Smaller Church Ok: Archbishop Nienstedt

[ProVobis]

Protestants are free to form consensus, follow fads, rule from the bottom up, fire the minister or find another denomination. We lived through forty years of change, experimentation, and a break with tradition and are currently suffering the consequences. Our current pontiff and clergymen like Archbishop Nienstedt are rebuilding from the damage.

It is true that the Protestants have less strict rules. That might have been one of the reasons why a lot of Catholic rules, such as Friday abstinence and communion fast, were relaxed, so that the Catholic faith would be more appealing to them. But strangely enough, at least from the Protestants I know, they are more serious in their churchgoing and penances such as Lenten resolutions, for example. Go figure.

 

[maurin]

I don’t think this is a valid claim. There are atheists and non-Christians who oppose abortions.

Fundamentalist sects, yes, but the “many” to which Ockham referred, I believe, are sects such as the methodists or episcopalians: the former’s commercials in the States, and the latter’s “episcopal ordinations” show clearly his point.

 

[Ockham]

It is true that the Protestants have less strict rules. That might have been one of the reasons why a lot of Catholic rules, such as Friday abstinence and communion fast, were relaxed, so that the Catholic faith would be more appealing to them. But strangely enough, at least from the Protestants I know, they are more serious in their churchgoing and penances such as Lenten resolutions, for example. Go figure.

It’s also worth noting the first significant group of Protestants to begin the process back home are the Traditional Anglicans who in many aspects are more Catholic than some Catholics today. If Pope Paul VI enforced the tradition of the Church and didn’t issue that indult, the Dutch may have gone into schism but we might have more practicing Catholics believing in the Real Presence and attending Mass every Sunday. Addition by subtraction.

 

[ProVobis]

It’s also worth noting the first significant group of Protestants to begin the process back home are the Traditional Anglicans who in many aspects are more Catholic than some Catholics today.

I’m not defending any Protestants but you can probably say the same for Baptists and the Missouri Synod Lutherans as well. I have more Lutherans and Muslims living around me than Catholics and a pro-choice political candidate wouldn’t have a prayer of winning in my district.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Annabelle Marie, if you don’t want to spend time learning Church history that’s your prerogative. However, it may benefit you to be a little softer with those who have and are charitably trying to answer a question you posed.

CITH began in a rebellious place, during a rebellious time as a symbol of rebellion. There is no Scriptural nor Papal support for it. The Church throughout its history has not stated anything good about it. It’s related because an attitude of rebellion on one issue leads to others.

Archbishop Nienstedt has a priest in his diocese who openly criticizes him on topics such as gay marriage and adoption. Such rebellion is to be exposed and seen for what it is - defiance of God. Our role is to follow the direction God’s Church gives us, not dicate from below. The Truth doesn’t change, follow fads, or rebel.

I don’t mean to be uncharible…truly. But in learning about Church History…did you read all that I’m currently doing? How that is not learning about church history and teaching…is beyond me:shrug: Because I don’t agree with you about CITH? I don’t. I’m not saying that sometime in the future I might change my mind but currently…not.

I was trying to keep it on track as to really what the article was about…which you have summarized nicely in your last paragraph. And I agree with the article.

Seriously I don’t know how I was being uncharitable other then to not agree with you about the CITH…

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I don’t think this is a valid claim. There are atheists and non-Christians who oppose abortions.

I guess I don’t see how that lines up with what I was saying. You can oppose abortion and not be Christian. I was arguing that. I have just personally seen many churchs change there thinking on those lines or keep quiet about it according to what people want. I’ve personally been in a small AOG church where the main contributers were for abortion…so guess what…never heard anything against abortion from the pulpit. I’ve even been in conservative Baptist churches where they don’t talk about those things. I know there are many Lutherns upset about them allowing open homosexuals to be clergy. These are things that I’m not so sure would be openly protested 40 to 50 years ago. Maybe it is in the difference of where we live:shrug:

 

[ProVobis]

I guess I don’t see how that lines up with what I was saying. You can oppose abortion and not be Christian. I was arguing that. I have just personally seen many churchs change there thinking on those lines or keep quiet about it according to what people want. I’ve personally been in a small AOG church where the main contributers were for abortion…so guess what…never heard anything against abortion from the pulpit. I’ve even been in conservative Baptist churches where they don’t talk about those things. I know there are many Lutherns upset about them allowing open homosexuals to be clergy. These are things that I’m not so sure would be openly protested 40 to 50 years ago. Maybe it is in the difference of where we live:shrug:

You may be right on the homosexuals. I don’t have any statistics as to how many there are from each denomination or how many support G.M. so I won’t comment further on that.

 

[Ockham]

Seriously I don’t know how I was being uncharitable other then to not agree with you about the CITH…

I asked you if you were aware how CITH got into the GIRM not if you wanted to debate its merits. We’re all busy these days but it doesn’t take long to find out CITH’s history if you know where to look or who to ask.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I asked you if you were aware how CITH got into the GIRM not if you wanted to debate its merits. We’re all busy these days but it doesn’t take long to find out CITH’s history if you know where to look or who to ask.

I don’t know where to look…but you have educated me. Can we leave it at that?

 

[Ockham]

Sure, we can leave it at that. If you ever want to learn Church history on CITH let me know and I’ll send you some links. You’ll discover that you are not disagreeing with me but Holy Mother Church.