Sister going to do the "Homily" in my Parish...

[scylla]

What should I do? I know this is prohibited yet I am scheduled to serve at Mass. There is a sister scheduled to give a homily, instead of the Priest, yet this is being called a “talk” and since this is a yearly thing, people hardly blink anymore.

What should I do? I called the office of worship in my diocese and they said that canon law was so involved that we really couldn’t say it was wrong. So even if some people, as they said, quoted a document prohibiting it, this was only part of the picture and that it we couldn’t determine that it was wrong.

The lady then did not want to discuss this with me and suggested I just go along with it and see how it is, and call back afterward. Then I got cut off and when I called back they lady said that I had received my answer and there was no more to say…(which seemed pretty dishonest but what could I do, I am just Joe pewsitter)

Should I just not serve and go to Mass or should I still be an MC that day and serve. I am not sure I can honestly participate as an MC knowing what I know. Life would have been easier if I didn’t read Redemptionis Sacramentum, but now what do I do?
Am I culpable for supporting the sin of disobedience by serving, I am the only person scheduled to serve as MC…

Any thoughts would be appreciated,
Scylla

 

[Tietjen]

What should I do? I know this is prohibited yet I am scheduled to serve at Mass. There is a sister scheduled to give a homily, instead of the Priest, yet this is being called a “talk” and since this is a yearly thing, people hardly blink anymore.

What should I do? I called the office of worship in my diocese and they said that canon law was so involved that we really couldn’t say it was wrong. So even if some people, as they said, quoted a document prohibiting it, this was only part of the picture and that it we couldn’t determine that it was wrong.

The lady then did not want to discuss this with me and suggested I just go along with it and see how it is, and call back afterward. Then I got cut off and when I called back they lady said that I had received my answer and there was no more to say…(which seemed pretty dishonest but what could I do, I am just Joe pewsitter)

Should I just not serve and go to Mass or should I still be an MC that day and serve. I am not sure I can honestly participate as an MC knowing what I know. Life would have been easier if I didn’t read Redemptionis Sacramentum, but now what do I do?
Am I culpable for supporting the sin of disobedience by serving, I am the only person scheduled to serve as MC…

Any thoughts would be appreciated,
Scylla

Forgive my ignorance, but what is an MC? Also, is there any possibility that you might be able to speak to the Bishop prior to the Mass? Is the Mass in question this Sunday or next? If there’s still time, perhaps you should try to speak to the Bishop. As far as you being culpable, I don’t think that is an issue. You are obviously not supporting the situation and have actually taken action to try to stop it. I would not be a “no show” for your responsibility at Mass. Regardless of whether the Priest is or is not allowing an abuse to take place; we serve Christ not the Priest. If this situation is brushed under the carpet and not stopped, perhaps you might think about looking at other parishes. I know that each time I have moved, I have had to try several parishes in the new area to find one that actually followed the GIRM and upheld Catholic doctrine. Believe me, I can tell you some horror stories.

 

[Tedster]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is an MC?

Master of Ceremonies. It is a server, usually an acolyte, that oversees the mass.

From Wiki:

The term originates from the Catholic Church. The Master of Ceremonies is an official of the Papal Court responsible for the proper and smooth conduct of the elegant and elaborate rituals involving the Pope and the Sacred Liturgy. He may also be an official involved in the proper conduct of protocols and ceremonials involving the Roman Pontiff, the Papal Court, and other dignitaries and potentates. Examples of official liturgical books prescribing the rules and regulations of liturgical celebrations are Cæremoniale Romanum and Cæremoniale Episcoporum.

and from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

The scheme of high Mass is this: the procession comes to the altar, consisting of thurifer, acolytes, master of ceremonies, subdeacon, deacon, and celebrant, all vested as the rubrics direct (see VESTMENTS). First, the preparatory prayers are said at the foot of the altar; the altar is incensed, the celebrant reads at the south (Epistle) side the Introit and Kyrie. Meanwhile the choir sing the Introit and Kyrie. On days on which the “Te Deum” is said in the office, the celebrant intones the “Gloria in excelsis”, which is continued by the choir.

 

[Tietjen]

Master of Ceremonies. It is a server, usually an acolyte, that oversees the mass.

Thank you.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**By all means you should make yourself conspicuous by your absence, and tell everyone at length in an appropriately aggrieved tone of voice why you did not fulfill lyour own liturgical responsibility that Sunday.

