So are we supposed to hate ourselves?

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Since I am related to sports, I can say that only those who have completely rejected themselves - achieve success.
The most successful are the most sacrificial, and even those who have been through the impossible.
In wrestling, it is necessary to forget about bruises, about pain, it is necessary to get used to pain, and there is even a transition from hatred from training process to pleasure from training process.
Only those who reject themselves, work two, three times longer than others - only those succeed.
But before they have to sacrifice a lot. There should be a super discipline, it is necessary to reject many pleasures, companies, weaknesses.
Sport by analogy is in many ways similar to the battle in the spiritual life of a believer.
The Apostle Paul in his letter also cites the example of the athlete and the warrior, as the analogy with the spiritual life.
 
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Neither do the saints, especially if you were to read more of their writing, going beyond cherry picked passages.
 
That’s fair enough. I doubt they cry about how weak their muscles are though. I assume they neutrally identify the areas they have to work on and get to work. I also assume that their coaches don’t tell them to hate themselves and their current physical status in order to improve.
 
Jesus says we should hate anything that separates us from closer union with Him, and so do the saints.

I think you’re beating a long ago shown to be empty point, propped up with a few cherry picked quotes from saints.
 
No offense but “deserve to be hated” can hardly be considered cherry picking mate there is little way to make that look good. There’s also the psychological suggestion behind the practical suggestion which; unless I’ve horribly misunderstood it seems hard to defend.
 
The point is that it is a consistent theme. I have no point. Just a question/insecurity that I am trying to explain away.
 
Well don’t you think Judas deserved to be hated?

Would Our Lady have been justified for having some hate and contempt for what Judas did to her Son?

And we’re any better than Judas? Really?
 
If you had a child whom you absolutely loved and this child viewed himself of herself in the manner you just described, how would it make you feel?

Do you think God wants people to think this way? God wants people to acknowledge the truth. Having an exaggerated sense of self-loathing is not humility.
 
Our sins are wretched. We crucify Jesus every day if we’re honest. We fail to recognize Him, we go against His will, we hurt people He loves.

We aren’t wretched only by the virtue of His Incarnation, Life, Death and Resurrection, by our sharing in His Divine life as a result of Baptism and Holy Eucharist.

But without that sanctifying grace…we’re deserving of hate for what we do to Jesus every day.

Anyone who doesn’t see the truth in this is blinded by their pride or vanity.
 
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I’m not sure who has expressed an “exagerated sense of self-loathing” here or in the Saints’ writings.

But not to recognize the truth that every day we do something to nail Jesus the Cross is to be blinded by pride.

That’s not exagerated self loathing…it’s the truth of the History of Redemption.
 
No I don’t believe Judas deserved to be hated. Do I think Our Lady was hurt? Yes but that is emotion because it personally affected her. Do murderers deserve to be hated? In my opinion no. God still loves those people, even if they end up in Hell. Are we better than Judas/ insert other figure here? Yes and no. There’s two ways of judging this, the human standard and God’s standard. By the human stanard yes we are (probably). By God’s standard… problem is that His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not out thoughts. He has no passions and He demonstrated His love for sinners in His Passion. Now does he “hate” sin? Yes, but it hardly seems to be the way we’d hate it and we can hardly equivalate with human emotions and it seems there is no reason to do so.
 
I was referring to Ioana’s previous post about viewing oneself as vile, detestable, utterly worthless, and fully deserving of everything bad that comes one’s way.

If that is not self-loathing I don’t know what is.
 
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Jesus chose, simply because it pleased Him to do so to let Himself be crucified by our sins. Had He not done that our sins would still have a negative effect on others via something that is probably similar to the multiplier effect. That’s the thing, He clearly doesn’t seem to think anybody is deserving of hatred. You said it right over there “we are deserving of hatred”. We not only implies yourself but also everyone else. It implies the neighbors whom my/your/our sins have hurt. That’s why I honestly don’t believe anybody deserves hatred in that sense. You are using a human standard, and a fallen human standard at that to determine who is deserving of hatred. You and I may have an impulse (wrong one) to hate somebody for their sin but that doesn’t make that impulse correct.
 
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I think she’s running way beyond what the saints’ points were, using narrow cherry picked passages.

Good luck here. She’s beat this one silly.
 
I never said anything against recognizing the truth. There is truth and there is exaggeration.
 
We are not to hate ourselves, but we are to hate our wills because they often veer away from God’s will.

I remember reading about St. Catherine of Siena, where her confessor wrote this of her visions,
The holy Virgin told her confessors, of who, though unworthy, I was one, that, at the beginning of her visions, when the Lord Jesus Christ first began to appear to her, he said, “Do you know, daughter, who you are, And who I am? If you know these two things, you will be blessed. You are she is not; whereas I am He who is. Have this knowledge in you and the enemy will never deceive you…“

[Blessed Raymond continues]: A succinct doctrine… Oh, Immeasurable wisdom, wrapped in a few brief syllables…”You,” said the Lord, “are she who is not.” Indeed, all creatures are made from nothing, for “to create” means to make something from nothing. When creatures are left to themselves they tend to return to nothing, and if the creator ceased for one moment to preserve them in existence, they would rapidly be reduced to nothing again. … The Apostle says, “…for if any man think himself to be something, whereas he is nothing, he deceives himself” (Galatians 6:3). … And Jesus says “For without me you can do nothing” (John 15:5).

And [Blessed Raymond continues] here is a healing remedy, for what wound of pride can enter into a soul that knows itself to be nothing? Who can glory in anything he does? And thus, all vices are driven out by the words, “You are not”.
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We shouldn’t hate ourselves, but put ourselves continually under God first, because it is True that everything we do is because of God, and second, because God is greater than us.
 
I made my username based off my middle name, which is Therese, named after St. Therese of Lisieux 🙂
 
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