Skip Sunday Mass for sake of enlightened women?

[MJE]

oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/weve_had_enough_portland_catho.html

A few dozen women (per the article) in Portland, Oregon are urging local Catholics to join them @ a local park Sunday AM, in place of attending Sunday Mass, to protest women’s in-equality in RC church. The Oregonian, Portland’s newspaper, has this featured front page, above the fold in this morning’s paper.

Words are inadequate.

 

[Rence]

Good for them. Maybe if more people who are angered or pained by things they perceive as unfair or unjust would organize and attend a “90-minute program calls for prayers, a gospel reflection, and a litany of women saints. Organizers say they hope participants will attend Mass on Saturday night or stay downtown for a special noon Mass at the Downtown Chapel.” there would be less anger and hurt in the world. I would hardly call a program comprised of prayers and gospel reflection a bad thing. Plus, they’re not calling for participants to totally “boycott” going to Church, just to go at another time.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Good for them. Maybe if more people who are angered or pained by things they perceive as unfair or unjust would organize and attend a “90-minute program calls for prayers, a gospel reflection, and a litany of women saints. Organizers say they hope participants will attend Mass on Saturday night or stay downtown for a special noon Mass at the Downtown Chapel.” there would be less anger and hurt in the world. I would hardly call a program comprised of prayers and gospel reflection a bad thing. Plus, they’re not calling for participants to totally “boycott” going to Church, just to go at another time.

Just exactly what is 'unfair and unjust treatment of women in the Catholic Church?

That’s what puzzles me.

Now, if after attending Saturday Mass these women then went to this 90 minute program where they learned that woman are NOT being treated unjustly, or unfairly by the Church --where they all actually listened to readings of Pope John Paul’s "On the Dignity of Women’ --where they heard testimonies from other women about how empowering it is to embrace true femininity (which is not anti-woman or focused solely on ‘gender’ but understands that women, in being truly women, don’t have to box themselves up into stereotypes, either ‘girly’ or ‘butch’, in order to ‘know themselves’)–where women speak of the joys of being mothers just as much as they speak of the joys of being ‘gainfully employed outside the home’, where women talk of how they can help other women through the many programs the Church already has. . .

That would be worthwhile.

So, do y’all think that’s the kind of program they’ll be having in Oregon?

 

[Sabda]

Good for them. Maybe if more people who are angered or pained by things they perceive as unfair or unjust would organize and attend a “90-minute program calls for prayers, a gospel reflection, and a litany of women saints. Organizers say they hope participants will attend Mass on Saturday night or stay downtown for a special noon Mass at the Downtown Chapel.” there would be less anger and hurt in the world. I would hardly call a program comprised of prayers and gospel reflection a bad thing. Plus, they’re not calling for participants to totally “boycott” going to Church, just to go at another time.

You need to go back and re-read the article. These women are your standard liberal women who are interested in changing the Church. They want women’s ordination and the whole ball of wax.

From the article: Important quotes have been highlighted.

Organizers of “One Spirit – One Call” say women’s ordination is only one concern on a longer list. Women, they say, do not help determine policy within the Catholic Church and are not allowed to serve as deacons, even though they may be as educated and as experienced as many priests. Women fill a number of secondary roles in parishes, they say, completing many pastoral duties but they are not allowed to preach publicly. **The fact that the Vatican is investigating communities of nuns and sisters in the United States is another sore point. **Church leaders say the goal of the investigation is to assess how religious orders are fulfilling their stated missions. But critics suspect the point is to determine whether women are following church teachings.

“**The images of God and the language we use in liturgy are big issues for me,” says Katie Hainley, 31, a member of St. Vincent de Paul Parish, also known as the Downtown Chapel. “Our church tradition holds that God is neither male nor female, but God is usually portrayed from a masculine perspective.” **
Marylee King agrees. “The crux of it is injustice and inequality,” says the 64-year-old member of Resurrection Parish in Tualatin. A lifelong Catholic, she has been a Eucharistic minister, a sacristan and taught in religious education programs. “Women are discounted. The hierarchy continuously passes over women. The rest of the world has moved on.”

These women are not interested in being Catholic according to God’s definition. They are interested in being Catholic according to their own personal definition of what that means.

 

[Corki]

Good for them. Maybe if more people who are angered or pained by things they perceive as unfair or unjust would organize and attend a “90-minute program calls for prayers, a gospel reflection, and a litany of women saints. Organizers say they hope participants will attend Mass on Saturday night or stay downtown for a special noon Mass at the Downtown Chapel.” there would be less anger and hurt in the world. I would hardly call a program comprised of prayers and gospel reflection a bad thing. Plus, they’re not calling for participants to totally “boycott” going to Church, just to go at another time.

Did you read the whole article? One of the organizers lists women’s ordination as one of thier many concerns. It’s unlikely that there will be much in this program that is authentically Catholic.

