"So, faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead." (James 2:18)

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"So, faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead."
(James 2:18)

This is one of the verses that troubled Marin Luther and still troubles all those who hold Protestant, non-Catholic beliefs. Please read James 2:14-26, before posting.

Your Thoughts.
 
May I suggest you look into what is actually meant by ’ justification by faith alone’, which you seem to misunderstand.
 
"So, faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead."
(James 2:18)

This is one of the verses that troubled Marin Luther and still troubles all those who hold Protestant, non-Catholic beliefs. Please read James 2:14-26, before posting.

Your Thoughts.
I very much doubt that this troubles “all those who hold Protestant, non-Catholic beliefs”. Anyway, what are you looking for here?
 
It actually does. There are controversies over it to this day, with two main approaches to resolving the “faith-works” problem in Protestantism: the much-more-believable “Lordship Salvation” (from which the controversy took its name: leading exponent, John MacArthur), which states that one must accept Jesus as Lord and Savior (read “Lord” as “master of thy life”), and that some control over sin is an indication that a man is justified. One could call this the “faith works” position.

The second position, which is based almost solely on a chapter or two of Paul, is called “Free Grace” (main proponents: Ryrie and Zane Hodges), which states that a man is justified as soon as he “confesseth with his lips”, in essence, and can sin his way straight in to heaven, and that it is a second choice to “undergo the process of sanctification”. One could call this the “draweth near to me with thy lips” position, or the “faith doesn’t need to work” position.

The second choice is popular amongst many evangelicals, and is quite completely contradictory to the words of Holy Writ penned by the Holy Spirit through James. The first choice, popular in Reformed circles, is completely consonant with James’ statement (a faith without works [without Jesus as Lord {=master of my life}] is literally dead, that is, it is not saving faith at all), and is more consonant with the Catholic position (that justification and sanctification are not artificially separated, but are one organic continuum or whole, and that any man who is justified will be at least, in the tiniest bit, sanctified, or he has not accepted Jesus as Lord =master of his life], and is not saved =justified] at all). It also provides a nice hedge for “perseverance of the saints”.

There are a couple other doctrines out there (in Protestantism), but those are the two common positions in Evangelicalism and amongst Reformed. The latter, IME, is more popular than the former, and, as I have said, and the OP noticed, is in direct contradiction to God-breathed words of Holy Writ.
 
May I suggest you look into what is actually meant by ’ justification by faith alone’, which you seem to misunderstand.
Meh…I get what the OP is getting at and I get what you are getting at as well. There are definitions and meanings to be agreed upon first before it can be debated. So, you might do him the honor of explaining what it means (“justification by faith alone”).

At any rate, any time I see the words " by faith alone" used together, I think it’s rather unBiblical unless it is preceded, just as it is in Scripture, with “not”. “…See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24)
 
May I suggest you look into what is actually meant by ’ justification by faith alone’, which you seem to misunderstand.
Perhaps you could make use of the post to elucidate…otherwise, you just come off as rather glib, and I mean no disrespect. What you could have said, in terms of an answer, might have helped…🙂
 
"So, faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead."
(James 2:18)

This is one of the verses that troubled Marin Luther and still troubles all those who hold Protestant, non-Catholic beliefs. Please read James 2:14-26, before posting.

Your Thoughts.
One thing I think is important is that Catholics have an understanding of “justification” that we are all fallen, that it is only by faith through grace that we are saved. We disagree with some Protestants on how that faith is to be enacted, and with some Protestants who hold to the “once saved, always saved” beliefs.

The Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by the Lutheran World Federation and Roman Catholic Church is a good read.

With regard to Catholic vs. Lutheran teachings on works:
*"37.We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - follow justification and are its fruits. When the justified live in Christ and act in the grace they receive, they bring forth, in biblical terms, good fruit. Since Christians struggle against sin their entire lives, this consequence of justification is also for them an obligation they must fulfill. Thus both Jesus and the apostolic Scriptures admonish Christians to bring forth the works of love.

