So disheartened. Feel like leaving Church.

[Catholic2008]

Of course theres a problem with it! its not the Catholic Church.

You seriously need to find out whats going on.

I suggest you make a start with the Most Holy Family Monastery Website
www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/

Most people will bash them, but I guess that just backs up the words of Our Lord that “few are saved” and that “even the elect will be deceived”

Benedict XVI is certainly deveiving many of those who think they are the elect. This certainlty points to the fact that ‘few are saved’

And why does Jesus state the rhetorical question, when the son of man returns, will he even find the faith on earth"

 

[robin_hood]

Hello Dempsey
I notice from your profile that you live in the UK as I do.The situation sadly in the Catholic Church in the UK is not very good and I also get down sometimes.
What I do to remedy the situation is to mix with good Orthodox Catholics which although in the UK is a minority is still there.
I notice you are still young so would suggest Youth 2000 who have there own website are based all over the UK and have various retreats all year and are LOYAL TO THE CHURCH:clapping:
Also try The National Association of Catholic Families which is situated in most Counties and a lot of the families have teenage children going through the same things as yourself.
My daughter aged 17 went on a retreat recently at Walsingham run by the Community of Saint John where they spent the week studying, going on trips,daily mass and every day structured around the Liturgy.She loved it as did all the young people attending and there is going to be another one sometime around Christmas.
I also met last year for the first time a young man who was baptised a Catholic but was never raised in the Faith.He came back aged 17 with a great love fot the Latin Mass but was saddened by what he found in the average UK parish. But he travelled around to attend as many Tridentine masses as he could and now aged 18 is in the seminary of The Institute of Christ the King.
So my message is to look around the UK loyal Catholics are out there and are ready to support you.

 

[thecoach]

You specifically accused me of rejecting the Apostolic Succession of the Orthodox Churches. If you want to make such a claim, back it up.

It isnt hard to follow, if you are calling the Orthodox church heretical, obviously you are calling all of it, including succession, into question. But tell you what, stick to your little cubby hole where shadow is more than substance. I know your ideas, though popular here, do not refelct the entire Catholic church, at least I hope not.

 

[thecoach]

Of course theres a problem with it! its not the Catholic Church.

You seriously need to find out whats going on.

I suggest you make a start with the Most Holy Family Monastery Website
www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/

Most people will bash them, but I guess that just backs up the words of Our Lord that “few are saved” and that “even the elect will be deceived”

Benedict XVI is certainly deveiving many of those who think they are the elect. This certainlty points to the fact that ‘few are saved’

And why does Jesus state the rhetorical question, when the son of man returns, will he even find the faith on earth"

geez, youre more off than the rest here. Tell me, just who is Pope, or is it vacant?

 

[Jenny_Z]

Don’t leave the church We need more folks like you…

Pray for our priests…

 

[Brendan]

I

I’ve just came back from my weekly meeting with the Priest and I feel very demoralised. I decided that I would ask the Priest about everything that troubled me about Catholicism. I don’t think it went well. I asked him about ecumenism and the need for other Christians to become Catholics. He said that the Catholic Church is not the Church of Christ per se, but that the Church of Christ subsists in it. He said that the Church of Christ is actually the large fellowship of all Christians, irregardless of denomination. He did say that the Catholic Church has the fullness of faith however.

The Vatican recently released a document that addresses such gross misconceptions.

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=52288

http://212.77.1.245/news_services/bulletin/news/20581.php?index=20581<=en#TESTO%20IN%20LINGUA%20INGLESE

He also said that the Roman Catholic Church had placed too much emphasis on the primacy of the Pope and that more needs to be done to accomodate the Orthodox.

Hogwash! The Church puts no more emphasis on the Primacy of the Pope than the Holy Spirit did in the various Councils. If I had to choose between the words of the Holy Spirt in Pastor Aeternus (Vatican I) or this priest, I know which one I would pick.

( and BTW, the SSPX will give you pretty much the same answer, they deny the power of the Pope to excomunicate their bishops)

 

[Caesar]

It isnt hard to follow, if you are calling the Orthodox church heretical, obviously you are calling all of it, including succession, into question. But tell you what, stick to your little cubby hole where shadow is more than substance. I know your ideas, though popular here, do not refelct the entire Catholic church, at least I hope not.

