I do feel guilty that I’ve wasted 15-20 minutes which could have gone towards learning a new music score, working, networking for music performances, doing some gardening and cleaning the house. (The baby is usually sleeping if I go on the computer.)

Anyway… my suggestion would be to have some serious prayer and find out what God may want you to do. That is what worked for me. Other ways is to just be as strict as possible with yourself like a kid. Set a time that you can be on CAF and if you go past that time, give yourself a “punishment” of some sort.
 
It can be pretty tricky, I think.

I think I was addicted to the ego trip of being able to post opinions on these highly personal topics, and then seeing how people all over the world reacted – and I know that one way or another I’ve touched people. I love that feedback when I say something I know is kind and can’t wait for the praise to roll in. My pride wants to see people agree with me and tell me I’m great or at least important, and that I have helped them in some way. I’m sure there are other sins and excesses that explain why I can’t get off the keyboard sometimes.

There have been times when I actually had to “fast” from CAF, trying to break these compulsive behaviors.

As far as bad arguments, do you mean that you let what others say get to you? Well, I finally figured out that nearly everybody here is trying to love the others, even though it sounds like they come across judgmental. Gosh, if I think they are judgmental, it can only that I have so judged. I used to be drawn to conflict like a moth to a flame, until I got too close and got “burned.” Then I didn’t post for a week, and it did me good. In the meanwhile I looked at ongoing threads and imagined different ways of saying things such that they would be respectful and not have built-in innuendos. What I found so far is that when I treat others with respect, they usually do it back.

I mention all that, because before, I would get so involved in a negative debate that I felt it was a matter of Personal Justice to see the next post and Respond In Kind whatever it was. It was very disturbing to see this part of myself, but again a “fast” from posting could be just what the doctor ordered … like it sounds like you’re doing right now anyway.

I’m hardly the one to advise on spending to much time on CAF, so take it as the musings of a fellow overposter.

Alan
 
How do you discipline yourselves to get off the computer?
This is going to seem like a weird suggestion, and I’ve only been doing it for a few weeks so I don’t know if it will last. But here it is.

Do you happen to have a Nintendo DS? I got the “game” Personal Trainer: Walking. It includes a couple of pedometers. It tracks the rhythm of your walking during the day. It also tells you what your longest idle period was. (BTW, I don’t think it records movement of less than 10 seconds so taking a stretch won’t count.) It’s embarrassing to me for the game to tell me that I spent, e.g. 3 hours as a lump, so the pedometer has made me conscious of spending long periods sitting and I do it less. Also it tracks when you start and stop moving each day, with the new day starting at 3am. Knowing that there’s going to be a record of me staying up too late helps me not to do it.

Anyway, the thing about the idle time is that if you can just physically get up and walk away from the computer for a bit, that addictive sort of reading can be broken and you can remember how tired you are, how late it is, how depressing it is in the summer when the sky starts getting light at like 5am and how you’d like to miss it, etc.

Probably a normal pedometer with a computer link would do the same without needing to buy a game system if you don’t have it already, or failing that, you could just set an alarm for yourself that, say, once an hour went off and you had to get up and leave the room and do something (no matter how small) before coming back. Just to break the concentration and remember the outside world.

It’s the losing track of how long it’s been and being able to think only about what I’m reading, rather than things like how important it is to sleep that gets me. Maybe you’re the same?

–Jen
 
You can configure your router to not allow internet access between the hours of 1am and 7 am 🙂 You’ll alwaysbe able to just change the settings if you really want to stay up but at least it will have to be a specific choice and you won’t just “lose track of time”…

God Bless 🙂
 
I don’t mean getting into bad arguments. Here it is 8:15. I’ve stayed up all night doing emails, googling a couple things, but mostly being on CAF. I think this is pretty bad. The time goes so fast. I’m retired so it won’t affect my work day. But I know my spiritual director would strongly disapprove. I’m really disappointed that I did it and I’ll shortly go to mass and I’m sure this isn’t mortally sinful but definitely disobedient to what I know God wants of me. I rarely, almost never, stay up all night but often stay up too late.

Is this common with others of you? How do you discipline yourselves to get off the computer? Right now I feel badly enough to welcome suggestions, serious ones. Now I’m shutting this computer down. Thanks for any help you can give me.
i fail to see how staying up and posting on a Catholic Forum could be a sin unless you are cursing people out even if you stay up all night…
 
i fail to see how staying up and posting on a Catholic Forum could be a sin unless you are cursing people out even if you stay up all night…
For myself, I found I can become so obsessed with it that I neglect my duties as head of household. 😦
1 Tim 5:8:
And whoever does not provide for relatives and especially family members has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
OK, so maybe that’s a little harsh. :rolleyes:

Alan
 
May God’s Peace, Love & Mercy be with you and to all!