38.According to Catholic understanding, good works, made possible by grace and the working of the Holy Spirit, contribute to growth in grace, so that the righteousness that comes from God is preserved and communion with Christ is deepened. When Catholics affirm the “meritorious” character of good works, they wish to say that, according to the biblical witness, a reward in heaven is promised to these works. Their intention is to emphasize the responsibility of persons for their actions, not to contest the character of those works as gifts, or far less to deny that justification always remains the unmerited gift of grace.

39.The concept of a preservation of grace and a growth in grace and faith is also held by Lutherans. They do emphasize that righteousness as acceptance by God and sharing in the righteousness of Christ is always complete. At the same time, they state that there can be growth in its effects in Christian living. When they view the good works of Christians as the fruits and signs of justification and not as one’s own “merits”, they nevertheless also understand eternal life in accord with the New Testament as unmerited “reward” in the sense of the fulfillment of God’s promise to the believer. [See Sources for section 4.7]. *"

I would also recommend looking at 1 Corinthians 13 in its entirety.

I think it’s important to also stress that justification in scripture is not just about individual salvation. Far from it. Christ established his Kingdom over. As members of the Body of Christ, reborn through baptism, we are called to live in the Kingdom in Gospel, the epistles, and Revelation. Christ is the fulfillment of the Shekhinah, the Hebrew indwelling of God in the Tabernacle and Temple. Luke 1:33 tells us that the kingdom of Jesus will have no end. Paul tells us the Jesus is Lord. Colossians 2:10 says “you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power.” And it is only through the Resurrection on the Last Day that we are given eternal life, as Revelation ends with the New Jerusalem descending and God living among his people. All these things tell us that living in the Kingdom of God is not just about saving our own souls, but about transforming “new creation” on earth and reuniting wholly and truly with our God – the Shekhinah uniting Heaven and Earth.

The Rapture is a misreading of 1 Thessalonians 4, mistaking the parousia (Second Coming of Christ) as an exit from the world. Instead, parousia is the term of an emperor’s visiting a city, whose people go out to greet him as he enters. This is critical. Salvation is NOT about leaving the planet Earth.

Our “hope of salvation” is in the concrete, physical resurrection on the Last Day. It is in our reborn glorified bodies that our new life is to be lived. So it is only through baptism that we are given membership in the Body of Christ, and it is there that we live it (1 Corinthians 12).
 
Perhaps you could make use of the post to elucidate…otherwise, you just come off as rather glib, and I mean no disrespect. What you could have said, in terms of an answer, might have helped…🙂
Even as a Catholic, I can say in good conscience (and do say) that were are justified by grace alone, through faith alone (sola gratia, sola fide). I even adhere to solus Christus (only Christ can save) and, understood differently, soli Deo gloria (I know the Latin is wrong, but it’s traditional: “glory to God alone”, meant by the Reformers to give no honor to saints, interpreted by my to mean latreia to God alone).

My understanding of “grace alone” is in all essential areas the same as any traditional Calvinist (the only difference being I accept, as is necessary, the distinction between the antecedent and consequent wills of God, and therefore do not believe in “double predestination” of any sort), and my understanding of “faith alone” is similar to the “Lordship” people - that saving faith necessarily entails sanctification, but we can not receive grace “freely” by confessing Jesus or believing on him for a moment and then carrying on: for Jesus saith to the woman caught in adultery, “Go now and sin no more”, and John preacheth, “Repent [turn away from sin] and be baptized, for the Kingdom of God is at hand”.

The sacraments don’t save us =justify us] in any way, nor do any other works that occur after our initial justification (except for baptism, viz. baptismal regeneration, which is when we are first justified, which is the Catholic counterpart to the “choose Jesus moment” for a free-grace Protestant), but they help us and are the Christ-certified, divinely-approved channels of actual graces to grow in holiness =sanctification]: they are means of sanctification, not justification. (It’s debatable whether Penance is justifying, but the sacrament is not inherently necessary, as perfect contrition will itself cause God to forgive sins before the Sacrament has been performed; but it is justifying to those who are imperfectly contrite).

