So, did you see the new Star Wars movie yet?

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Ok, see it I just did.

Liked it a lot I did, but a knockoff of Episode 4 it seemed in part to be.

No descendant of Yoda was into the script written? Bummer that is.

BB8 super cool for the toy stores is.

ICXC NIKA.
 
Q: Why did Episodes 4, 5, and 6 precede 1, 2, and 3?

A: Because in charge of the sequence Yoda was!!!
 
No.

But I did get the Star Wars Battlefront video game for Christmas, and it is excellent i must say.
 
I liked parts of it, but had serious problems with the others.

I read the following in-depth review by John C. Wright, a well-known SF author who is also an unabashed fan of the first two films. (He explains why he is not a fan of the 3rd film, or any of the prequels, in the review.) Mr. Wright is also a very orthodox Catholic, so he is writing from that perspective as well as that of a science fiction fan and author. He put into words a lot of the things that were bothering me, including the use of what is known in fiction writing as a “Mary Sue” character in the form of Rey.

His review is well worth reading.

scifiwright.com/2015/12/the-force-awakens-and-hits-the-snooze-button/
Ehh I’m not going to say the movie was perfect by any means, but the Mary Sue complaint seems a bit unfair. Especially considering this is Star Wars we’re talking about.

Just having a few Mary Sue traits doesn’t actually make a character a Sue, otherwise pretty much any gifted protagonist in a fantasy setting would be one. A real Mary Sue has abilities that don’t make sense in context or appear random, don’t serve a plot purpose except to make her look good, are used in place of actual characterization, and she tends to overpower and sideline every other character due to her awesomeness. None of this really applies to Rey.

The movie says she’s strong in the Force, and it’s heavily implied she’s a Skywalker (she’s a good pilot, like Anakin and Luke, and the Skywalker light saber calls her) which both explain why she’s able to do what she does. Her abilities aren’t really random, no more than Luke’s are anyways. They also aren’t there to “wow” us or make us love her. They have an integral part in the story. (The Force Awakens? Who does it awaken in?) She also says herself she didn’t know she could do those things and got scared when she realized she had the Force. Mary Sues don’t do that. They know how amazing they are.

I think the biggest problem with the “Rey is a Mary Sue” argument though is the fact that Rey doesn’t actually save the day in the end. She was not the one who came up with the plan (she was captured) and she didn’t really have anything to with disabling the shield or blowing up the base. That was all Finn, Han and Poe’s work. She could have not been there and not much would have changed, (except Finn would probably be dead) which again isn’t something that would happen if Rey really was a Sue. A real Mary Sue would have come up with a brilliant plan that nobody thought of yet and then would have been the only one for the job. The other characters would be essentially useless.

Obviously the film isn’t perfect. But to me, the Mary Sue complaint just…doesn’t work. It’s kind of hard to say Rey’s one without saying the same thing about any other Star Wars protagonist. The same traits in Rey are present in Luke, (which again I’m betting were intentional) yet I’ve never seen anyone call him a Gary Stu. I suppose you could say that Rey doesn’t ever mess up or have a moment of doubt or struggle, (even though she kind of does after that vision) but neither did Luke either until Empire Strikes Back. The big growth for his character came in the sequel.

I still think it’s pretty neat that Star Wars finally has a female Jedi in the lead, and one that isn’t hyper-sexualized (like Leia in the bikini) or overly mopey and self-centered. (like Katniss) If I had little girls, I would be completely fine with them wanting to be like Rey just like boys do with Luke and Han.
 
I did. I regret it. It defecated on the story, the characters and the lore, so much that it’s hard to watch the older films now since they just lead up to this stool. The new villains are excrement.

Edit: c**p is censored, huh. I always thought it was a tame alternative to a certain four letter word myself.
 
As I mentioned I was going to do, I went for my second viewing last night, in IMAX 3D.

I enjoyed it much more than the first viewing.

And, I got the poster. 👍 Smaller than I expected, but still very cool.
 
I liked parts of it, but had serious problems with the others.

I read the following in-depth review by John C. Wright, a well-known SF author who is also an unabashed fan of the first two films. (He explains why he is not a fan of the 3rd film, or any of the prequels, in the review.) Mr. Wright is also a very orthodox Catholic, so he is writing from that perspective as well as that of a science fiction fan and author. He put into words a lot of the things that were bothering me, including the use of what is known in fiction writing as a “Mary Sue” character in the form of Rey.

His review is well worth reading.

scifiwright.com/2015/12/the-force-awakens-and-hits-the-snooze-button/
Thank you so much for sharing this link. I’ve been pouring over his blog for the past 2 days, and now I have a huge list of books to read.
 
I liked parts of it, but had serious problems with the others.