Just exactly what is 'unfair and unjust treatment of women in the Catholic Church?

That’s what puzzles me.

Now, if after attending Saturday Mass these women then went to this 90 minute program where they learned that woman are NOT being treated unjustly, or unfairly by the Church --**where they all actually listened to readings of Pope John Paul’s "On the Dignity of Women’ **–where they heard testimonies from other women about how empowering it is to embrace true femininity (which is not anti-woman or focused solely on ‘gender’ but understands that women, in being truly women, don’t have to box themselves up into stereotypes, either ‘girly’ or ‘butch’, in order to ‘know themselves’)–where women speak of the joys of being mothers just as much as they speak of the joys of being ‘gainfully employed outside the home’, where women talk of how they can help other women through the many programs the Church already has. . .

That would be worthwhile.

 

[Sabda]

Just exactly what is 'unfair and unjust treatment of women in the Catholic Church?

That’s what puzzles me.

Now, if after attending Saturday Mass these women then went to this 90 minute program where they learned that woman are NOT being treated unjustly, or unfairly by the Church --where they all actually listened to readings of Pope John Paul’s "On the Dignity of Women’ --where they heard testimonies from other women about how empowering it is to embrace true femininity (which is not anti-woman or focused solely on ‘gender’ but understands that women, in being truly women, don’t have to box themselves up into stereotypes, either ‘girly’ or ‘butch’, in order to ‘know themselves’)–where women speak of the joys of being mothers just as much as they speak of the joys of being ‘gainfully employed outside the home’, where women talk of how they can help other women through the many programs the Church already has. . .

That would be worthwhile.

So, do y’all think that’s the kind of program they’ll be having in Oregon?

No I don’t think that’s the program they will be having. It sounds to me like it’s going to be one long complaint about how they can’t do what they want to do. They will then spend time discussing how they need to change the Church to their own vision of what the Church should be.

These women need to not only spend time in prayer, in particular they need to pray for humility and obedience, something we all need. They need to be willing and open to learning about their own Faith and why the Church is the way she is.

 

[Barbkw]

Organizers of “One Spirit – One Call”

Reasons for the gripe session:

1. women’s ordination
2. women need to help determine policy within the Catholic Church
3. women deacons
4. women are disrespected with “secondary” roles in parishes
5. women not being allowed to preach publicly
6. Vatican investigating communities of nuns - critics suspect the point is to determine whether women are following church teachings.
7. Images of God and the language we use in liturgy - “Our church tradition holds that God is neither male nor female, but God is usually portrayed from a masculine perspective.”
8. Women are discounted - being a Eucharistic minister, a sacristan and religious education program teacher is not enough

 

[Barbkw]

From the article:

“Hainley and King say they have no intentions to leave the Catholic Church. Neither does Gayle Bache, 62, a member of St. Andrew’s.”

No, no of course not. Remain in the parish and fart up the air that we all breath.

 

[Beachcomber]

I don’t believe it’s right to encourage people to skip mass (‘in place of attending Mass’) to go to a rally. Anyone who shows up should attend Mass at another time.

 

[beth40n2]

I don’t believe it’s right to encourage people to skip mass (‘in place of attending Mass’) to go to a rally. Anyone who shows up should attend Mass at another time.

I agree. No one should ever encourage anyone to miss mass. Missing mass is a serious sin, and those who encourage it are sinning as well. If you know it is a sin and you do it anyway, you are putting yourself in mortal danger.

I am a convert of 6 years, and I keep up on the Vatican new through Our Sunday Visitor, EWTN and more, and I see no indication that the Roman Catholic Church is hurting women. Except for ordination, women are encourage to particpate in most aspects of the church.

 

[Julian0404]

Good for them. Maybe if more people who are angered or pained by things they perceive as unfair or unjust would organize and attend a “90-minute program calls for prayers, a gospel reflection, and a litany of women saints. Organizers say they hope participants will attend Mass on Saturday night or stay downtown for a special noon Mass at the Downtown Chapel.” there would be less anger and hurt in the world. I would hardly call a program comprised of prayers and gospel reflection a bad thing. Plus, they’re not calling for participants to totally “boycott” going to Church, just to go at another time.

No, bad for them! You cannot advise people to NOT attend the Mass, which said intentional absence is a mortal sin, and remain in the grace of the GOD whom has formed the very church which they belong and protesting. The fact that they do not get this truth indicates they have substituted the worlds vision in place of the Church vision and they have lost or subdued their Gifts from the Holy Spirit and therefore no longer have the sacred knowledge, wisdom, and understanding of the grace and saving power of the Catholic Church.

 

[MJE]

My 1st question for these women fighting against so-called inequality: Do you stand firmly against the injustice of killing unborn females? Do you participate in that struggle for their equality in life & liberty?