Note that I am a strong Thomist (Bañezian)-monergist on the issue of Grace, and that there are other less “crypto-Calvinistic” positions that can be held by Catholics in good faith and orthodoxy, such a Molinism (the “middle knowledge” of God, equivalent to Arminianism, if we’re doing analogies), and Congruism (a Molinism modified to make all prevenient grace sufficient, a “Reformed Arminianism”).

This strong Thomist-Bañezianism colors my response and makes me closer to traditional Protestants, especially Reformed, on many issues than many Catholics (and even modern Protestants) are (several famous modern Protestants such as William Lane Craig, and, I believe, Alvin Plantinga, are Molinists, and thus are less predestinarian than myself: predestinarianism, grace, justification, and sanctification are all tied together in a Gordian knot).

One could say that Calvin got most of everything right, except he undercut his own foundation by failing to differentiate between the antecedent and consequent wills of God, thereby making God the author of sin (and logically leading to the Perseverance of the Saints, which was warped by Free Gracers in to “Once Saved, Always Saved”), and building his house on a foundation of sand, whereas Thomas, rightly dividing the Word of Truth (and the will of God), built his system upon solid rock.

Insofar as perseverance of the Saints, it is true for Catholics - Molinist and Thomist - as well as it is for Reformed. Those who are elect, and were elected before the beginning of time, will persevere in the faith unto Heaven. And those who are not elect will not. But sanctification accompanies it, and we can not claim to know if we are of the elect: such is the sin of presumption in the highest degree (Reformed believe one can have the assurance of salvation, and that’s the main point of departure between them and Catholics on that point). “Once saved always saved” is a further perversion and mockery of the catholic (lower-case “c”: “universal”) doctrine, espoused by Augustine, of perseverance of the elect, which states that as soon as one confesseth the name Jesus, one is saved, and, even if not sanctified in the least, will be saved, and can never lose his justification: it removes justification to a single-instant occurrence, artificially severs it from the spectrum of sanctification, and makes justification the result of what is in essence a Magical Incantation (and makes the Holy Name of Jesus a magical word), instead of a turning away from sin (Gk metanoia, “change of nous”).

For an excellent (possibly the most excellent in print) explanation of the Thomist-Bañezian position on Grace, read Predestination by Reginald-Garrigou Langrange, OP.
 
"So, faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead."
(James 2:18)

This is one of the verses that troubled Marin Luther and still troubles all those who hold Protestant, non-Catholic beliefs. Please read James 2:14-26, before posting.

Your Thoughts.
I am new to the forum. Nice to “meet” you, Jimmy.

I think it would be an extreme stretch to say that this particular section in James “troubles” Protestants in any sense. Since Calvin, Protestants have written volume after volume of commentary on this text. It seems to me, within Roman Catholic apologetics circles, that this passage is used as a “gotcha” text in order to deflect from exegesis of more relevant passages in Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, and elsewhere. The fact of the matter, however, is that such attempts falter at the outset because the premise of the Catholic objection does not bear itself out exegetically. For here, unlike, say, Romans, the passage is simply not addressing how a man is made right before God. Once that is seen, the rest of the objections to sola fide based in James are rendered invalid.

As for myself, I would simply demur to even pre-Reformation commentaries on this subject, such as Augustine’s, to put forward the fact that James is addressing right living for the Christian in light of Jesus’ New Covenant commands in contrast with those who simply profess faith with their mouths.

Blessings
 
I agree - the question has to do with those Protestants who take it to the opposite extreme (free grace soteriology), and have a soteriology that is in all respects indistinguishable from “to be saved, confess Jesus with thy mouth”, which is integrally connected to and enabled by the understanding of justification as imputation (instead of infusion) of righteousness, severing “justification” and “sanctification”, as I wrote at length above. Imputed righteousness does not logically demand free-grace soteriology (as Calvin, Arminius, Luther, Melachthon, Grotius, Spurgeon, Warfield, Charles Hodge [not to be confused with Hodges], and [virtually?] every pre-20th c. Protestant theologian understood), but it lends itself to it quite easily.

