Sleepover at girl friend's place

[kancharles]

Hello,
I wanted to know your opinion regarding this matter. I know that many people say it is not good for a boy to spend the night at his girl friend’s place or vice versa. This is because it might cause a temptation to sin. In a hypothetical case if the boy and girl were to spend a night together and there is definitely nothing sexual going to happen between them (because they have awesome self-control), and all they want to do is spend time in each other’s arms. How is this different from a boy and girl cuddling up on a couch and watching a movie together? Is this just frowned upon or immoral?
Thanks!

 

[chipeto]

Hello,
I wanted to know your opinion regarding this matter. I know that many people say it is not good for a boy to spend the night at his girl friend’s place or vice versa. This is because it might cause a temptation to sin. In a hypothetical case if the boy and girl were to spend a night together and there is definitely nothing sexual going to happen between them (because they have awesome self-control), and all they want to do is spend time in each other’s arms. How is this different from a boy and girl cuddling up on a couch and watching a movie together? Is this just frowned upon or immoral?
Thanks!

Well, there is the matter of scandal.

If there is absolutely-no-way-that-anything-sexual-can-happen in the scenario you describe, then at least one of them is gay or dead. Possibly both.

To expose yourselves always to temptation and never to fall by it, is not that a greater miracle than to raise the dead? You are not able to do that which is less, and do you wish me to believe that you do that which is greater?

Bernard of Clairvaux

 

[Shannon46]

Hello,
I wanted to know your opinion regarding this matter. I know that many people say it is not good for a boy to spend the night at his girl friend’s place or vice versa. This is because it might cause a temptation to sin. In a hypothetical case if the boy and girl were to spend a night together and there is definitely nothing sexual going to happen between them (because they have awesome self-control), and all they want to do is spend time in each other’s arms. How is this different from a boy and girl cuddling up on a couch and watching a movie together? Is this just frowned upon or immoral?
Thanks!

I don’t see anything wrong with staying over night as long as it’s something totally innocent, until premaritl sex starts to happen then thats when things would be a problem.

 

[twoangels]

Hello,
I wanted to know your opinion regarding this matter. I know that many people say it is not good for a boy to spend the night at his girl friend’s place or vice versa. This is because it might cause a temptation to sin. In a hypothetical case if the boy and girl were to spend a night together and there is definitely nothing sexual going to happen between them (because they have awesome self-control), and all they want to do is spend time in each other’s arms. How is this different from a boy and girl cuddling up on a couch and watching a movie together? Is this just frowned upon or immoral?
Thanks!

Its important to understand that arousal turns of some of the cognative parts of your brain. It weakens your will power. Meanwhile as you are drifting off into sleep or drifting into a waking state, again cognative parts of your brain are turning off and on. So for one, you’re with someone you’re sexuall attracted. In all liklihood just sitting next to them can be mildly arousing just from the exposure to the other person’s fermones. Now you want to allow this couple to fall asleep with their noses close to their skin getting even more close to their fermones and you’re saying “Oh they just have awesome self control.” To have self control, you need to be awake enough. That’s why its not sinful to have sexual dreams while you’re asleep. You aren’t willfully choosing to engage in such dreams because your mental capacity is compromised.

I’m not saying that a couple cannot learn how to surpress their sexuality to the point of successfully not engaging in any sexual acts while they’re cuddling and falling asleep in a bed together. However, chances are, if they’re succeeding at it, it is through conditioning the unconscious to no longer respond to sexual stimuli. This conditioning damages the person sexually and can make transitioning to sexual activity after marriage difficult.

As such, you want to respect the gift of sexuality God gave you with. You don’t want to push the boundaries to indulge in this to a point and then rely on mental conditioning that disrespects the beauty of the gift of sexuality you’ve been given. As such its important to avoid near occassions of sin.

That said, I think in our world situations can be tough. My husband and I courted long distance. The best we could do to see each other enough to get to know each other to discern marriage required spending the night. Luckily we lived near our parents. So when I’d visit him, I’d sleep on a twin bed at his parents’ house. There was a brief period where he was living with them (inbetween apartments) so he’d sleep upstairs in his bedroom. It wasn’t an ideal situation, but his parents’ were home and we took precautions to avoid being in bedrooms together and when we got ready for bed we kept things as seperate and modest as we could. Our big temptation was always to feel like we were being silly and to think “hey we can handle this. I don’t feel tempted at all.” Then we’d compromise a bit and be perfectly fine and then one day it just was different and we’d be committing one sin or another. We’d go to confession, pick up our resolve and start again.

Chastity is something we all struggle with in one manner or another. We have to be honest with ourselves and recognize that it is a battle. Don’t play with fire.

 

[kancharles]

Kissing could be appropriate(I think). Definitely no sex or petting.

 

[ExLibris]

Spend time in each others’ arms? Cuddling up on the couch?

These are near occasions of sin.

Keep your hands off each other.

