Smoking is intrinsically disorderd

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cargau said:
So does snoring, but that’s not sinful. …
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More than once in our long and happy marrage, we’ve slept seperately due to my wife’s snoring - particulalry when I need to get a goon nights sleep followed by an early start. The snoring is bad, but the gutteral clicking noise she makes some nights is unbearable 😦
 
Grace & Peace!

One should also recall the damage smoking does to others (particularly children and infants) through second-hand smoke. Not only does smoking amount to willful self-destruction for the sake of fleeting pleasure, but it contributes to the destruction of others as well.

I think the OP has a very good point.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
 
I think my point is very valid. When something is listed in the catechism as intrinsically disordered, it’s usually something that is done for selfish pleasure, that does not lead to charity, that is harmful to oneself and others, can harm marriage, lead to indifference in things, not the true intended use of an important part of the body, etc…not good in any amount.

Those that say good in moderation, why does masturbation then not fall under a vice, instead of grave matter? It’s all of the above, and in moderation some may argue is not bad…some wives/husbands may be fine with their spouse doing it, .but its defined as grave matter.

Even medical professionals and mental health practitioners say it’s a health thing to do. I’ve never heard the medical profession say any amount of smoking was good for you…
 
To be brief - it doesn’t matter what you think or how valid you think your point is - the CHURCH says masturbation is intrinsically disordered. It does not say smoking is intrinsically disordered.

We can agree, disagree, argue, debate and discuss - but thats how THE CHURCH sees it, and that’s how it is.
ForwardProgress said:
I think my point is very valid. When something is listed in the catechism as intrinsically disordered, it’s usually something that is done for selfish pleasure, that does not lead to charity, that is harmful to oneself and others, can harm marriage, lead to indifference in things, not the true intended use of an important part of the body, etc…not good in any amount.

Those that say good in moderation, why does masturbation then not fall under a vice, instead of grave matter? It’s all of the above, and in moderation some may argue is not bad…some wives/husbands may be fine with their spouse doing it, .but its defined as grave matter.

Even medical professionals and mental health practitioners say it’s a health thing to do. I’ve never heard the medical profession say any amount of smoking was good for you…
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Can’t argue with you there, brotha! For the record, I don’t engage in this act (impurity). I probably would if I could, though!
 
ForwardProgress said:
Can’t argue with you there, brotha! For the record, I don’t engage in this act (impurity). I probably would if I could, though!
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You openly admit you would masturbate. :eek: I just don’t get that.

And I don’t think you understand the seriousness of abusing sexuality. God gave us sexuality to make, in love, another human being. Not to toy around with for our own pleasure. It does no good to the human race and please for the love that is all good don’t tell me getting off with a magazine(or whatever they use) is good way to stay healthy. People can run, lift, weights, pushups, pull-ups to stay healthy. Leave masturbation out of this.
 
What I don’t get is the utter and complete obsession some people have with masturbation. It seems to take over their every waking moment.

Personally I never give it a second thought. And I never think about whether other people are doing it either :rolleyes:

If I sin, I confess, and try and do my best. That’s all humanly I’m able to do. 🤷

The rest will be in the hands of our MERCIFUL GOD 😉
 
I’m sure that nobody on this thread is old enough to recall the early Muriel cigar commercials. (bad sound)

I know a certain physician who likes to attend a medical conference in Cancun or Hawaii once a year. A little medical education combined with a relaxing time. He doesn’t smoke; he doesn’t drink. But on these once a year occasions, he’s been known to enjoy a fine wine and a $250 cigar. I’m not going to accuse him of sin as long as he takes good care of my eyes.
 
It is somewhat shocking to see on this thread those who cannot grasp the difference between smoking (not a sin) and masturbation (a serious sin). What is seriously ‘disordered’ on this thread is some of the thinking.

In the garden satan told adam and eve that ‘you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil’. What this means is that they could decide for themselves what is good and what is evil.

This is the way much of the world today, even catholics, now think. They decide what is good or bad according to their own opinion rather than looking to God and his authority in the Church to tell them what is truly good or truly evil.

The Holy Father just yesterday in his address to the bishops mentioned this very problem. A copy of the speech is available in many places such as here.

chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/198041?eng=y

Here is the quote I am referring to:
This is aggravated by an individualistic and eclectic approach to faith and religion: far from a Catholic approach to **“thinking with the Church”, **each person believes he or she has a right to pick and choose, maintaining external social bonds but without an integral, interior conversion to the law of Christ
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.