In order to know if we are sinning on CAF, we will have to ask ourselves what are we doing on CAF and sincerely answer that question. Is it to argue with other posters? Is it so we can show off our knowledge to other people, that we are better than others? Is it to help counsel others, pray for them? Is it to bear witness to God’s Truth, to share the beauty of our awesome Catholic Faith? Is it so others will come to know God & His Goodness? Is it to encourage and inspire others in their journey towards our Good God?

We alone can answer these questions. If when we are on CAF and our intention & action is to draw people towards our Good God, then we are not offending God provided that it is not excessive to the point that we neglect our family, work & obligations in our daily life.

May God bless you and all!
 
Hi Claire,

Nice to meet another retiree! 🙂 I am one who has a lot of free time in the winter, and this can be much more absorbing to me than at other seasons when I am extremely busy outdoors. Sinful? No, I don’t think so at all, UNLESS this pasttime involves us in reading too many negative threads that put us into a funk, or cause us to doubt certain aspects of our faith.

There have been times when I am instantly aware of being in a sour mood even as I log on, due to remembrance of some of these threads. That’s a definite no-no that I’m sure in my own life the Spirit is saying “don’t even go there!”

Otherwise, if we use the internet as our gift to God, begging His grace to encourage others and help them find their way, and then leave with a sense of peace and “well done, faithful servant …” then this activity is elevated to a higher plane, even if hours have been spent doing it. We simply need to keep watch over the movements of our heart, and recognize when it’s time to let go.

I like the old series with Sgt. Friday, who coined the expression, “Just the facts, ma’am.” There is a member here at CAF who posts iotas of truth, and then moves on, never going back to see whether or not anyone else accepted it. That’s true inner freedom, in my book. So many times, I think about this person when I am posting, and I hope to have the strength to follow.
 
I agree that CAF gives us amazing power to convey our thoughts, however feebly at times!

Can you imagine what St. Paul might have done if he had had the Internet?

Alan
 
Thanks to all of you. One thing I decided, after praying about it, is to set the timer for 30 minutes and to actually shut down the computer when it goes off and get up and walk out of the room. Maybe that will give me time to think about if I should really get back on it at that time.

I know being on CAF isn’t sinful (well, maybe a pride thing going on sometimes with me) but I’m trying to be careful about misusing my time which is a gift from God and I should be attentive to how He wants me to use it. But I have a problem giving Him control over this part of my life. So far I’m not doing too well but I’ll keep trying.
 
I know being on CAF isn’t sinful (well, maybe a pride thing going on sometimes with me) but I’m trying to be careful about misusing my time which is a gift from God and I should be attentive to how He wants me to use it. But I have a problem giving Him control over this part of my life. So far I’m not doing too well but I’ll keep trying.
For me it really is a time management issue. Some days I KNOW I have not been a good steward of the time God has given me. I’ve been trying different techniques to set time limits for myself, and that is helping. I work from home and I need the Internet for parts of my job, which complicates things, but I think just being more aware of the potential problem is helping me stay on track. There’s still a lot of room for improvement, though, and you’re definitely not alone! 🙂
 
I agree that CAF gives us amazing power to convey our thoughts, however feebly at times!

Can you imagine what St. Paul might have done if he had had the Internet?

Alan
Unfortunately, Saint Paul probably would have been buried in flames everytime he posted and overzealous moderators would have banned him for the Letter to Philemon. That and most of the replies would have been “You said ‘who’ instead of ‘whom’ you ignorant fool. Where’d you ever learn to speak ancient Greek anyway?”
 
I know being on CAF isn’t sinful (well, maybe a pride thing going on sometimes with me) but I’m trying to be careful about misusing my time which is a gift from God and I should be attentive to how He wants me to use it. But I have a problem giving Him control over this part of my life. So far I’m not doing too well but I’ll keep trying.
Claire, I’m so with you on every bit of this! I’m going to need more help to set limits, though. You’ve started on a good path, and I really admire that.

Betsy
 
I really liked this question. It gives me a chance to share what the Franciscan Brothers of Life do with this. I’ll explain our policy first and then the why.

Our policy is that participation on CAF and any other social networking is by permission only. If the superior of the house does not grant the permission, you may not do it. Generally, it’s reserved only for the superior of the house, because he does not need permission.

Let me go to the why. There are several reasons and all have to do with sin.