The passage doesn’t work as a proof-text against more nuanced understandings, such as traditional Reformed, Arminian, or the newer Lordship soteriologies. It does work quite well against free-grace, no-sanctification-required, justified-by-incantation forms of theologically-unsophisticated once-saved, always-saved soteriologies.
 
I agree - the question has to do with those Protestants who take it to the opposite extreme (free grace soteriology), and have a soteriology that is in all respects indistinguishable from “to be saved, confess Jesus with thy mouth”.

The passage doesn’t work as a proof-text against more nuanced understandings, such as traditional Reformed, Arminian, or the newer Lordship soteriologies.
I would tend to agree, Khalid. I think that certain communions are afraid that if James is taken seriously, it will undermine their position on sola fide. I have found this to be true of much of the Lutheran commentary in this area (though certainly not true in every case). I am quite confident this is why Martin Luther had such angst over it. Oddly enough, such concerns make the same mistake as some Catholics by assuming, wrongly, that James here is laying out a full orbed doctrine of justification.
 
It actually does. There are controversies over it to this day, with two main approaches to resolving the “faith-works” problem in Protestantism: the much-more-believable “Lordship Salvation” (from which the controversy took its name: leading exponent, John MacArthur), which states that one must accept Jesus as Lord and Savior (read “Lord” as “master of thy life”), and that some control over sin is an indication that a man is justified. One could call this the “faith works” position.

The second position, which is based almost solely on a chapter or two of Paul, is called “Free Grace” (main proponents: Ryrie and Zane Hodges), which states that a man is justified as soon as he “confesseth with his lips”, in essence, and can sin his way straight in to heaven, and that it is a second choice to “undergo the process of sanctification”. One could call this the “draweth near to me with thy lips” position, or the “faith doesn’t need to work” position.

The second choice is popular amongst many evangelicals, and is quite completely contradictory to the words of Holy Writ penned by the Holy Spirit through James. The first choice, popular in Reformed circles, is completely consonant with James’ statement (a faith without works [without Jesus as Lord {=master of my life}] is literally dead, that is, it is not saving faith at all), and is more consonant with the Catholic position (that justification and sanctification are not artificially separated, but are one organic continuum or whole, and that any man who is justified will be at least, in the tiniest bit, sanctified, or he has not accepted Jesus as Lord =master of his life], and is not saved =justified] at all). It also provides a nice hedge for “perseverance of the saints”.

There are a couple other doctrines out there (in Protestantism), but those are the two common positions in Evangelicalism and amongst Reformed. The latter, IME, is more popular than the former, and, as I have said, and the OP noticed, is in direct contradiction to God-breathed words of Holy Writ.
Interesting analysis. In my experience, it seems that people influenced by Reformed theology (evangelicals or not) tend to be much more prone to a cheap grace mentality since God is ultimately viewed as pre-ordaining some for election and others for damnation. In this thought, we are saved because God has chosen us, and there really isn’t anything that we can do on our end to change that.
 
"So, faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead."
(James 2:18)

This is one of the verses that troubled Marin Luther and still troubles all those who hold Protestant, non-Catholic beliefs. Please read James 2:14-26, before posting.

Your Thoughts.
In a more detailed way, this is how I have tried to understand and apply what James is saying here to my own life. I will do so by using James’ very own subject - Abraham.

First we have to ask what faith is in a biblical sense. The gospel of Jesus Christ is, ultimately, a promise. It is a promise from God that our sins, in full, have been borne on the cross by the Son of God and the debt for our transgressions has been satisfied. The basis of our justification - our reconciliation to God - is not faith. The sole grounds of our innocence is the merits of Christ alone (solus Christus). Faith is the gift whereby we believe that promise from God, place all of our trust in it for our hope, both for this life and the next. As a sinner, I know that I am unable to live the life that the law of God demands, and so I trust that God’s promise that Christ lived it for me is true.