I read the following in-depth review by John C. Wright, a well-known SF author who is also an unabashed fan of the first two films. (He explains why he is not a fan of the 3rd film, or any of the prequels, in the review.) Mr. Wright is also a very orthodox Catholic, so he is writing from that perspective as well as that of a science fiction fan and author. He put into words a lot of the things that were bothering me, including the use of what is known in fiction writing as a “Mary Sue” character in the form of Rey.

His review is well worth reading.

scifiwright.com/2015/12/the-force-awakens-and-hits-the-snooze-button/
Thank you for the link.

It provided a lot of food for thought.
 
Now that I’ve read that review, I’m having second thoughts about wanting to see the new Star Wars.
 
While I don’t know that I would see it again, certainly not at full ticket; I did enjoy it very much and think most of the critical ripping on the film is undeserved.
 
Yes. You said what I wanted to say but with less venom.
While I don’t know that I would see it again, certainly not at full ticket; I did enjoy it very much and think most of the critical ripping on the film is undeserved.
What critical ripping? They’re gushing.
 
Kylie Ren may not fit the stereotype of a villain but there’s still time. He seems to have as his superpower an ironclad sense of entitlement. This sense of entitlement may lead to him growing into a more dangerous villain instead of the whiny teenage brat we now see.
 
But he couldn’t carry his first film. It’s like the Titanic’s maiden voyage.
 
What the people who are complaining about Kylo Ren not being a good villain are forgetting is that Darth Vader was not that great in A New Hope either.

Vader was in not a villain in the first film, only a flunky to Governor Tarkin. He wouldn’t even have one the light saber duel if Obiwan had not allowed himself to be killed.
 
What the people who are complaining about Kylo Ren not being a good villain are forgetting is that Darth Vader was not that great in A New Hope either.

Vader was in not a villain in the first film, only a flunky to Governor Tarkin. He wouldn’t even have one the light saber duel if Obiwan had not allowed himself to be killed.
It’s true Vader didn’t become the ruthless villain we all know until Empire, but he was still more intimidating and iconic in A New Hope than Kylo was in this one. The fact that Vader DIDN’T do much - but we knew he could if he really wanted to - made him interesting.

I’m still on the fence about Kylo myself. I didn’t feel like he was completely incompetent as a villain, but he could have been tougher. Then again, he wasn’t in the same place Vader was in A New Hope. He still hadn’t completely fallen, he was still struggling with “the light.” He wasn’t the new Vader, he was more of a Vader wannabe or poser. And he knew it.

I’m guessing in the next movie - now that he sealed his fall to the dark side by killing Han - he’ll be more formidable. I hope so anyways. As much as I liked Rey’s character, if he doesn’t defeat her next time they face off, I’ll be disappointed.
 
It’s true Vader didn’t become the ruthless villain we all know until Empire, but he was still more intimidating and iconic in A New Hope than Kylo was in this one. The fact that Vader DIDN’T do much - but we knew he could if he really wanted to - made him interesting.

I’m still on the fence about Kylo myself. I didn’t feel like he was completely incompetent as a villain, but he could have been tougher. Then again, he wasn’t in the same place Vader was in A New Hope. He still hadn’t completely fallen, he was still struggling with “the light.” He wasn’t the new Vader, he was more of a Vader wannabe or poser. And he knew it.

I’m guessing in the next movie - now that he sealed his fall to the dark side by killing Han - he’ll be more formidable. I hope so anyways. As much as I liked Rey’s character, if he doesn’t defeat her next time they face off, I’ll be disappointed.
Kylo Ren aspires to be as “great” as Vader was. He knows he isn’t. That’s kind of the point.
 
Kylo Ren aspires to be as “great” as Vader was. He knows he isn’t. That’s kind of the point.
Yep. I get what the writers are doing, and think they handled it well. I really did get the feeling like he was desperate and insecure. And in a way it is more interesting for me to see an evil character portrayed as complicated and a little pathetic, since that is how evil is.

But at the same time I can also see why some were disappointed in him. He was advertised as the trilogy’s Vader, and he’s just not.

Not really the movie’s fault. Just a matter of advertising elevating expectations.
 
One of the best written villains in Star Wars IMO. Not a mindless “kill everything and blow things up” kind of evil but a “use you - maybe even save you- to get to my ultimate goal” evil. Much more compelling.
 
I saw it today. It was…okay. My young adult kids liked it a lot, so I suppose the movie was made for their generation.

I see what previous posters have said about “Mary Sue.” I didn’t quite care for the character of Rey.
 
That’s basically my feeling. Not perfect, but still did its job and I enjoyed it.
I do find Rey something of a Mary Sue but I do think there may be reasons behind why she is that the movie is hinting at.
Yeah, for me it’s going to come down to what the next movie does with her. I liked her and wasn’t too bothered by her power because it seemed like it was explained by the Force, but they can’t leave her where she is. If they just continue to make her a “super awesome female Jedi” and don’t add more depth to her and give her a struggle, I’ll probably change my mind on her. But for now I don’t have a problem with her being strong and skilled. This is Star Wars, that kind of stuff is expected.
 
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