This type of disordered thinking leads to all manner of not just sin, but fanaticism, a complete loss of reason and an inability to see and understand** truth**, which is why we are so warned about this.

If you do not smoke or find it distasteful or feel after years of nazi like propaganda that it is very harmful to one’s health…then don’t smoke. But to think that you know more than the Church and to think you should tell us what the Church ought to teach is disordered and arrogant thinking.

Likewise if the Church in it’s 2000 years of wisdom and guidance from the Holy Spirit has degreed that masturbation is indeed gravely evil…then you can be sure, they know what they are saying. We have God’s promise to be with the Church and guide it.

Catholics need to “think with the Church” not decide for themselves what is good or evil. To feel you know better than the Church, which is guided by God, is the height of pride.

Satan indeed knew what he was doing when he tempted adam and eve. And he is still using the same old tricks today.

Beware of not “thinking with the Church” and hence thinking in a disordered manner and sadly not being aware that you in a most dangerous state - that of losing the faith and worst of all losing the faith and not realizing you have lost it…

Trust in God and his Church not your own thinking because without the light of God we are indeed in a very dark state.
 
ForwardProgress said:
I think my point is very valid. When something is listed in the catechism as intrinsically disordered, it’s usually something that is done for selfish pleasure, that does not lead to charity, that is harmful to oneself and others, can harm marriage, lead to indifference in things, not the true intended use of an important part of the body, etc…not good in any amount.
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I’m not sure your argument is valid. The Catechism describes exactly three actions (lying, calumny (mentioned in aside #1753), and masturbation (#2352)) and one category (homosexual acts (#2357)) as intrinsically disordered. While it is unlikely this is meant to be an exhaustive list, similarly I believe one cannot draw a generalization as to *why *an act or behavior is *intrinsically disordered *from that brief enumeration.

:twocents:
tee
 
My confession
I am 51 years old. I have been smoking since 1972. I smoked through college. I smoked through the Army. And through all the jobs I have had and have. I cannot count the times I have tried to quit. I still buy them at a few packs at a time for just that. I now smoke a little less than a pack a day. I do not smoke indoors, or in my car. I don’t smoke when I eat, or when I drink coffee. Heck, I do not even drink alcohol. And I do not smoke around other people……unless they are smoking as well. Is smoking a sin? I guess so on some level. But that is between me and God. We talk about this daily.
 
cargau said:
Now, before you get after me, I am not trying to sell the concept of smoking as a good thing. It’s simply one thing a person chooses to do. Only when the use of tobacco becomes so abused that it does do harm can it be considered sinful. Use the same principle but insert the use of red meat, candy, the internet, TV, etc…
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Oh, I agree - I only said “I wonder if…” in my post. A good cigar with a glass of fine bourbon is a risk woth taking, in my opinion.
 
I still haven’t been able to figure out if the purpose of this thread is to condemn smoking or to justify masturbation. 🤷
 
I can’t see any value to smoking. It does nothing but kill. There is plenty of evidence that even second hand smoke kills. Since, therefore, it only kills without serving any medicinal value it should be considered intrinsically disordered.
 
I’m not sure if smoking is a sin or not. Before I had my family I used to drink and smoke a lot. I stopped when I found out I was expecting my first child. But one day this past year I was feeling really down and smoked a cigeratte. (The day I bought the cigerettes there was a buy one pack, get one free. And I thought what is going on…what about all the packs I had bought when I was younger I never got a deal like that.) Anyways, later I heard this on tv.

"That you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. " — Romans 12:1

After that I felt guilty about the cigerette…I eventually tossed them. I’m not perfect.
 
So tobacco use is now one of the sins crying out to heaven for vengeance? (And number two on the list is producing carbon dioxide?) Sorry, I’m not buying it. And no, I don’t smoke.
 
JimG said:
So tobacco use is now one of the sins crying out to heaven for vengeance? (And number two on the list is producing carbon dioxide?) Sorry, I’m not buying it. And no, I don’t smoke.
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It doesn’t have to cry out to heaven to be considered mortal. If it does nothing but kill it should be considered mortal sin. As I have already stated smoking has no medicinal value whatsoever and only kills, not just the smoker, but also the ones who have to breathe in the filth.
 
I am an ex-smoker. I smoked from 18 until I was about 36. I have quit about 14 years ago.

It is a terrible addictive drug and should be banned.

I will pray a Hail Mary for all the smokers on this thread so that they may be able to quit. God bless all of you. 🙂
 
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