 

[kancharles]

Is this immoral? Or venial sin?

 

[ExLibris]

Is this immoral? Or venial sin?

To avoid actual sin you must avoid occasions of sin.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Hello,
I wanted to know your opinion regarding this matter. I know that many people say it is not good for a boy to spend the night at his girl friend’s place or vice versa. This is because it might cause a temptation to sin. In a hypothetical case if the boy and girl were to spend a night together and there is definitely nothing sexual going to happen between them (because they have awesome self-control), and all they want to do is spend time in each other’s arms. How is this different from a boy and girl cuddling up on a couch and watching a movie together? Is this just frowned upon or immoral?
Thanks!

There’s girl friends and then there’s girlfriends. The difference between them is that in the former it’s just a friend who’s a girl and in the latter they are dating. In the former case fine whereas in the latter case it’s more iffy. In the latter case do not sleep in the same bed, especially if there is no one else around and alcohol is a very bad idea to introduce to the mix. I’d recommend being spiritually intimate before going there physically. Go to Mass together, pray together etc.

Assuming they get past all that there is still scandal and stuff

Its important to understand that arousal turns of some of the cognative parts of your brain. It weakens your will power. Meanwhile as you are drifting off into sleep or drifting into a waking state, again cognative parts of your brain are turning off and on. So for one, you’re with someone you’re sexually attracted. In all likelihood just sitting next to them can be mildly arousing just from the exposure to the other person’s pheromones. Now you want to allow this couple to fall asleep with their noses close to their skin getting even more close to their pheromones and you’re saying “Oh they just have awesome self control.” To have self control, you need to be awake enough. That’s why its not sinful to have sexual dreams while you’re asleep. You aren’t willfully choosing to engage in such dreams because your mental capacity is compromised.

I’m not saying that a couple cannot learn how to surpress their sexuality to the point of successfully not engaging in any sexual acts while they’re cuddling and falling asleep in a bed together. However, chances are, if they’re succeeding at it, it is through conditioning the unconscious to no longer respond to sexual stimuli. This conditioning damages the person sexually and can make transitioning to sexual activity after marriage difficult.

As such, you want to respect the gift of sexuality God gave you with. You don’t want to push the boundaries to indulge in this to a point and then rely on mental conditioning that disrespects the beauty of the gift of sexuality you’ve been given. As such its important to avoid near occassions of sin.

That said, I think in our world situations can be tough. My husband and I courted long distance. The best we could do to see each other enough to get to know each other to discern marriage required spending the night. Luckily we lived near our parents. So when I’d visit him, I’d sleep on a twin bed at his parents’ house. There was a brief period where he was living with them (inbetween apartments) so he’d sleep upstairs in his bedroom. It wasn’t an ideal situation, but his parents’ were home and we took precautions to avoid being in bedrooms together and when we got ready for bed we kept things as seperate and modest as we could. Our big temptation was always to feel like we were being silly and to think “hey we can handle this. I don’t feel tempted at all.” Then we’d compromise a bit and be perfectly fine and then one day it just was different and we’d be committing one sin or another. We’d go to confession, pick up our resolve and start again.

Chastity is something we all struggle with in one manner or another. We have to be honest with ourselves and recognize that it is a battle. Don’t play with fire.

I think you are underestimating people and overestimating the difficulties from being together after marriage.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Hello,
I wanted to know your opinion regarding this matter. I know that many people say it is not good for a boy to spend the night at his girl friend’s place or vice versa. This is because it might cause a temptation to sin. In a hypothetical case if the boy and girl were to spend a night together and there is definitely nothing sexual going to happen between them (because they have awesome self-control), and all they want to do is spend time in each other’s arms. How is this different from a boy and girl cuddling up on a couch and watching a movie together? Is this just frowned upon or immoral?
Thanks!

Boy, you are an iron man! I could not do it!
Woman is petrol, man is fire! Of course you can approach one to the other and control what is sooner or later to happen but …
Unless one is made of iron or stone…

 

[twoangels]

Is this immoral? Or venial sin?

Near occassion of sins are not grave offenses. However the way sexuality works makes them very important to avoid in successfully cultivating the virtue of chastity in your heart. Every Catholic should be going to confession at least once a month even if they only have venial sins or near occassions of sin to confess. If you go regularly, you give yourself a confessor to hold yourself accountable to and that confessor can help guide you through the careful path of dating.

Its important to remember that God did not institute dating. He insisted marriage. Dating is our invention to help us make wise marriage decisions so that we might have happier marriages. If we are not discerning marriage or are not at an age where we’re ready to discern marriage, we should not be “in a relationship”. Rather we should casually date, which in todays terms would be understood as hanging out as “just friends.”

The gravity of the sexual sin depends on where you are in the discerning process. Kissing a person you have no intention of courting I would consider a serious offense. However kissing your fiance at most a potential near occassion of sin. Its not wrong except that at that point of the relationship sometimes passions stir so much when you’re engaged that its hard to keep even the most innocent acts of affection from escalating.