God made a similar, though veiled, promise to Abraham. He promised Abraham that he would be a great nation. That through his offspring, all nations would blessed. This ultimately would be Christ, Abraham’s greater offspring. In an immediate sense, though, it meant Isaac. “Through Isaac your offspring will be named.” Abraham believed this promise from God. How do we know that Abraham believed this promise? Had faith in this promise? Because God ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son. How did Abraham demonstrate his faith in the promise? By obeying God’s command. Abraham knew, and had faith in, the fact that some how, sone way, God would still be faithful to His unconditional covenant to make Isaac his heir. How do we know this? The writer to the Hebrews tells us: “By faith, Abraham offered up Isaac…He considered that God was even able to raise him back from the dead.” (Heb. 11:17, 19).

This is what James is zeroing in on. Abraham completed, showed, etc. his faith in God’s promises by being obedient, knowing that no matter what, God would be true to His word.

For us as Christians, we show our trust, our faith, by obeying the Lord who bought us. It is how the Spirit works in us to show that we are sons of Abraham…that no matter the cost to us, we hope for a city whose architect is God. Those who do not obey show that their trust is void of reality and is simply an empty profession.
Hope that helps.
 
Interesting analysis. In my experience, it seems that people influenced by Reformed theology (evangelicals or not) tend to be much more prone to a cheap grace mentality since God is ultimately viewed as pre-ordaining some for election and others for damnation. In this thought, we are saved because God has chosen us, and there really isn’t anything that we can do on our end to change that.
Perhaps Itwin. That would, however, belay a grave misunderstanding of Reformed teaching. Truth be told, though, I’ve yet to meet a single Christian that actually belives this. Anecdotal, I know…but relevant.
 
👍
It actually does. There are controversies over it to this day, with two main approaches to resolving the “faith-works” problem in Protestantism: the much-more-believable “Lordship Salvation” (from which the controversy took its name: leading exponent, John MacArthur), which states that one must accept Jesus as Lord and Savior (read “Lord” as “master of thy life”), and that some control over sin is an indication that a man is justified. One could call this the “faith works” position.

The second position, which is based almost solely on a chapter or two of Paul, is called “Free Grace” (main proponents: Ryrie and Zane Hodges), which states that a man is justified as soon as he “confesseth with his lips”, in essence, and can sin his way straight in to heaven, and that it is a second choice to “undergo the process of sanctification”. One could call this the “draweth near to me with thy lips” position, or the “faith doesn’t need to work” position.

The second choice is popular amongst many evangelicals, and is quite completely contradictory to the words of Holy Writ penned by the Holy Spirit through James. The first choice, popular in Reformed circles, is completely consonant with James’ statement (a faith without works [without Jesus as Lord {=master of my life}] is literally dead, that is, it is not saving faith at all), and is more consonant with the Catholic position (that justification and sanctification are not artificially separated, but are one organic continuum or whole, and that any man who is justified will be at least, in the tiniest bit, sanctified, or he has not accepted Jesus as Lord =master of his life], and is not saved =justified] at all). It also provides a nice hedge for “perseverance of the saints”.

There are a couple other doctrines out there (in Protestantism), but those are the two common positions in Evangelicalism and amongst Reformed. The latter, IME, is more popular than the former, and, as I have said, and the OP noticed, is in direct contradiction to God-breathed words of Holy Writ.
👍
 
Meh…I get what the OP is getting at and I get what you are getting at as well. There are definitions and meanings to be agreed upon first before it can be debated. So, you might do him the honor of explaining what it means (“justification by faith alone”).

At any rate, any time I see the words " by faith alone" used together, I think it’s rather unBiblical unless it is preceded, just as it is in Scripture, with “not”. “…See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24)
“So, you might do him the honor of explaining what it means (“justification by faith alone”).”

**Already seen it… know what it is and in my opinion, all it is, is semantics and some gobbely -gooke that sort of sounds Catholic. **
 
Meh…I get what the OP is getting at and I get what you are getting at as well. There are definitions and meanings to be agreed upon first before it can be debated. So, you might do him the honor of explaining what it means (“justification by faith alone”).