THAT’LL show your priest who’s boss!**

(Did it ever occur to you that just maybe there is a good reason why Sister is addressing the congregation at mass and just maybe the Bishop is aware of it and gave his permission for this extraordinary occurrence?

(A priest doesn’t get to preach because he’s a priest. He preaches as the delegate of the Bishop, and if the Bishop wishes on this occasion to delegate this duty to another for onces, that’s his affair.)

 

[LilyM]

What should I do? I know this is prohibited yet I am scheduled to serve at Mass. There is a sister scheduled to give a homily, instead of the Priest, yet this is being called a “talk” and since this is a yearly thing, people hardly blink anymore.

What should I do? I called the office of worship in my diocese and they said that canon law was so involved that we really couldn’t say it was wrong. So even if some people, as they said, quoted a document prohibiting it, this was only part of the picture and that it we couldn’t determine that it was wrong.

The lady then did not want to discuss this with me and suggested I just go along with it and see how it is, and call back afterward. Then I got cut off and when I called back they lady said that I had received my answer and there was no more to say…(which seemed pretty dishonest but what could I do, I am just Joe pewsitter)

Should I just not serve and go to Mass or should I still be an MC that day and serve. I am not sure I can honestly participate as an MC knowing what I know. Life would have been easier if I didn’t read Redemptionis Sacramentum, but now what do I do?
Am I culpable for supporting the sin of disobedience by serving, I am the only person scheduled to serve as MC…

Any thoughts would be appreciated,
Scylla

Rot. If you want documents to back you up, go to them with paragraphs 65 and 66 of the GIRM, which are crystal clear, so no Canon Law should be necessary:

"65. The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended,63 for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.

1. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person. In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

There is to be a homily on Sundays and holy days of obligation at all Masses that are celebrated with the participation of a congregation; it may not be omitted without a serious reason. It is recommended on other days, especially on the weekdays of Advent, Lent, and the Easter Season, as well as on other festive days and occasions when the people come to church in greater numbers."

(my emphases). So there has to be a homily (a talk on a sacred text) from a priest or deacon *in addition to *whatever is done by the sister.

Apart from doing the above, this is, sadly, one case where the arrangements are totally out of your hands. You’ve done your best to alert the parish to possible impropriety, it’s not like you can’t crash tackle Sister and hustle her out of the church or anything. So if they choose to commit a liturgical abuse you can still attend and serve in good conscience.

 

[LilyM]

**By all means you should make yourself conspicuous by your absence, and tell everyone at length in an appropriately aggrieved tone of voice why you did not fulfill lyour own liturgical responsibility that Sunday.

THAT’LL show your priest who’s boss!**

(Did it ever occur to you that just maybe there is a good reason why Sister is addressing the congregation at mass and just maybe the Bishop is aware of it and gave his permission for this extraordinary occurrence?

(A priest doesn’t get to preach because he’s a priest. He preaches as the delegate of the Bishop, and if the Bishop wishes on this occasion to delegate this duty to another for onces, that’s his affair.)

As per the GIRM above there is actually a REQUIREMENT that there to be a homily on Sundays which cannot be given by a lay person, which cannot be omitted except for serious reason. If the Bishop has dispensed it, sure, but that doesn’t remove your obligation to make sure the parish is aware of the law. As laity we are under a duty to report and take action on liturgical abuses.

 

[Brendan]

Video tape it.

Send a letter with a copy of the video to the bishop, and a copy to the Congregation for Divine Worship inquiring on if this is permitted.

Make sure you note on the letter to the bishop that a copy has been sent to the CDWDS.

Fr. Z had some great tips on writing letters about stuff like this

Here are some tips for writing:

BE BRIEF. Make your cover letter no longer than one side of one sheet of paper.
Avoid writing long-hand. Make it easy to read. Type or use your computer.
-Include relevant documents: Vatican dicasteries can’t act solely on the basis of Mrs. Joe Bagofdonuts’s description of events. The best thing you can do is send concrete evidence, printed. If someone wrote and distributed something, send a copy.

-If you have relevant past correspondence, such as previous responses from priests or bishops, send copies.

-Do not tell them their job! Don’t quote canons, blah blah, as if they didn’t know them already. Leave the incredibly obvious unsaid.