Oh, so you just assume that I deny the Orthodox have Apostolic Succession, and openly accuse me of it with no proof.

For your information, I do not deny such a thing. Heresy doesnt necessarily negate Apostolic Succession. The Arians still had Apostolic Succession, even the Anglicans had Apostolic Succession until the Rites of Priestly Ordination were changed in the Edwardian Reforms.

 

[jedi]

Orthodox are NOT heretics, and you should be ashamed for saying it.

Oh no… sorry thecoach and everybody. Sorry. I didn’t mean to say that at all.
I rewrite again…
~ Orthodox, sspx are NOT heretics.

Yesus know my hearts………….

To mr. thecoach, TQ for informing me….
Benedicite Deus…

 

[TuEsPetrus]

Back in the mid-seventies, a while before I had my first experience of Church, I used to get into some really fantastic discussions with the Roman Catholic Fathers in the Navy and while working for the Hospitals. The thing I liked about them, was they were really open minded and never gave me the impression that they thought that being a Catholic was an exclusive club. In fact they readily agreed that Buddhists, and Moslem, and Jews all were ‘children of God’, (I am not sure about that now) and that they had not objections to people of any faith coming to the services. I guess the times have changed.

Personally, I think you will discover that belonging to any demonimation does not mean that you are a person of authentic faith. Your priest is right on target. A Christian does not become a Catholic, it is a Catholic who becomes a Christian, and that is not something that is determined by membership, but instead by birth into the family of GOD. Not everything is as it seems.

Love,
Pophead.

Nope I disagree whole heartedly, and here is the reason. MANY MANY of the Doctors of the Church said that heaven is only an exclusive club. Even the most faithful Catholic will not enter it. So what makes you think that a Buddhist who does nto even worship a God can save himself if a Catholic who has it right will?
St. John Chrysostom (Doctor of the Church) said that out of 100,000 (back then they were all loyal to the church) faithful 100 will be saved and he said even out of those 100 he is doubtful. There are other Saints who were just as great who had even worse statistics for their time, imagine now? But St. Peter tells us not to worry about how many get saved or nto get saved, worry about being the little crowd that does get saved.
I tell you this sincerely in a good admonishing way. My Christ be with you all.

 

[latin_rite]

I came home to the Church about a month ago and I attend an indult Latin Mass.

I was very excited about meeting with my priest every week but now I wish I didn’t bother.

It seems that every Catholic I meet is a liberal who is against the Church’s moral teachings.

I feel like leaving the Church…everyone seems so hypocritical…even the Priests. I don’t know what to do. The SSPX is looking more and more appealing. I’m feel very upset at the moment .

Don’t leave. The Church needs people like you who wants to abide by its moral teachings. Don’t let the liberals get in the way between you and God. And i think you’re right The reason or one of the main reasons SSPX excists is because of the liberals. reading your post it seems you are or want to take the Church laws very seriously. And like i said The Church needs more people like you more than ever.

 

[St_Gabriel]

Only Jesus is perfect. He gave us one Church. Look past the faults of its members and follow Him.

 

[richardwy]

everyone seems so hypocritical

The only remedy I’ve found for that mire is Truth. Sometimes, I’m just like the elder brother in the parable.

I’ve been reading a good bit about the Reformation. The Church today is so much better off then those awful centuries 1300 - 1500

We’ve got a great Pope!

And hypocrites abound. I’m one of them from time to time. If it were not for the mercy of God, I’d be lost.

Vintage Spritual Classics has a very nice work on St. Thomas More. A must read. Sounds perfect for you. Maybe a Saint for you too.