At any rate, any time I see the words " by faith alone" used together, I think it’s rather unBiblical unless it is preceded, just as it is in Scripture, with “not”. “…See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24)
Thank you for your post, good points!

Catholic’s have a “justification” doctrine here. However, they are different. One is biblically and traditionally correct, the Catholic version and one is not, the Protestant version. I’ve been doing this since 92’, so this ain’t my first rodeo. I’ve researched this a long time ago and have plenty of historical resources to back my position… which is the Catholic position, or the Catholic Church’s position… who have been at this for a couple thousands of years.

Thank you for posting this brother, it gave me an opportunity to give a Catholic response to a Protestant concern.
 
One thing I think is important is that Catholics have an understanding of “justification” that we are all fallen, that it is only by faith through grace that we are saved. We disagree with some Protestants on how that faith is to be enacted, and with some Protestants who hold to the “once saved, always saved” beliefs.

The Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by the Lutheran World Federation and Roman Catholic Church is a good read.

With regard to Catholic vs. Lutheran teachings on works:
"37.We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - follow justification and are its fruits. When the justified live in Christ and act in the grace they receive, they bring forth, in biblical terms, good fruit. Since Christians struggle against sin their entire lives, this consequence of justification is also for them an obligation they must fulfill. Thus both Jesus and the apostolic Scriptures admonish Christians to bring forth the works of love.

38.According to Catholic understanding, good works, made possible by grace and the working of the Holy Spirit, contribute to growth in grace, so that the righteousness that comes from God is preserved and communion with Christ is deepened. When Catholics affirm the “meritorious” character of good works, they wish to say that, according to the biblical witness, a reward in heaven is promised to these works. Their intention is to emphasize the responsibility of persons for their actions, not to contest the character of those works as gifts, or far less to deny that justification always remains the unmerited gift of grace.


*39.The concept of a preservation of grace and a growth in grace and faith is also held by Lutherans. They do emphasize that righteousness as acceptance by God and sharing in the righteousness of Christ is always complete. At the same time, they state that there can be growth in its effects in Christian living. When they view the good works of Christians as the fruits and signs of justification and not as one’s own “merits”, they nevertheless also understand eternal life in accord with the New Testament as unmerited “reward” in the sense of the fulfillment of God’s promise to the believer. [See Sources for section 4.7]. *
"

I would also recommend looking at 1 Corinthians 13 in its entirety.

I think it’s important to also stress that justification in scripture is not just about individual salvation. Far from it. Christ established his Kingdom over. As members of the Body of Christ, reborn through baptism, we are called to live in the Kingdom in Gospel, the epistles, and Revelation. Christ is the fulfillment of the Shekhinah, the Hebrew indwelling of God in the Tabernacle and Temple. Luke 1:33 tells us that the kingdom of Jesus will have no end. Paul tells us the Jesus is Lord. Colossians 2:10 says “you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power.” And it is only through the Resurrection on the Last Day that we are given eternal life, as Revelation ends with the New Jerusalem descending and God living among his people. All these things tell us that living in the Kingdom of God is not just about saving our own souls, but about transforming “new creation” on earth and reuniting wholly and truly with our God – the Shekhinah uniting Heaven and Earth.

The Rapture is a misreading of 1 Thessalonians 4, mistaking the parousia (Second Coming of Christ) as an exit from the world. Instead, parousia is the term of an emperor’s visiting a city, whose people go out to greet him as he enters. This is critical. Salvation is NOT about leaving the planet Earth.

Our “hope of salvation” is in the concrete, physical resurrection on the Last Day. It is in our reborn glorified bodies that our new life is to be lived. So it is only through baptism that we are given membership in the Body of Christ, and it is there that we live it (1 Corinthians 12).
 
I very much doubt that this troubles “all those who hold Protestant, non-Catholic beliefs”. Anyway, what are you looking for here?
Well… there are two branches of Protestants, those that follow Luther and those that follow Calvin, minus Zwingli. Who are you referring too?
 
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