-Do not engage in character assassination. State FACTS with as little editorializing as possible. Blathering on and on about how “disobedient” priests or bishops are will not strengthen your case. State facts. They will know if they are disobedient.

-If you must talk about your feelings, keep it incredibly short, and do not be mean-spirited. If something made you sad or angry, okay, say it, but don’t DWELL on it. The nastier you are, the weaker your letter will be.

-At the end thank the one you are writing to for his service, and promise your prayers. And mean it.

In summary, be brief, send evidence, leave out the obvious, don’t vent.

 

[ethelzguy]

As per the GIRM above there is actually a REQUIREMENT that there to be a homily on Sundays which cannot be given by a lay person, which cannot be omitted except for serious reason. If the Bishop has dispensed it, sure, but that doesn’t remove your obligation to make sure the parish is aware of the law. As laity we are under a duty to report and take action on liturgical abuses.

But, is a nun/sister actually a “lay” person? They, after all, have received the Sacrement of Holy Orders, no?

I don’t think it falls to the OP to be responsible for whether or not the speaker is in error or not. That is the responsibility of the Clergy involved.

 

[ethelzguy]

Video tape it.

Send a letter with a copy of the video to the bishop, and a copy to the Congregation for Divine Worship inquiring on if this is permitted.

Make sure you note on the letter to the bishop that a copy has been sent to the CDWDS.

Fr. Z had some great tips on writing letters about stuff like this

Here are some tips for writing:

Yah, show them all that you know better than they do. Make a real spectacle of yourself, as you videotape the Mass. And, when people ask why you are taping it, tell them the truth.

Perhaps a recap of today’s readings and Gospel might alter you thoughts somewhat.

First Reading…
In their affliction, people will say:
“Let us know, let us strive to know the LORD;
as certain as the dawn is his coming,
and his judgment shines forth like the light of day!
He will come to us like the rain,
like spring rain that waters the earth.”
What can I do with you, Ephraim?
What can I do with you, Judah?
Your piety is like a morning cloud,
like the dew that early passes away.
For this reason I smote them through the prophets,
I slew them by the words of my mouth;
for it is love that I desire, not sacrifice,
and knowledge of God rather than holocausts.

Gospel…
As Jesus passed on from there,
he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the customs post.
He said to him, “Follow me.”
And he got up and followed him.
While he was at table in his house,
many tax collectors and sinners came
and sat with Jesus and his disciples.
The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples,
“Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
He heard this and said,
“Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.
Go and learn the meaning of the words,
‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’
I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.”

 

[ethelzguy]

**What should I do? ** I called the office of worship in my diocese and they said that canon law was so involved that we really couldn’t say it was wrong. So even if some people, as they said, quoted a document prohibiting it, this was only part of the picture and that it we couldn’t determine that it was wrong.

Follow one of the most treasured and long-standing traditions of Catholicism…obey…submit yourself to the authority of the Church.

 

[SenorSalsa]

But, is a nun/sister actually a “lay” person? They, after all, have received the Sacrement of Holy Orders, no?

I don’t think it falls to the OP to be responsible for whether or not the speaker is in error or not. That is the responsibility of the Clergy involved.

Nuns actually do no recieve holy orders, niether do Brothers and Monks. They are simply consecrated.

 

[scylla]

**By all means you should make yourself conspicuous by your absence, and tell everyone at length in an appropriately aggrieved tone of voice why you did not fulfill lyour own liturgical responsibility that Sunday.

THAT’LL show your priest who’s boss!**

(Did it ever occur to you that just maybe there is a good reason why Sister is addressing the congregation at mass and just maybe the Bishop is aware of it and gave his permission for this extraordinary occurrence?

(A priest doesn’t get to preach because he’s a priest. He preaches as the delegate of the Bishop, and if the Bishop wishes on this occasion to delegate this duty to another for onces, that’s his affair.)

I am not sure if you think that this is a power thing on my part. I am just an MC I just serve the Mass and hope to encourage more young men to serve and eventually I might be a rung on the ladder to a vocation. I really don’t do much other than try and help so that the Mass is done reverently and in accord with the Church.

