Smoke rising from cup during Consecration-

[THurifer2]

No No Elisha Maura made the incorrect blanket statement that there is more than one saint who said to stay away from private revelations.

the comments about the matter are perplexing to me… I question credibility on the issue…(not credibility in general)

Myself along with several others who are PMing each other on this topic find it odd that ANY saint would say avoid private revelations. Especially since virually every saint had some devotion or other that came to the church through private revelation.

The post who quoted St. John of the cross said nothing of avoiding private revelation. Elisha Maura reposted the quotation about SJoC and twisted it into somthing else…

People do know what private revelation is right?

Lourdes and the story of Bernadette is an example of private revelation

The forums ban NON CHURCH APPROVED private revelation

 

[Eilish_Maura]

No No Elisha Maura made the incorrect blanket statement that there is more than one saint who said to stay away from private revelations.

the comments about the matter are perplexing to me… I question credibility on the issue…(not credibility in general)

Myself along with several others who are PMing each other on this topic find it odd that ANY saint would say avoid private revelations. Especially since virually every saint had some devotion or other that came to the church through private revelation.

The post who quoted St. John of the cross said nothing of avoiding private revelation. Elisha Maura reposted the quotation about SJoC and twisted it into somthing else…

People do know what private revelation is right?

Lourdes and the story of Bernadette is an example of private revelation

The forums ban NON CHURCH APPROVED private revelation

Can you get past trying to make me the enemy long enough to address the question of what was the quote in reference to if not private revelation?

BTW - the Patron Saint of Joy (aka the Bell of the Jesuits and the 2nd Apostle to Rome) was advised by his early spiritual director and advised those in his company to avoid ‘such things’ as people with visions etc (aka private revelation).

It is really not so odd - and I am sure there are more than those two examples.

BTW - the ‘virtually every saint’ statement is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[Pong]

What does it mean when someone sees smoke rising from the cup before and during Consecration?

I think it means it’s blue pill day… lol

 

[THurifer2]

BTW - the Patron Saint of Joy (aka the Bell of the Jesuits and the 2nd Apostle to Rome) was advised by his early spiritual director and advised those in his company to avoid ‘such things’ as people with visions etc (aka private revelation).

.

Including Church approved private revelation?

St Philip NERI!?!?!??!!?!??!?!? The very saint who LEVITATED.

The very saint who said he had a vision of St. John the Baptist.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Including Church approved private revelation?

St Philip NERI!?!?!??!!?!??!?!? The very saint who LEVITATED.

Levitation is same as private revelation??

And yes - including Church approved private revelation.

BTW - nothing more re what St. John of the Cross meant in that quote if not private revelation??

 

[THurifer2]

Levitation is same as private revelation??

And yes - including Church approved private revelation.

BTW - nothing more re what St. John of the Cross meant in that quote if not private revelation??

St. Philip Neri the same guy who had and reported a vision of St. John the baptist?

SOunds rather contradictory doesn’t it?

St. John of the Cross? same guy who had visions of hell?

His discourse was on PERSONAL visions not PRIVATE REVELATION.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

James

Claiming that a Saint said something and providing a source are two entirely different things. You made a claim that multiple saints have advised staying away from private revelations. You are being asked to back that up. How is that picking on you?

I’m the one who made the statement, so, I’ll back it up.

It must be known that even though these aprehensions can come to the bodily senses from God, one must never rely on them or accept them. A person should rather flee from them completely and have no desire as to examine whether they are good or bad.
Ascent of Mt Carmel, Chapter 11, paragraph 2.

In this chapter, St. John uses the term, “aprehensions.” meaning the perception, either sensory or spiritual.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Eilish_Maura]

St. Philip Neri the same guy who had and reported a vision of St. John the baptist?

SOunds rather contradictory doesn’t it?

St. John of the Cross? same guy who had visions of hell?

His discourse was on PERSONAL visions not PRIVATE REVELATION.

Never heard of Neri having a vision of John the Baptist and I have two of the biographies on him nor have I heard any Oratorian priest speak of it (I used to go to Brooklyn Oratory when I was still working).

LOL – straining to find something to cling to? What private revelations are not ‘personal’ revelations?

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I never knew that St. Philip Neri levitated !!

I did know that St. Joseph of Copertino (Cupertino)
was well known for flying through the air, which was
witnessed by hundreds of people at many different times.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[THurifer2]

LOL – straining to find something to cling to?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Lourdes

Even that started as personal.

