Small particles of the host - why no concern?

[paperwight]

CRV:

But when it is being putting into this special receptacle (a vasculum is also used for this purpose), it is known to be a consecrated host - so again all care must be taken.

Surely this can’t be so? Still a consecrated host? Sent down a drain to the ground? Even with ‘all care’ I can’t believe this is Catholic teaching - i.e. that the host remind the body of Christ?

I think I see what you are getting at, Five-Linden. The Church accepts that by putting any small fragments of a consecrated Host into water, the fragments then lose the appearance of bread and so there is no longer the Real Presence. As there is no longer the Real Presence, the water plus dissolved fragment can then be poured down a sacrarium if the church has one (ours doesn’t) or on to the ground where it will not be walked on, in the same way as we dispose of Holy Water.

if the Church believed that there was still the Real Presence, even though the fragment no longer had the appearance of bread, because of being dissolved in the water, the practice would have to be to reverently drink the water to avoid any disrespect to the Blessed Sacrament. But the Church doesn’t say to do this…

My conclusion? Once the fragment no longer has the appearance of bread, the Real Presence ceases. which is precisely what the Church teaches, and can equally apply tp particles which resemble dust and may very well be dust - certainly not recognisable bread.

 

[FiveLinden]

I see! That seems logical, but a view not shared by all here. Some seem to think that the smallest possible particle has the same status as a whole consecrated host. I tried both the Catechism and Canon Law but could not find formal teaching on this. Where would this be found?

 

[CRV]

When put into the vasculum - not sacrarium. A consecrated host or part thereof is put into the vasculum with water until it dissolves and no longer resembles a host /bread.

Then it can be poured down the sacrarium.

 

[JMMJ]

It seams to me that Jesus invented communion with a full understanding of the physical properties of bread and wine. I don’t think he sweats wayward crumbs.

 

[CRV]

smallest possible particle has the same status as a whole consecrated host.

It does. If you can visibly see it. The same as if you receive just an eighth of a host you receive all of Jesus. The same if you receive just a single drop of precious blood it is the same Jesus as if you had a larger sip.

 

[FiveLinden]

It does. If you can visibly see it. The same as if you receive just an eighth of a host you receive all of Jesus. The same if you receive just a single drop of precious blood it is the same Jesus as if you had a larger sip.

OK I’d be happy to accept this is Catholic belief. But can you tell me where it is actually taught? Paperwight above seems to have a far more rational approach.

 

[FiveLinden]

I have food a pretty clear authority that says particles must have the form of bread.

Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

Declaration Cum de fragmentis
On Particles of the Consecrated Hosts *

Regarding hosts left over after communion, several queries have been directed to the Apostolic See. Therefore this Congregation, after consultation with the Congregations for the Discipline of the Sacraments and for Divine Worship, has decided on the following response.

Regarding hosts left over after communion, several queries have been directed to the Apostolic See. Therefore this Congregation, after consultation with the Congregations for the Discipline of the Sacraments and for Divine Worship, has decided on the following response.

After communion, the left-over hosts, as well as any particles that may have fallen from them and that still have the form of bread, are to be reserved or consumed with the reverence due to the eucharistic presence of Christ. Further, with regard to any other eucharistic fragments, the prescriptions on purifying the chalice and paten are to be observed as they are given in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal nos. 120, 138, 237-239 and in the Order of Mass with a congregation no. 138 and without a congregation no. 31. Hosts not consumed at once are to be carried by an authorized minister to the place where the blessed sacrament is reserved (see General Instruction of the Roman Missal no. 276).

• May 2, 1972.

 

[Rob2]

This version of the Adoro te devote by Gerard Manley Hopkins S.J. is helpful for me when reflecting on the Eucharistic Presence of Jesus .

Godhead here in hiding, whom I do adore,
Masked by these bare shadows, shape and nothing more,
See, Lord, at thy service low lies here a heart
Lost, all lost in wonder at the God thou art.

Seeing, touching, tasting are in thee deceived:
How says trusty hearing? that shall be believed;
What God’s Son has told me, take for truth I do;
Truth himself speaks truly or there’s nothing true.

On the cross thy godhead made no sign to men,
Here thy very manhood steals from human ken:
Both are my confession, both are my belief,
And I pray the prayer of the dying thief.

I am not like Thomas, wounds I cannot see,
But can plainly call thee Lord and God as he;
Let me to a deeper faith daily nearer move,
Daily make me harder hope and dearer love.

O thou our reminder of Christ crucified,
Living Bread, the life of us for whom he died,
Lend this life to me then: feed and feast my mind,
There be thou the sweetness man was meant to find.