 

[Rosella]

I feel the same way, and I’m a cradle Catholic. I’ve watched the bishops and heretical priests take over our doctrine, misinform people, destroy beautiful churches to build something that glorifies their own egos…but the tide is turning. First, Pope Benedict is aware of these problems and without creating a huge fuss, doing many small things to correct the errors. Over the past few years, he has made many significant curial appts and other changes, and his talks to bishops stress over and over the need for orthodoxy. Two, Summorum Pontificum: it may take some time, but the days are waning when orthodox Catholics are made to feel like freaks just for believing in the Magisterium or wanting to kneel for Communion. The Motu Proprio is going to have a long-range effect of stabilizing the extreme elements. Three, subscribe to the Wanderer, it tells the truth of what’s happening but also offers hope. Four, if possible, move to an orthodox college or town. The bad bishops outnumber the good right now, but there are some excellent moral leaders (Burke, Bruskewitz, Baker, etc). The small, liberal arts Catholic colleges, not the famous ones like Notre Dame, are where the devout Catholics go. Avoid Jesuits at all costs, unless one of the few Catholic ones like Fr. Ken Baker, Fr. Pacwa, etc. The truth is there, the Chruch you love exists, but it’s currently hidden under the dust of a few decades of a misguided “spirit” of Vatican 2. The dust is clearing, hold fast, try to find like-minded Catholics, even if only online, to bolster your faith.

 

[JudyLH]

I’m starting to think that there are no faithful Catholics left. Everyone I meet seems so hypocritical. I’m gutted because I really believe what the Church teaches, but it seems that the church is infested with dissenters who look down on orthodox catholic teaching. I wish I met Catholics like the ones on this forum.

I think you are very right, but I’m not sure it’s a matter of hypocrisy. Many Catholics have embraced cultural teachings and do not understand why the Church even teaches certain things. They think that the Church is outdated and out of touch with the realities of living. On the issue of contraception, they shrug and say, “It’s just not practical to live that way nowadays, and surely God understands.” They also do this on many other issues, such as abortion, premarital sex, divorce, and even the necessity of attending church every week.

I, too, am a Catholic who reverted. I have not yet been able to fully come to terms with everything the Church teaches, but I have graduated from being skeptical to being respectful, even if I don’t understand. I’m teaching catechism, which is an excellent learning experience, and I will never teach anything other than what the Church teaches. I do not believe that I have to be able to fully embrace every last jot and tittle taught by the Church. I am able to leave some things in God’s hands and trust that eventually He will open my eyes so that I fully understand.

What I have noticed is that people who either convert to Catholicism, or who leave and then return, inevitably end up having a much deeper and more complete knowledge of Church teachings than the average Catholic. The questions that have been raised by being outside the Church must be answered before we can embrace the Church. So we have an advantage over the average Catholic. And maybe God’s intention is to use our deeper understanding to educate those who just never give these things much thought.

Have you considered the possibility that God might call you to be a Catholic apologist? I hope your studies have led you to a careful perusal of the Catechism itself, which will probably be better at answering your questions than any priest, no matter how well intentioned.

It is important to remember that what matters is the spirit, not the letter. Legalism destroys the spirit. Tradition is good, but not an end in itself. You should never cling to tradition so tightly that you miss the bigger picture, which is that our job, first and foremost, is to love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and then to love others as He loves us. Don’t let questions of morality or language get in the way of those vast, eternal truths. If you abide by the letter of the law and forget to love, then you are as Paul described in 1 Cor. 13: as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal.

Things changed a lot with Vatican II. These changes were prayed over by godly men seeking to know God’s will. We trust the Holy Spirit to lead and guide such men in their pronouncements. We should not be too quick to dismiss what they say and assume that we know better. If we do that, we are basically doing what cafeteria Catholics do and assuming that our own judgment is better than that of the Church.

I hope none of this sounds too harsh or abrupt. I feel for you, but I believe God may have a unique place for you within the Church, so I hope you won’t be too quick to walk away without seeking a bigger picture. What does God want you to do? Ultimately this is His decision, not yours.

Judy

 

[orgel_maestro]

I came home to the Church about a month ago and I attend an indult Latin Mass.

I fully believe in everything that the Church teaches…but I feel like leaving the Church. I’m so disheartened. Here’s the story:

Like I said, I’m a recent revert and I have been meeting with my parish priest for the last two weeks because I want to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. I have spent about 4 years reading and learning about the faith; I wanted to make sure that I believe in EVERYTHING the Church teaches. I would never enter the Church and become a ‘cafeteria Catholic’. As a result of this study, I now have a pretty thorough understanding of doctrine and belief etc.