 

[Linnyo]

Even that started as personal.

IMO, it seems that some people are getting personal in their arguments here. Behave yourselves!

 

[Hudsonite]

According to our Church fathers revelation never did stop. God continues to allow us have these revelations for our own good and the good of his Church.

Some people tend to go to one extreme or the other on private revelation; they either completely reject the concept or they consider private revelation their chief rule of faith.

Test everything; retain what is good" (1 Thess. 5:19–21).

I believe that many of us have different things happen to us that are from God. How often is one approached for help and after helping them, they disappear? How often has an angel of God come down to help pull someone out of an accident or intervene in a car crash? What’ about prophetic dreams?

It happened to me and possibly to you all too. If you’re paying attention you can see Gods miracles all around you. Whether God reveals himself in the Host or for those with Holy imaginations who can see the angels at a Mass.

Test everything; retain what is good" (1 Thess. 5:19–21).

PS. I don’t believe that when we have these things we need to write books or go on national TV but we do need to test them. Ask God for help and if the are from God, He will reveal. They are usually there for your own personal use, to help you with a struggle or so that you can help someone else’s struggle etc. We also have to make sure our conscious is well formed and use discernment. The devil is very capable of giving us things that may appear as they come from God on the surface.

 

[GemmaRose]

What does it mean when someone sees smoke rising from the cup before and during Consecration?
Anyone ever heard of this?
Thanks for any help.

Attempting to steer clear of the debate this thread has turned into and returning to the original question…

First, I think there could be many possible reasons ranging from, as others posted, eyesight problems, to optical illusions which seem extraordinarily real.

Also, you didn’t say how far away from the altar you were seated. Things seem different in the first row from the thirty-first.

My best guess (since I wasn’t there) is that there was incense burning either very close to the altar, giving the optical illusion that smoke was rising from the chalice, or that a wind current blew some incense smoke, causing it to appear to come from the chalice.

HOWEVER, if you truly did “see” something, consider it a “love note” from the Lord. Thank Him for it but don’t dwell on it. The reason I say that, and as the Saints knew (see debates above), is that the devil is very clever and can very, very easily fool anyone. Even in such a small thing as what you may have seen, the devil can (I’m not saying he did) tempt you to pride - “Hey! You want to hear what happened to me in church today?”

If you continue to see these things, and you’ve had your eyes checked, and you’re seated close enough to the altar to be sure, etc., make an apointment to speak with a priest if you don’t already have a spiritual director and discuss these matters with him.

P.S. I had a similar experience some years ago. (I don’t consider this a “revelation” so please don’t ban me! ) I was seated about 3/4’s of the way down in a small retreat chapel where I frequently made retreats and monthly days of recollection. They used to use glass chalices and they always used the same amber-colored wine. This one time, I saw wine which was dark blood red. I just thought they changed the brand of wine. When I received the Precious Blood, however, it was the same amber-colored wine they always used. I considered it to be a “love note” from Jesus, kind of like how a wife might pack an “I love you” note in her husband’s lunch. It only happened once. I’m no saint (yet ), no wings, no halo, don’t glow in the dark. Maybe it’s His way of telling us that one day we will be saints.

---

*“I wish that my heart could beat, that I could live and breathe only for Jesus, I wish that my tongue could utter no other name than that of Jesus; that my eye could see only Jesus; that my pen could write only about Jesus, and that my thoughts could soar to nothing but Jesus. I have often wondered where on earth there might be something on which I could center my love. But neither on earth nor in heaven do I find any such thing but only my beloved Jesus… I am the fruit of your passion, Jesus, born of your wounds. O Jesus, seek me in love; I no longer possess anything; you have stolen my heart…” *- St. Gemma Galgani

 

[childofmary1143]

It is unclear to me whether the OP saw something Divine or not and I would suspect there are others that share that opinion with me.

However, I can’t help but notice how some people are so quick to dismiss approved private revelation. Just because we aren’t required to believe in it doesn’t give us the right to criticize APPROVED apparitions. I personally don’t care what any Saint may say in discouraging belief in approved apparitions and I am genuinely concerned about negative attitudes that are being formed about them.

I wonder, since Public Revelation has ended with the death of St. John and that we aren’t required to believe in any Approved private revelation, then when we die and if we see God face to face in his glory then does that still apply? Our death doesn’t change the fact that Public Revelation has ended, so if I am in Heaven, can I say to God, “I don’t have to believe in you?”