 

[xihha]

In my opinion its not really any different from cuddling up on the couch, there is tempation to do more than that on the couch and obvioudly there will be temptation if you’re spending the night together but if you both have awesome self-control then its not wrong. It will usually be harder than controlling yourself while watching a movie but if your self-control is strong enough then its ok… personaly, before i got married, i would have found it a massive challenge not to do anything I shouldnt so avoided the situation but my self-control, and my faith, wasn’t that strong then.

 

[Viki63]

This is a bad idea.
What’s the point of spending the night together anyway? Does the couple plan to keep doing this until they fall into sin?
Even if nothing happens, it is an occasion of scandal. People should sleep in their own homes until they get married.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Kissing could be appropriate(I think). Definitely no sex or petting.

Kissing outside of marriage is a sin against chastity if done for arousal (i.e. with tongues and prolonged). A quick kiss on the lips is fine though.

 

[Margie9]

get…real!

 

[twoangels]

I think you are underestimating people and overestimating the difficulties from being together after marriage.

It took my husband and I two months of therapy to be able to consumate our marriage. I know what I’m talking about.

The facts and myths about unconsumated marriages
old.bermansexualhealth.com/gynecology/facts-and-myths-about-an-often-unspoken-issue-unconsummated-marr-4.html

"The causes of an unconsummated marriage can be varied, and complex. The reasons that a couple have for never having intercourse range from simple lack of sexual education and actual inability to determine how, to sexual dysfunction of the man, woman, or both partners.

Most couples, however, are dismayed to find they are unable to have sexual intercourse, whether their first attempts to do so were prior to, or after the marriage. Often, simple embarrassment prevents them from confiding in or consulting with anyone, thus perpetuating the condition, often for several years.

Many people believe that unconsummated marriages are more common in faith-based communities, where sexual intercourse is postponed until marriage. The assumption is that sexual intercourse among the deeply religious is considered “bad” and even once they are married, the couple cant get over the previous patterns of avoiding sexually arousing activities that could “get out of hand.” While in many cases, guilt regarding sexuality may inhibit sexual performance, the assumption that religious couples have more sexual problems may be completely unfounded.

Unfortunately, statistics are not available to determine whether unconsummated marriage is more common in religious populations. While many practitioners report that they see more religious couples presenting with unconsummated marriage, it is likely that it is precisely a strong sense of family values, monogamy and desire for a traditional marital sexual life that may prompt religious couples to seek treatment, and to do so sooner than their secular counterparts. The fact is that in Orthodox Judaism, for example, sexual activity between a man and wife is viewed as a positive commandment, and consummation of marriage is expected on the wedding night or shortly thereafter. Orthodox Jews are far more likely to seek help early on, as a sexual relationship that excludes penile-vaginal penetration presents difficulties regarding ejaculatory restrictions, and hinders procreation, an important Jewish value.

 

[chipeto]

Boy, you are an iron man! I could not do it!
Woman is petrol, man is fire! Of course you can approach one to the other and control what is sooner or later to happen but …
Unless one is made of iron or stone…

Or dead! To spend the night with my girlfriend in my arms and not do anything? I wouldn’t be able to sleep.

What’s the point of spending the night together anyway? Does the couple plan to keep doing this until they fall into sin?

get…real!

This is my favorite response so far.

 

[Fr_Michael_Grac]

Apart from the question of scandal, and the vast improbability of “nothing happening” this line of thought is an age old and dangerous one. The question should not be how can I (just buy the skin of my teeth) avoid sin, but rather how can I foster virtue?

Would you be comfortable with your husband/wife sleeping in a bed with someone but not doing anything? Of course not, even if the other was a highly self controlled vampire Twilight reference (which is where this silly idea originates).

Strive to not just avoid sin but to grow in holiness and virtue

 

[1inICXC]

Well, there is the matter of scandal.

If there is absolutely-no-way-that-anything-sexual-can-happen in the scenario you describe, then at least one of them is gay or dead. Possibly both.

This!

If you love each other that much you would not put your souls in this risk.

Married, mature couples can tell you how much of a sacrifice it is to abstain when you spend lots od time in close proximity of each other.

I dont know if you are the guy or the girl, but as much as the girl can be TOTALLY satisfied with cuddling, for a man this is just arousal so it would be very uncharitable to place this burden on him.

It’s one thing to comfort each other in hard times or to give a hug, it’s a completely different thing to spend the night in each other’s arms!

 

[kancharles]

This is a bad idea.
What’s the point of spending the night together anyway? Does the couple plan to keep doing this until they fall into sin?
Even if nothing happens, it is an occasion of scandal. People should sleep in their own homes until they get married.

Sometimes in a long distance relationship, when one person is visiting the other, it is possible they spend the night in the same place (save money on motel).