Bring the tender tale true of the Pelican;
Bathe me, Jesu Lord, in what thy bosom ran—
Blood whereof a single drop has power to win
All the world forgiveness of its world of sin.

Jesu, whom I look at shrouded here below,
I beseech thee send me what I thirst for so,
Some day to gaze on thee face to face in light
And be blest for ever with thy glory’s sight. Amen.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Out of interest: how many of those deeply concerned about this suffer from scruples?

It is not scrupulous to maintain, as the Church does, that any particles that retain the appearance of bread (and that would include crumbs) are indeed the Body of Christ.

In the EF rubrics, after the consecration the priest holds his thumb and forefinger together until after communion of the laity and his thumb and forefinger are purified during the following ablutions . This is so to ensure no visible particle (regardless of how small) of Our Lord is lost. For the love of and reverence of Our Lord, to prevent any sacrilege from occurring.

And beside the Tabernacle is (it is at mine) a Vasculum with water for the priest to dip the tips of his fingers in, after touching the Blessed Sacrament, lest any particle be stuck to his fingers and inadvertently lost.

So if a priest takes care not to loose any visible particle of the consecrated host, then surely the lay faithful should do no less?

Do EMHCs ever use the vasculum? More to the point, do EMHCs purify their hands after they have handled all those hosts? If not, why not? Why does the priest purify his hands (even in the OF/Novus Ordo) and the EMHCs do not? Do they not all handle the Body of Christ?

 

[Sarcelle]

I remember sneezing after partaking of the Eucharist.

It was hay fever season and when I sneezed, particles of the Host came out.

I count not find any particles on the floor but I was concerned. I made sure to talk to my priest after mass about this and he told me not to worry about it.

Have I accidentally committed sacrilege?

Is there even such a thing as accidental sacrilege?

 

[CilladeRoma]

If your priest told you not to worry, don’t worry.

And no, one cannot commit sacrilege accidently. For it to be sacrilege, there must be intent.

 

[vz71]

If a particle is so small it would not be identified as having the appearance of bread unless you knew its origin surely it ceases to be anything but something that was once consecrated just as a host does if it is dissolved in water?

This logic does not hold.
The Real Presence does not depend upon our knowledge of things.
The question is of a crumb too small to identify as bread without prior knowledge…
The better question is, do these crumbs continue to have the physical properties of bread?

You can’t go wrong assuming so, dissolving it in water and pouring it down sacrarium.

 

[godisgood77]

And if you don’t mind my asking, why is that?

Not at all.

First, it was never a concern for my family and remains that way. Reason being, we believe God to be tough enough to deal with the realities of the world he created and the way he chooses enter it.

Second, I believe that God is more interested in higher minded things like those Jesus taught about during the his earthly life… groveling around trying to make sure a particle didn’t fall does not seem to check that box.

 

[JustLOL]

What of the crumbs around our mouths unknowingly wiped away later?

 

[vz71]

we believe God to be tough enough to deal with the realities of the world he created and the way he chooses enter it.

Sorry, but the following is what I am hearing when I read your message:

We should not take care and be reverent. God is tougher then that and can take care of himself.
Consecrated host on the floor… trample it. God knew what he was getting into when he came to us in that manner.

Please tell me that there is some nuance to your position that I have missed.

 

[paperwight]

What of the crumbs around our mouths unknowingly wiped away later?

Crumbs round your mouth?! I am seriously shocked as to the quality and size of the altar breads used in some parishes, judging by some posts here.

Pieces breaking off right, left and centre? Crumbs being left round the mouth?

Come on. now.

 

[angel12]

What of the crumbs around our mouths unknowingly wiped away later?

How on earth could that happen?

 

[godisgood77]

Sorry, but the following is what I am hearing when I read your message:

No apology necessary… seeking to understand is a good.

We should not take care and be reverent.

No, I did not say that or mean that. We should be reverent as the Church teaches us to be, but we should take care not to be scrupulous.

God is tougher then that and can take care of himself.

What I mean is that I do not believe God is concerned with the particles… I believe that obsessing over such should be examined for scrupulosity. I believe that there are higher minded things that God has called us to focus on.

Consecrated host on the floor… trample it.

No, I did not say or imply that anyone should purposefully or otherwise try to destroy a consecrated host… I think that is the most negative possible reading of my comment.

 

[vz71]

I think that is the most negative possible reading of my comment.

Fair enough.
However, this is GOD. Every part is the most precious gift that can be given.
Every part is the whole. And we should make every effort to keep these from being desecrated… should we not?

 

[JustLOL]

How on earth could that happen?

probably can’t…it was sarcasm. I viewed the original post not to be about particles falling on the altar or floor, but more of a condemnation of receiving in the hand.