There is an exposure to sin that is inevitable. We do not live in bubbles. We take buses, walk the street, live with other people and so forth. We’re going to be exposed to sin, because we’re exposed to human beings. We’re exposed to each other’s virtues and sinfulness.

On the other hand, there is also an exposure to sin that is avoidable. Just as you do not watch a dirty movie, because it’s avoidable, you have a moral duty not to expose yourself to immoral behavior: lack of charity, injustice, judging others, ridiculing and humiliating others, unnecessary anger, hostility, rudeness and so forth. There is enough of that that we cannot avoid. The question is why knowingly go where we will find more of it, if we do not have to do so?

Some people will say that they have to expose themselves to such sins on CAF, because they come to learn and evangelize. These sins are a type of occupational hazard. If this is true, then one is not culpable, because one needs to be here. If it’s not true, then one is culpable of placing himself or herself in the proximity of sin unnecessarily. Only you know how much exposure you can tolerate before you begin to react in a sinful manner.

I often find myself dropping a thread when I reach the point where I am feeling hostility toward the other person or persons on the thread. Hostility is not a virtue. It is a sin and it is one that I can avoid by getting out of the thread.

One of my ministries is to evangelize using the internet. It’s part of the mission of my order to spread the Gospel of Life through all means possible. All of our brothers use technology at some point or another and of some kind or another. But we restrict its use too. If a brother’s duties not not require that he use this technology, then it’s not allowed.

As several people have said, if it interferes with other duties, if it interferes with care for your health and appropriate rest, then it is wrong to be here. In addition to this, there is the other reality, the exposure to sin and the temptation to sin is here. Each of us must be honest enough to know when enough is enough before we begin to sin in response to the sins of another.

This is very interesting. There was a time when many religious used the internet for all kinds of ministries. But today, most religious orders regulate it and even censor it. These fora have become more than just a means to evangelize. They have also become a way of spewing out a lot of hate, anger and judgment. We don’t have to deal with that.

We must help each other to avoid hate, uncontrolled anger and judgment of others. We begin by helping ourselves. There are ther two criteria.

If being on CAF takes you away from what you should be doing, then being here is sinful.

Second, if you are exposing yourself to sin, unnecessarily and you know that you’re doing it, then you should ask youself a few questions. Not everyone has the same strength. Some people can be in the middle of a war zone and remain as cool as a cucumber. Other people begin to feel anger, hostility and begin to get ugly toward others or become so self-righteous that they are arrogant. This group of people needs to stay away from this space, just as you would stay away from any other place that is not spiritually beneficial to you.

Thank you for this thread. That’s a wonderful question.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
There is an exposure to sin that is inevitable. We do not live in bubbles. We take buses, walk the street, live with other people and so forth. We’re going to be exposed to sin, because we’re exposed to human beings. We’re exposed to each other’s virtues and sinfulness.
Thanks for sharing, Brother JR. Exposure to sin while in public is not inevitable, though, as God can bestow a grace where no sin is seen at all.

.
 
Thanks for sharing, Brother JR. Exposure to sin while in public is not inevitable, though, as God can bestow a grace where no sin is seen at all.
.
Bold is mine. I never thought of this. I have to think about this. I have never seen this concept in Mystical and Ascetical Theology. But it is an interesting statement.

I know that great men and women have been able to see past the sin and see the sinner as a brothers or sister. I know that our Holy Father Francis reminded us (the brothers and sisters) to look at a sinner and ask ourselves if there is a sinner greater than I am. This certainly helps to keep one in one’s place. The last thing that one wants to do is to start a mental competition on who is more sinful, you or I.

But the idea that there is a grace not to see sin, is new to me. I’ve never thought or heard of it. It does not mean that you’re wrong. It’s just interesting.

Moving right along, exposure to sin while in public can be minimized. Common sense tells us that we’re going to be exposed to sin when around human beings. But there is the posibility of reducing the exposure by limiting where we go or even how long we stay.

I’m reminded of something in the Constitutions of the Brothers of Life. It says that **“the brothers shall avoid contact with the world so as to reduce the contact with sin; but they are forbidden to avoid contact with the sinner. The sinner must always be embraced as our Holy Father Francis embraced the leper.” ** The wole idea is that you go about in the world not looking for sin. It will find you and when it does, embrace the sinner, not the sin.

To do so, you must remain calm. This is where the contact with the world enters the picture. The brothers are never to adopt for themselves the arrogance of the world. We are to stay clear of it. The arrogance of which our consitutions speak is often found on CAF. It’s spiritual arrogance, speaking or acting as if I or the other person is free of Original Sin. I saw something akin to this on another thread when a poster said to a priest, “No TLM priest would never do that.”