I was very excited about meeting with my priest every week but now I wish I didn’t bother.

It seems that every Catholic I meet is a liberal who is against the Church’s moral teachings. I recently started University and I visited the Catholic Chaplaincy. The Priest was great but the place seems very liberal, for example, the room where they say Mass has a gay pride flag pinned to the wall. One of the chaplains is an ex-nun (which seems strange). They also let non-Catholics worship there/use the facilities eg. chapel etc.

I’ve just came back from my weekly meeting with the Priest and I feel very demoralised. I decided that I would ask the Priest about everything that troubled me about Catholicism. I don’t think it went well. I asked him about ecumenism and the need for other Christians to become Catholics. He said that the Catholic Church is not the Church of Christ per se, but that the Church of Christ subsists in it. He said that the Church of Christ is actually the large fellowship of all Christians, irregardless of denomination. He did say that the Catholic Church has the fullness of faith however. He also said that the Roman Catholic Church had placed too much emphasis on the primacy of the Pope and that more needs to be done to accomodate the Orthodox.

I asked him whether he believed in contraception and he didn’t give me an answer. He told me that most Catholics in this country do not have a problem with contraception and that it is not an infallable teaching. I told him that I was against contraception and he looked less than impressed. I told him that I could not in good conscience ever use a condom and he said that while this is ‘proper’ most Catholics disagree.

I told him that I will keep attending the Latin Mass and that I hope other younger people will attend. He didn’t greet that comment with enthusiasm either.

At the end of the meeting, he asked me whether I would like to keep seeing him. I told him that I still wanted to be confirmed but he seemed less enthusiastic than he was last week.

I’m starting to think that there are no faithful Catholics left. Everyone I meet seems so hypocritical. I’m gutted because I really believe what the Church teaches, but it seems that the church is infested with dissenters who look down on orthodox catholic teaching. I wish I met Catholics like the ones on this forum.

I feel like leaving the Church…everyone seems so hypocritical…even the Priests. I don’t know what to do. The SSPX is looking more and more appealing. I’m feel very upset at the moment .

I hate to say it, but that priest was right about Christ’s Church. It’s the whole christian community, but Christ’s church subsists in the RCC. We have the fullness of the truth. I forgot where I heard this from, probably someone from this forum. Its like, the Catholics have the whole map to Heaven, so to speak, while the protestants have only parts of it, some more some less.

There liberal catholics and more conservative ones, just need to find the right parish. Going the SSPX is not being very catholic at all, we’re not supposed to go their masses, although it is valid. But i know how you feel, I’m in college too and um I attend one of the most liberal colleges in the United States - Berkeley, you know free love, flower power, hippies and pot. …yup that Berkeley. But, whatever, the Newman center here is a little liberal, so I dont go for mass there, only for retreats and socializing. I go to another parish which is more conservative. Look for a different parish? Please dont feel discouraged. I think the priest you talked to, just didnt want to step on people’s toes. That’s how the college chaplains here are, they try to remain as neutral regarding the more controversial issues.

 

[sphilomena]

Dempsey, you have gotten much advice here and some of it is good. (Someone previously correctly pointed out that some advice you got here was indifferentism. One poster here was attacking the Catholic Church elsewhere on the forum. Be cautious!) There is great treasure in the 2000 year history of our Church, and reading some of it may help you. Read documents by Pius X, Pope Pius XII, and others. Our present Pope has written brilliant books also, available through Ignatius Press. Check out the EWTN website and all the documents available in the library there.

You are correct; use the discernment the Holy Spirit has given you. I call it my antenna: sometimes you know something seems wrong. It may be useful to remember that we are undoubtedly in the time of St. John Bosco’s vision about the ship in the battle. I hope you will look that up. JPII and BXVI appear to be anchoring the ship to the two columns of the Eucharist and the Blessed Mother. Stay close to both of them and you will be strong. Don’t give up; God uses our suffering, I know!