So I am not trying to show the Priest who is “Boss” or the Bishop. (the Priest is directed to allow this by the sister in charge of the parish, our Priests come from other parishes and have very little say in the Mass)

It has occured to me that there can actually be a circumstance where a lay person might assist in the Homily. Here is an example…

The Priest has a cold, cannot speak and has written his Homily down. Hands it to the layperson who explains that there is permission given to express the words of the Priest. They announce this so there is no confusion of the faithful and the Homily is presented. There is a situation that the Bishop can approve of and legitimately allow a lay person to present the Homily, as it would be impossible to do so otherwise.
(this I can accept as it seems certainly reasonable, unless I am told I am wrong, but it seems reasonable to me)

BTW, If we are shown we are wrong we should immediately change our position and submit to the truth.
I am always willing to do that, I might not like it, but as a Catholic I am required or I reject Christ who is the Truth.
I submit to the Church.

---

Thank you for all the advice, the Mass is today, Sunday.
I will try and record it or see if I can take pictures, I am going to a couple Masses today as I serve and my daughter sings.
I am pretty sure I can’t crash tackle sister, that wouldn’t be too becoming of me, or of the proper conduct of an MC.

What happens often is abuse happens, and those who are just obediently going to Mass are misled because no-one tells them it is wrong. So they assume it must be permitted because it is permitted. It changes their belief of what is allowed and what isn’t and their actual faith.

Since the liturgy also communicates our faith, I risk my salvation as a father, since I am the primary educator the the faith to my kids. This, if I do not take the responsibility to make sure my kids are going to a faithful Mass.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Brendan]

Follow one of the most treasured and long-standing traditions of Catholicism…obey…submit yourself to the authority of the Church.

Yes, and that Church says:

The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a **lay person **

So we should help everyone sumbit to that Authority.

And the same document that prohibits homilies being given by lay person ( anyone who is not Ordained), concludes with this

In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.

So not only do we have the RIGHT to lodge a complaint, but we actually have an obligation to do whatever is in our power to prevent them.

So yes, we SHOULD submit to the Authority of the Church and follow the Church’s instructions to do all that is within our power to prevent these abuses.

 

[ethelzguy]

Nuns actually do no recieve holy orders, niether do Brothers and Monks. They are simply consecrated.

If so, then I stand corrected

 

[scylla]

Follow one of the most treasured and long-standing traditions of Catholicism…obey…submit yourself to the authority of the Church.

I agree we should always obey… I will submit and never make a spectacle of myself as I serve Christ, not my own ego. I might fail sometimes but I really try.

Yet, is it right to obey when something wrong is being presented? Does this make me an accessory to the abuse?

Do I participate in misleading the faithful? Is it obedient to not point out disobedience? To ignore unfaithfulness?

I am torn, and still thinking of what I should do.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Tietjen]

But, is a nun/sister actually a “lay” person? They, after all, have received the Sacrement of Holy Orders, no?

I don’t think it falls to the OP to be responsible for whether or not the speaker is in error or not. That is the responsibility of the Clergy involved.

Actually no… only a Bishop, Priest or Deacon may give the Homily. That’s all. My only question on the matter is if perhaps Father or a Deacon WILL be giving a very short Homily and then introducing Sister to give her “talk.” I find it hard to believe that a Priest will simply do away with the Homily on a Sunday Mass.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Perhaps you could very charitably mention your discomfort to your pastor and suggest that he give a brief homily from the Scripture readings at the usual time, and let Sister give her talk after Communion, which is a more appropriate time for such talks. In this way all confusion of roles can be avoided.

 

[ethelzguy]

I agree we should always obey… I will submit and never make a spectacle of myself as I serve Christ, not my own ego. I might fail sometimes but I really try.

Yet, is it right to obey when something wrong is being presented? Does this make me an accessory to the abuse?

Do I participate in misleading the faithful? Is it obedient to not point out disobedience? To ignore unfaithfulness?

I am torn, and still thinking of what I should do.

God Bless
Scylla

I don’t dispute that grave wrongs/abuses are not to be blatantly ignored. However, a private discussion with the priest sometime next week expressing your concerns might be more appropriate than boycotting your scheduled service to the Church?

A videotape will accomplish nothing other than to irritate and annoy. There will be a church full of people to confirm what went on, should the need arise.

 

[ethelzguy]

Yet, is it right to obey when something wrong is being presented? Does this make me an accessory to the abuse?

Do I participate in misleading the faithful? God Bless
Scylla

If you were the one giving the “talk” things might be different. But by participating in your usual, proper method does not make you “an accessory to a crime”…