And who, pray tell, holds up a woman, ‘our tainted nature’s solitary boast’ to be honored like no mortal man (male)?

 

[Rence]

No, bad for them! You cannot advise people to NOT attend the Mass, which said intentional absence is a mortal sin, and remain in the grace of the GOD whom has formed the very church which they belong and protesting. The fact that they do not get this truth indicates they have substituted the worlds vision in place of the Church vision and they have lost or subdued their Gifts from the Holy Spirit and therefore no longer have the sacred knowledge, wisdom, and understanding of the grace and saving power of the Catholic Church.

According to the article, they aren’t advising people to not attend Mass. They are encouraging people to attend the gathering and then attend a different Mass. I’m quite sure there are other Masses available. The gathering is only 90 minutes long. And when people are unhappy, they *should * gather in prayer. I think this is a positive experience for them. I hope many attend (and also attend Mass in the same weekend).

 

[MJE]

Another question: Why the front page, above the fold, of the biggest newspaper in the area?

 

[Apollos]

article cited:

• …Jennifer Sleeman, 81…
• …Marylee King … the 64-year-old member…
• …Gayle Bache, 62…
• …Mary Lou Stewart, 62…
• …Sarah Granger, 34…
• …Katie Hainley, 31…

 

[Julian0404]

According to the article, they aren’t advising people to not attend Mass. They are encouraging people to attend the gathering and then attend a different Mass. I’m quite sure there are other Masses available. The gathering is only 90 minutes long. And when people are unhappy, they *should * gather in prayer. I think this is a positive experience for them. I hope many attend (and also attend Mass in the same weekend).

I fail to see how “I THINK THIS IS A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE FOR THEM” unless they have lost their understanding of what they have in the Catholic Church and by this experience they learn or rediscover their understanding. Pope John II has advised that the Catholic Church can not ordain women. It is not that the Church can not say “no”, but it is that the Church can not say “yes” to women ordination because JESUS never ordained women. So, protesting in “prayer” the guideance from the Holy Father, the Vicar of Christ, is “postive” only to those who misunderstand.

 

[Sabda]

According to the article, they aren’t advising people to not attend Mass. They are encouraging people to attend the gathering and then attend a different Mass. I’m quite sure there are other Masses available. The gathering is only 90 minutes long. And when people are unhappy, they *should * gather in prayer. I think this is a positive experience for them. I hope many attend (and also attend Mass in the same weekend).

If the experience brings them closer to God, then yes it will be. However, it doesn’t sound like that is what they are shooting for. I suggest you go back and re-read the article. Copied and pasted from my post above.

From the article: Important quotes have been highlighted.

Quote:

Organizers of “One Spirit – One Call” say women’s ordination is only one concern on a longer list. Women, they say, do not help determine policy within the Catholic Church and are not allowed to serve as deacons, even though they may be as educated and as experienced as many priests. Women fill a number of secondary roles in parishes, they say, completing many pastoral duties but they are not allowed to preach publicly. The fact that the Vatican is investigating communities of nuns and sisters in the United States is another sore point. Church leaders say the goal of the investigation is to assess how religious orders are fulfilling their stated missions. But critics suspect the point is to determine whether women are following church teachings.

“The images of God and the language we use in liturgy are big issues for me,” says Katie Hainley, 31, a member of St. Vincent de Paul Parish, also known as the Downtown Chapel. “Our church tradition holds that God is neither male nor female, but God is usually portrayed from a masculine perspective.”
Marylee King agrees. “The crux of it is injustice and inequality,” says the 64-year-old member of Resurrection Parish in Tualatin. A lifelong Catholic, she has been a Eucharistic minister, a sacristan and taught in religious education programs. “Women are discounted. The hierarchy continuously passes over women. The rest of the world has moved on.”

These women are not interested in being Catholic according to God’s definition. They are interested in being Catholic according to their own personal definition of what that means.

 

[Brickmaker]

These women are not interested in being Catholic according to God’s definition. They are interested in being Catholic according to their own personal definition of what that means.

Or perhaps they are interested in being women according to their own experience of being female and not according to how a male-dominated Church defines them?

 

[MJE]

I think Apollo’s reference to the ages of these women is noteworthy; dying on the vine, you might say. The new young female faces committed to the Church, both religious & laity, are pro-life, pro-family, and pro-authentic feminity. The I am woman, ordain me group is out there w/ what George Weigel coined “catholic-lite”; not Christ’s church but my/her church.

 

[Corki]

Or perhaps they are interested in being women according to their own experience of being female and not according to how a male-dominated Church defines them?

No “or” required.

If these women were interested in being authentic Catholic women, they could do everything you suggest without going down the path of dissent. Now, they are just looking for a religion based on their own experience instead of Catholicism.