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I wonder, since Public Revelation has ended with the death of St. John and that we aren’t required to believe in any Approved private revelation, then when we die and if we see God face to face in his glory then does that still apply? Our death doesn’t change the fact that Public Revelation has ended, so if I am in Heaven, can I say to God, “I don’t have to believe in you?”

Are you linking private revelation to seeing God in Heaven??

I can’t follow the ‘logic’ in this part of your post.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

However, I can’t help but notice how some people are so quick to dismiss approved private revelation. Just because we aren’t required to believe in it doesn’t give us the right to criticize APPROVED apparitions. I personally don’t care what any Saint may say in discouraging belief in approved apparitions and I am genuinely concerned about negative attitudes that are being formed about them.

BTW- where does the Church instruct us that we cannot quickly dismiss approved private revelation or that we can’t/should not criticize it?

Why should what saints have said on this topic be - even if it is to discourage belief in them – cause concerns?

 

[Hudsonite]

Amen GemmaRose! You said it like i tried to: A love note from God.

Its no different than smelling roses in the midst of Mass. It happens to let us know that they are with us and they Love us and to keep us believing at times when our faith goes astray.

Funny story: One time when Father was holding up our Lord, I saw a darker fleshier looking host in his hand (at that time I was praying “I believe Lord but help me in my disbelief”) When I went up to receive Him, I noticed that it was the same as always. I thought about it and I assumed maybe that Father had gotten some different Hosts (his are bigger than the ones we receive) so after Mass I made a comment to him about getting new bigger darker colored hosts and he looked at me like I was nuts.LOL I felt really stupid…never again will I say anything. LOL

 

[Hudsonite]

There are two kinds of revelations: (1) universal revelations, which are contained in the Bible or in the depositum of Apostolic tradition transmitted by the Church. These ended with the preaching of the Apostles and must be believed by all; (2) particular or private revelations which are constantly occurring among Christians (see CONTEMPLATION). When the Church approves private revelations, she declares only that there is nothing in them contrary faith or good morals, and that they may be read without danger or even with profit; no obligation is thereby imposed on the faithful to believe them. Speaking of such revelations as (e.g.) those of St. Hildegard (approved in part by Eugenius III), St. Bridget (by Boniface IX), and St. Catherine of Siena (by Gregory XI) Benedict XIV says: “It is not obligatory nor even possible to give them the assent of Catholic faith, but only of human faith, in conformity with the dictates of prudence, which presents them to us as probable and worthy of pius belief)” (De canon., III, liii, xxii, II).

Illusions connected with private revelations have been explained in the article CONTEMPLATION. Some of them are at first thought surprising. Thus a vision of an historical scene (e.g., of the life or death of Christ) is often only approximately accurate, although the visionary may be unaware of this fact, and he may be misled, if he believes in its absolute historical fidelity. This error is quite natural, being based on the assumption that, if the vision comes from God, all its details (the landscape, dress, words, actions, etc.) should be a faithful reproduction of the historical past. …
TO read the rest of this go to:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13005a.htm

 

[THurifer2]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

There are two kinds of revelations: (1) universal revelations, which are contained in the Bible or in the depositum of Apostolic tradition transmitted by the Church. These ended with the preaching of the Apostles and must be believed by all; (2) particular or private revelations which are constantly occurring among Christians (see CONTEMPLATION). When the Church approves private revelations, she declares only that there is nothing in them contrary faith or good morals, and that they may be read without danger or even with profit; no obligation is thereby imposed on the faithful to believe them. Speaking of such revelations as (e.g.) those of St. Hildegard (approved in part by Eugenius III), St. Bridget (by Boniface IX), and St. Catherine of Siena (by Gregory XI) Benedict XIV says: “It is not obligatory nor even possible to give them the assent of Catholic faith, but only of human faith, in conformity with the dictates of prudence, which presents them to us as probable and worthy of pius belief)” (De canon., III, liii, xxii, II).

Illusions connected with private revelations have been explained in the article CONTEMPLATION. Some of them are at first thought surprising. Thus a vision of an historical scene (e.g., of the life or death of Christ) is often only approximately accurate, although the visionary may be unaware of this fact, and he may be misled, if he believes in its absolute historical fidelity. This error is quite natural, being based on the assumption that, if the vision comes from God, all its details (the landscape, dress, words, actions, etc.) should be a faithful reproduction of the historical past. …
TO read the rest of this go to:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13005a.htm

:irish3: