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Ockham
Guest
So 23 weeks and it’s “reproductive choice” but 24 and it’s murder. Is that it?
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Zatzat
Guest
It’s not murder even at 24 weeks. If the abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother or the baby has a horrific genetic disorder, an abortion is an acceptable solution.
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Ockham
Guest
Oh, so now a horrible genetic disorder makes it ok. Well then what about people who catch horrible diseases like leprosy, Parkinson’s,or AIDS? They are very expensive to keep around and quite the burden. How about quadriplegics or the comatose?
Back to the 24th week thing, so providing the mother’s and baby’s health is fine, it’s murder? 23 weeks, six days, twenty three hours and it’s ‘reproductive choic’?
Back to the 24th week thing, so providing the mother’s and baby’s health is fine, it’s murder? 23 weeks, six days, twenty three hours and it’s ‘reproductive choic’?
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iluvburpees
Guest
Ockham, there is not logic to a liberal’s argument. You cannot argue with them. It is the most frustrating thing you can endure in a debate.
Those who don’t want the truth, are not going to leave error. No matter how logical, reasonable, or (in most cases) plain the facts are, it won’t change the liberal’s position.
In this case, Zatzat has no actual basis for his arguments. He claims entirely on his own opinion that an innocent baby is worthy of being killed, ripped apart, during the time that it is dependent upon the mother. But the moment that it is not completely dependent upon the mother, it suddenly attains human rights. Where does this idea come from, other than Zatzat?
This apparent logic can be extended: any child, regardless of whether he is within or without the womb, is worthy of being killed by his parents, if the child is completely dependent upon his parents for food, clothing, shelter, etc. (i.e. sustenence of life). How does that sound?
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Zatzat
Guest
If the child has no hope for survival, it’s a decision best left between the mother ( spouse if in the picture) and the doctor. Not you or your Church.
I view the world in shades of grey, not black in white.
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Ockham
Guest
What if there is chance for survival?
The Church helped set the standards for our laws today. They are God’s laws. The Creator of all life. You and the other abortionists are currently free to end life, but you will still face the Last Four Things. We all die someday. Where you spend eternity will be decided by choices like these.
Grey is the cloak of the moral relativist.
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Zatzat
Guest
Very well then, we agree to disagree.
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catharina
Guest
Would it be fair to say that
you view the world as if the existence of God is irrelevant
yet at the same time you want to “dis-prove” God’s existence and relvance?
PS - as if your battle with any truth of God is a personal one for you?
If that IS the case, why is it personal for you?
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Zatzat
Guest
The onus is on the believer to prove the existence of their God.
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Ockham
Guest
Let’s give the final word to Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood.
“The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.”
Margaret Sanger, Women and the New Race
(Eugenics Publ. Co., 1920, 1923)
“The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.”
Margaret Sanger, Women and the New Race
(Eugenics Publ. Co., 1920, 1923)
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catharina
Guest
Read my post again, please. I added to it.
PS - I need to prove nothing to you.
Any “proof” demands a graceful opening in your soul and you deny that could happen.
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Zatzat
Guest
Uhm, what’s your point, this woman was born 130 years ago and has been dead for close to 50 years?
Am I supposed to quote all the scripture where babies and children were killed?
Is that what I’m supposed to do now. Doesn’t that get tiresome, trading death quotes and seeing who can trump the other with the more shocking tale of death?
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Zatzat
Guest
Very well, you need not prove anything to me. However, don’t expect me to believe it without evidence.
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catharina
Guest
I expect nothing of you. You’ve made your stand quite clear.
However, with the Church I believe that ‘those who believe’ receive the gift of faith from God.
To receive such a gift, those who will believe must be open to receiving that gift.
Evidence has nothing to do with it. If you studied the faith, you’d know that.
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Zatzat
Guest
I have. More than you could ever know. Gosh, I’ve even prayed and you want to know what I found?
…silence.
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Soutane
Guest
Zatzat in the deepest recesses of your heart you know it’s murder.Your attempt to speak dispassionately about the deliberate murder of another human being speaks volumes of your true cognizance of this crime.
I have a question,if you don’t mind answering.Why are you here?Most come here with an interest or at least a curiousity about Catholicism and some even convert.All I see from you is hostility to the Church and to the Catholics who defend Her,.I am most intrigued by your presence here but also quite curious.If you feel it is none of my business,please ignore this post and I won’t bring it up again.
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Zatzat
Guest
LIke most people, i’m not a huge a fan of abortion. However, I don’t accept that it is murder and I sincerely don’t view an embryo as a baby. Like the majority of people, I view abortions in the third trimester as very troubling. The better news is that they’re quite rare in Western society.
I’m here to share my opinions, learn and see how lay Catholics view the world and the many issues within it.I have a question,if you don’t mind answering.Why are you here?Most come here with an interest or at least a curiousity about Catholicism and some even convert.All I see from you is hostility to the Church and to the Catholics who defend Her,.I am most intrigued by your presence here but also quite curious.If you feel it is none of my business,please ignore this post and I won’t bring it up again.
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Christopher68
Guest
Here is a link that will give you a much better medical definition that I could:
medicinenet.com/barrier_methods_of_birth_control/article.htm
Birth control, particularly barrier methods, are absolutely not murder, as there is no fertilization.
You have essentially answered the hypothetical question I posed earlier, in that it is not just the end of abortion you are after, but rather total control over the private behavior of individuals. This is a mindset that I do not understand. Perhaps you like big government, and using coercove power to achieve whatever your objectives are, but I abhor it.
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iluvburpees
Guest
You claim to be a Catholic. Unfortunately, you oppose the Holy Father in your birth control position: lifenews.com/int947.html
In terms of your last statement, you are simply making a claim that has no basis whatsoever. I do not like big government, and saying that birth control and abortion are murder and heinous crimes is not “forcing” something on people. It is part of the commandments of God written into every man’s soul. Perhaps God is the one (sic) who is imposing us with his Commandments?
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Ockham
Guest
She’s the founder of the largest ‘family planning agency’/abortion mill in the USA. Isn’t her motivation relevant to this debate?
No where in Scripture does it call for abortion. It does tell us what awaits those who slaughter the innocents though.
There were those who found morally relative arguments for the Final Solution. Abortion is the modern day holocaust and one day the history books will lump you all together.
How about researching the subject instead of mindless repetition of the liberal talking points. By your standards, Barack Obama should have been terminated in the womb.
Remember Jane Roe? youtube.com/watch?v=T_MUUvcvjEg
liveaction.org/
lifesitenews.com/
jillstanek.com/
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