Slain in the Spirit

[ltwin]

Ok I understand the way you were using “gift,” but just wanted to clear up any confusion. Also, I will quote a document posted on the Assemblies of God’s website that I’ve linked to earlier on this thread, “A courtesy fall is never the work of the Holy Spirit, nor is a quick rise so that others can enjoy the experience.” The times that I’ve been slain in the Spirit have been so intense that sometimes I would try to get up but would be unable to. I have heard it described as there being a weightiness to God’s presence. It is not a burdensome weight, but one of joy and peace. Indeed, his yoke is easy and his burdens are light.

 

[guanophore]

Other than the falling, they don’t seem to be particularly impressed by the whole thing-considering that God, the HS, had supposedly just touched them in what can only be presumed to be a direct and incredibly awesome way.

What sort of display were you expecting? Do you see people jump up and down for joy and shout after receiving the Eucharist? Is that not an even greater inculcation of the most miraculous gift of God?

 

[fhansen]

What sort of display were you expecting? Do you see people jump up and down for joy and shout after receiving the Eucharist? Is that not an even greater inculcation of the most miraculous gift of God?

We should be affected greatly by the Eucharist of course-and once in a very great while it does this to me and I weep-not of my own accord, however; that, too is a gift. The difference is that, with the Eucharist, as often as not we may experience exactly nothing-intellectually we’re aware that something great has transpired while in actuality our minds may be on the football game. In the case of being slain in the spirit, however, an experience has allegedly already occurred. God has taken control of our minds-or at least our bodies in some manner- and I’d think a person would have no choice but to actually know the power and presence of the One orchestrating the event. This kind of experience cannot be faked or imagined, it’s certainly more than an intellectual awareness, and it leaves the person in some degree of ecstasy.

In any case I wanted to put my two cents in, based on my own experiences, and I’ll take everyone’s word for what they’ve expressed here as being authentic because I can tell you’re all sincere and I can’t know what anyone else has experienced anyway.

 

[guanophore]

We *should* be affected greatly by the Eucharist of course-and once in a very great while it does this to me and I weep-not of my own accord, however; that, too is a gift.

Yes, this has happened to me too. St. Teresa writes about it as the “gift of tears”, just being overwhelmed by the goodness of God. My point is that a person can have a profound inner encounter with God and it may not be very visible at all on the outside.

The difference is that, with the Eucharist, as often as not we may experience exactly nothing-intellectually we’re aware that something great has transpired while in actuality our minds may be on the football game. In the case of being slain in the spirit, however, an experience has allegedly already occurred.

I don’t think there is any difference. In both cases, an experience has occurred. Sometimes it includes an emotional response, sometimes it does not.

At my parish the anointing of the sick is offered every first Friday. When people receive this sacrament, it looks the same as it did a few minutes before during communion. They all have an experience of sacramental grace. It does not necessarily show on the outside. I have not interviewed them to see what they felt, but I am thinking about it.

God has taken control of our minds-or at least our bodies in some manner- and I’d think a person would have no choice but to actually know the power and presence of the One orchestrating the event. This kind of experience cannot be faked or imagined, it’s certainly more than an intellectual awareness, and it leaves the person in some degree of ecstasy.

Yes, this has always been my experience. I agree it cannot be faked on the inside, but it sure can on the outside!

In any case I wanted to put my two cents in, based on my own experiences, and I’ll take everyone’s word for what they’ve expressed here as being authentic because I can tell you’re all sincere and I can’t know what anyone else has experienced anyway.

We need to pray that counterfiets be removed from the Church in all times and places, so the purity of the work of the HS can be preserved.

 

[rom422]

Dear Guanophore,

I don’t really like to intrude, but I want to do two things in this post: (1) Give my two cents; and (2) See if I can do the quote, reply, quote, reply technique (I’m new here, you know).

I don’t think there is any difference. In both cases, an experience has occurred. Sometimes it includes an emotional response, sometimes it does not.

There were a few times when I cried after receiving communion. But I thought it was just me, because I was emotional. I didn’t think that I received a special “gift of tears.” Actually, I don’t even want to start sobbing and pulling my handkerchief to wipe off my tears when I receive communion, because my daughter usually kneels beside me and I did not want to be embarrassed to her. And I don’t want other people to see me crying either. But that’s just me.

At my parish the anointing of the sick is offered every first Friday. When people receive this sacrament, it looks the same as it did a few minutes before during communion. They all have an experience of sacramental grace. It does not necessarily show on the outside. I have not interviewed them to see what they felt, but I am thinking about it.

The absence of an external, emotional response does not diminish the efficacy and the grace of the sacrament. I am happy just to be with the Lord, with or without tears. But I prefer no tears. Spiritual and emotional consolations that God wants to give us in prayer are great, and we should welcome them, I know. But when I receive communion, my intention is to be with Him in my faith and in my heart, and if it be His will, I’d rather not have the tears. I like the peace and the interior joy, but even this *feeling *is not necessary. Many saints have received communion when they are spiritually dry.