 

[TuEsPetrus]

There liberal catholics and more conservative ones, just need to find the right parish. Going the SSPX is not being very catholic at all, we’re not supposed to go their masses, although it is valid. But i know how you feel, I’m in college too and um I attend one of the most liberal colleges in the United States - Berkeley, you know free love, flower power, hippies and pot. …yup that Berkeley. But, whatever, the Newman center here is a little liberal, so I dont go for mass there, only for retreats and socializing. I go to another** parish which is more conservative. **Look for a different parish? Please dont feel discouraged. I think the priest you talked to, just didnt want to step on people’s toes. That’s how the college chaplains here are, they try to remain as neutral regarding the more controversial issues.

Ok you prefer to go where you know for sure is heresy, rather than humble yourself to a SSPX mass. That is besides the point, you go around lurking so badly looking for something good but when you have a good mass (SSPX mass) you refuse it. Just come to shows your pride blinds you. Instead of worshiping God you just try to look for something that seems nice. A true traditionalist remains faitful to the Pope and to the liturgy of the mass. It’s funny how people prefer to go Orthodox and super liberals rather then just attend a SSPX mass, I say to you your a hypocrite. A Catholic cannot serve two master, the world and the Church. A Catholic serves God only and loves his neighbor for the Love of God, that is the way of Perfection your ultimate end in life. The letter killeth the spirit, that is why tradition is beatiful when truly keeps the spirit even more alive. If you are lucky enough to have a TLM mass near you whether indult or SSPX , take that as a blessing and thank the Almighty for that grace many have never had.

 

[thecoach]

Oh, so you just assume that I deny the Orthodox have Apostolic Succession, and openly accuse me of it with no proof.

For your information, I do not deny such a thing. Heresy doesnt necessarily negate Apostolic Succession. The Arians still had Apostolic Succession, even the Anglicans had Apostolic Succession until the Rites of Priestly Ordination were changed in the Edwardian Reforms.

So if the succession is valid, then: 1) How can the Orthodox be heretics? 2) How can the RCC only be the true church? Heresy ABSOLUTELY negates succession and everythting else if you accuse an entire faith of being heretical. Stop the semantics and try logic.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

So if the succession is valid, then: 1) How can the Orthodox be heretics? 2) How can the RCC only be the true church? Heresy ABSOLUTELY negates succession and everythting else if you accuse an entire faith of being heretical. Stop the semantics and try logic.

Coach,

Apostolic succession and heresy are two completely different things. All that is required for apostolic succession is for a validly ordained Bishop to ordain someone. As long as the one ordaining is a true Bishop, the one he ordains will become a Bishop, which is what apostolic succession is.

Heresy takes place when a person denies a dogma of the faith. It doesn’t matter if they are a lay person, a priest or a Bishop. If they deny a dogma of the faith, they become heretics.

A heretical Bishop (a Bishop who denies a dogma of the faith) can ordain another person to the office of Bishop. All that is required for apostolic succession to continue is for the ordination to take place.

For example, the Orthodox are heretics because they deny dogmas of the faith. They deny Papal Infallibility, the Primacy of the Pope, and more. This makes them heretics, yet their apostolic succession continues.

Heresy in no way hinders apostolic succession.

 

[thecoach]

Coach,

Apostolic succession and heresy are two completely different things. All that is required for apostolic succession is for a validly ordained Bishop to ordain someone. As long as the one ordaining is a true Bishop, the one he ordains will become a Bishop, which is what apostolic succession is.

Heresy takes place when a person denies a dogma of the faith. It doesn’t matter if they are a lay person, a priest or a Bishop. If they deny a dogma of the faith, they become heretics.

A heretical Bishop (a Bishop who denies a dogma of the faith) can ordain another person to the office of Bishop. All that is required for apostolic succession to continue is for the ordination to take place.

For example, the Orthodox are heretics because they deny dogmas of the faith. They deny Papal Infallibility, the Primacy of the Pope, and more. This makes them heretics, yet their apostolic succession continues.

Heresy in no way hinders apostolic succession.

sorry, but no. For example, once SSPX were considered heretics and thus excommuncated, the ordinations were not valid. If the Orthodox church is in a state of heresy, then they can not have valid ordinations, thus the succession is broken. By the way, there are many rich fruits of spirituality in the orthodox church, to call then heretics because of papal power struggles in against all reason.

To be honest, I was struggling with Catholicism for some time, and the more I read here, the more I think I should distance myself from it.