The priest, whom I happen to know outside of CAF and who is a very holy man, simply asked how one could be so sure that person X would never do such a thing. That’s one of the sinful behaviors that is often found in the world, the assumptions that we make. Our constitution warns us to avoid the world. When we avoid the world we reduce our contact with asumptions of holiness on the part of individuals who see themselves as such and assumptions of sinfulness on the part of individuals who assume that they can call other people sinful or that they can tell whether another person is truly praying or worshiping.

The world of assumptions is a very dangerous one. If being on CAF leads one to make assumptions about others and about situations and these assumptions are not always the kindest and have no grounding in any fact that we can prove, then this is a part of CAF that must be avoided as an occassion of sin.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JR,

Thank you for another excellent post. 👍

The idea of “looking past the sin” and “not seeing sin” is a topic I brought up in other threads and pretty much got shot down. Maybe it’s because I didn’t know how to word it properly.

As I studied the NT more and more, I concluded that the only way we really can believe another person has sinned, is by judging the sin/sinner combination as being guilty.

God removes our sins as far as the east is from the west, and we are to be perfect as him so that’s how we are supposed to do, I imagine.

God is timeless, so whether He judges something as sin before or after the act, is irrelevant. If He can judge it in advance (like Judas for example, maybe) then can He not also forgive it in advance? What does “in advance” mean, when referring to God?

Why can’t we take an extreme position on forgiveness – one that is no less radical than “be perfect.” Can we actually forgive so convincingly and so predictably, that we don’t even have to go to the trouble of judging first, so that we even know there’s a sin?

To me it’s like the difference between saying, “I know you have sinned because I have so judged, but I will not condemn you because that is not my will.” (Kind of like the way Our Lord talked to the adulteress, who must have sinned according to Him.) or, “I’m not going to charge you with committing a sin in the first place, at least not in my beam-filled eye.”

It all makes sense to me, but the biggest valid objection/discussion I’ve heard is where St. Paul tells us to correct and admonish one another. Do we not have to judge actions as sinful in order to do that?

Alan
 
Brother JR, I don’t mean to diverge from the original post, but this grace can be found in everyone in the sense that no one can see hidden sins. To be able to read other’s sinful thoughts or to know their sinful deeds would be very grating.

But the grace I was meaning was more of a childlike trust and openness which we are all called to strive for, and as you pointed out a saint sees God in people, and not their sins. I suppose, though, that the minds of saints are not always in such a lofty place and once they come down, so to speak, then they can charitably address the sins they might then see in others.

.
 
I can see that the question that is arising here is the question of admonition, as St. Paul calls it. To really understand what St. Paul is speaking about we would do well to look at those saints whom the Church has identified as coming the closest to the perfection of Christianity. Right now there are two that to who the Church attributes this achievement. Before going on, this in no way takes away from the holiness of other saints. In fact, the saints are the first to admit when someone else has more expertise on the practice of virtue. The two saints that the Church always calls to mind are the models of the “Perfect Christian” are St. Francis of Assisi and Bl. Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

St. Francis wrote much more on fraternal correction that Mother did. But both of them certainly taught it to their spiritual children and to the world. Let’s use St. Francis, because we can go to his writings on this matter. Francis writes a great deal about fraternal correction. Our rule has an entire chapter on the subject. He went on to write admonitions for all kinds of people. What are admonitions if not fraternal correction.

But look at how he interprets Paula and how he applies Pauline admonition. History considers him to be the master of Pauline applications. If we read Francis’ admonitions they have two qualities about them. The first quality is preventative. An admonition does not always wait for someone to do wrong. It can be a warning of something wrong and how to avoid it. Francis does this quite a bit. He speaks of many moral situations and he gives encouragement and advice on how to avoid these pitfalls. The beautiful part of it is that he is to the point, but never blunt. There is almost a poetic beauty in his admonitions. The beauty comes from his great love for his audience. When you read his admonitions, he can feel his love for the intended listener. This is the first virtue that we must practice. We must admonish or warn the brother or sister of the pitfalls. But before we do, we must do what Francis did. Francis did a great deal of penance for those who do not do penance for himself. He also spent long hours asking God to give him true love for those who sinned or could sin. By the time that he gets around to writing his admonitions, he has had years of penance and prayer for the people whom he’s going to admonish. It’s fascinating to see that he does not begin his spiritual journey by correcting others. He begins by correcting himself. The first thing that he achieves is love for himself, even though he knows that his is the most wretched sinner.
 
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