For those who pray expecting some signs or manifestations to happen, I offer this important WARNING. Be very careful. Because even the devil can duplicate those signs and wonders, and he can easily give them to you, and you will readily receive them from him unsuspectingly when you are after the manifestation itself, rather than God. Truly, this is how the devil deceives even the elect. When you stand in what someone aptly called “the assembly line” waiting for a manifestation to happen, you may indeed experience a “spiritual weight” that will make you collapse, but you DO NOT know for sure that it came from God! That it was a supernatural event is undeniable. That it was from God - that you are not sure. Because even the joyful feeling that comes with the experience can be caused by the devil. I think it is more important to evaluate what happens after the experience. Did it humble you, or are you just more proud because you received a gift? Are you now more resolved to resist sin, or just more eager to receive more of the same gift or experience? Was the experience beneficial to your spiritual life, or was it just a spiritual shock without relevance to your relationship with God? These are very good questions to ask.

External signs and wonders are external to sanctity as such. If God wants to give you a manifestation, then you will receive it whether you knew it was coming or not.

Regards to all!

 

[fhansen]

External signs and wonders are external to sanctity as such. If God wants to give you a manifestation, then you will receive it whether you knew it was coming or not.

I agree with this completely-I’ve never cultivated any experiences-and so whenever He gave them there was no doubt where they came from-and who’s will was being done. But we shouldn’t minimize or deny them either-they are gifts, after all, given for His purposes.

 

[guanophore]

Dear Guanophore,

I don’t really like to intrude, but I want to do two things in this post: (1) Give my two cents; and (2) See if I can do the quote, reply, quote, reply technique (I’m new here, you know).

There were a few times when I cried after receiving communion. But I thought it was just me, because I was emotional. I didn’t think that I received a special “gift of tears.” Actually, I don’t even want to start sobbing and pulling my handkerchief to wipe off my tears when I receive communion, because my daughter usually kneels beside me and I did not want to be embarrassed to her. And I don’t want other people to see me crying either. But that’s just me.

I don’t think this is “just” you. I think it is quite common among those receiving in a state of grace, and coming forward with an expectant attitude (properly disposed for the Sacrament). Perhaps it might be more accurate to say that one is “moved to tears”.

The point is that one can have an emotional experience when touched by grace, but they might not necessarily have one.

The absence of an external, emotional response does not diminish the efficacy and the grace of the sacrament. I am happy just to be with the Lord, with or without tears. But I prefer no tears. Spiritual and emotional consolations that God wants to give us in prayer are great, and we should welcome them, I know. But when I receive communion, my intention is to be with Him in my faith and in my heart, and if it be His will, I'd rather not have the tears. I like the peace and the interior joy, but even this *feeling *is not necessary. Many saints have received communion when they are spiritually dry.

For those who pray expecting some signs or manifestations to happen, I offer this important WARNING.  Be very careful. Because even the devil can duplicate those signs and wonders, and he can easily give them to you, and you will readily receive them from him unsuspectingly when you are after the manifestation itself, rather than God.

Yes, this is well said. We are to seek the Giver, and not the gift. While we always pray for healing with expectant faith, we must be mindful that the ultimate healing is life eternal with Christ.

Truly, this is how the devil deceives even the elect. When you stand in what someone aptly called “the assembly line” waiting for a manifestation to happen, you may indeed experience a “spiritual weight” that will make you collapse, but you DO NOT know for sure that it came from God! That it was a supernatural event is undeniable. That it was from God - that you are not sure.

This is true, but for Catholics who are confessed and prayerful in disposition, we can trust that the Lord will keep us from the Evil One, as we daily pray he will. We do not have to fear the devil, but rather, focus on remaining in His grace.

People who come forward for prayer, though, are not “waiting for a manifestation to happen”. They come in the same spirit they do for the Eucharist, or in my home parish, every year on the feast of St. Blaise there are special prayers after Mass for the throat (I had not seen that before coming here). We expect that God will do whatever He wants to do, however He likes. The attitude is to be open to his present working, with expectant faith. This may, or may not include a manifestation.

Because even the joyful feeling that comes with the experience can be caused by the devil. I think it is more important to evaluate what happens after the experience. Did it humble you, or are you just more proud because you received a gift?

I agree with you in principle, but I don’t think the devil is able to mimic the peace that surpasses all understanding. However, for this reason, it is important to examine the fruit in the life of the believer.

Are you now more resolved to resist sin, or just more eager to receive more of the same gift or experience? Was the experience beneficial to your spiritual life, or was it just a spiritual shock without relevance to your relationship with God? These are very good questions to ask.

External signs and wonders are external to sanctity as such. If God wants to give you a manifestation, then you will receive it whether you knew it was coming or not.

Regards to all!

And Scripture testifies that the charisms are given to even the most immature in faith.