So how is the Blessed Virgin Mary not a goddess?

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FCEGM:
Please get this straight: Catholicism’s teaching on the soul’s divinization through its union with Christ is neither comparable to Mormon doctrine nor heresy of any sort. :banghead:

Your disagreement stems not from your desire to be orthodox, but from your misunderstanding of orthodox teaching on the soul’s union with God. Instead of making accusations of heresy (against the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I might add!) your time would be better spent studying the authentic teaching of the Church as presented in the Catechism and the teachings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church.
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What does this mean??? Are agreeing with the poster and a few other supposed Catholics??? That they worship Mary.:confused:
 
One of the dangers of emphasizing union with God mysticism is that it can often blur the real difference between creator and creation. By calling Mary a God, we are elevating Mary to a real equality with her creator. Which, in my understanding, will never happen to any of us. The oneness of God is replaces with “we are all one God.” Or worse, “we are all Gods.” With this understanding, we may as well all become Hindu. (Right Ahimsa? 🙂 )

Don’t get me wrong, I love the mystics, especially Theresa of Avila.

God Bless
 
Deus Vult:
What does this mean??? Are agreeing with the poster and a few other supposed Catholics??? That they worship Mary.:confused:
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This “side discussion”, so to speak, is not about “worshipping” Mary ( we give her hyperdulia, highest veneration, not latreia, worship) but about the depth of our union with God in and through Christ; it’s really a reflection on the meaning of St. Peter’s teaching that we “have become partakers of the divine nature.”
 
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JimG:
You are quite right. Adoration, or the more technical word latria. Words are quite flexible in their meanings, and so it is often not enough just to use a word. One has to describe in more detail what one means by the word.

(One might say, “I adore my wife” and not have latria in mind.)

And the word worship in older meanings has simply meant veneration. But protestants commonly use the term worship to mean that degree of veneration which is due only to God. Trouble is, their highest concept of worship is often way too small. Quite often, mere prayer is thought of as worship.
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“Worship” can also imply nothing more than deference. “Your worship” is a class term in English society or was–I doubt it is used outside of period films anymore.
 
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utunumsint:
One of the dangers of emphasizing union with God mysticism is that it can often blur the real difference between creator and creation. By calling Mary a God, we are elevating Mary to a real equality with her creator. Which, in my understanding, will never happen to any of us. The oneness of God is replaces with “we are all one God.” Or worse, “we are all Gods.” With this understanding, we may as well all become Hindu. (Right Ahimsa? 🙂 )

Don’t get me wrong, I love the mystics, especially Theresa of Avila.
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But blurring the real difference is not something St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Jesus do. We mustn’t be afraid to reflect on and express to others the depth of the union with God to which we are all called. Knowledge of the teaching of the Church on the insights of these Mystical Doctors (who wouldn’t have been named “Doctors” if their teaching was deemed heretical) can only aid one in understanding the distinctions between Catholic Christian teaching and the claims of the non-Christian East on the one hand and Mormonism on the other.

I love St. Teresa, too. 🙂 But my favorite is St. John of the Cross.

*Because we said that God makes use of nothing other than love, it may prove beneficial to explain the reason for this before commenting on the stanza. The reason is that all our works and all our trials, even though they be the greatest possible, are nothing in the sight of God. For through them we cannot give him anything or fulfill his only desire, which is the exaltation of the soul. Of these other things he desires nothing for himself, since he has no need of them. If anything pleases him, it is the exaltation of the soul. Since there is no way by which he can exalt her more than by making her equal to himself, he is pleased only with her love. For the property of love is to make the lover equal to the object loved.1 Since the soul in this state possesses perfect love, she is called the bride of the Son of God, which signifies equality with him. In this equality of friendship the possessions of both are held in common, as the Bridegroom himself said to his disciples: I have now called you my friends, because all that I have heard from my Father I have manifested to you [Jn. 15:15]. * (Stanza 28, par. 1, The Spiritual Canticle, St. John of the Cross. ).
 
FGEGM
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           It is not I who must get matters straight, rather it is you and anyone else who would teach that there is a god alongside the ONE God of all. As Isaiah so clearly spoke for the Lord, "Beside me, there is NO god and after me there shall be NO god." Is that clear enough? Man cannot and will not achieve divinity. For divinity cannot be obtained. For a god cannot have a beginning. All humans had a beginning. God is without beginning and without end. Man is a creature of time. God dwells outside of time and has given time to man. 

            A man can be DECLARED  a god such as Caesar was and also Alexander the Great, but in truth, they are not truly divine, but looked upon as divine,  by humans. There is only one divine being and that is God who exists in three personalities and that being the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
 
Hi FCEGM,

Thank you for the wonderful quote.

Just to clarify, I certainly do trust the doctors of the church. What I was questioning is the way the mystics are often used to support unorthodox teachings. (I am not implying that you are unorthodox either 🙂 )

You’ve inspired me to read more from John of the Cross.

God Bless.
 
Racer X:
From the American Heritage Dictionary online:

goddess

1. A female being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people. 2. often Goddess A female being believed to be the source of life and being and worshiped as the principal deity in various religions. Used with the. 3. An image of a female supernatural being; an idol. 4. Something, such as fame or wealth, that is worshiped or idealized. 5. A woman of great beauty or grace.

Allow me to provide the first reply.

“The difference is that we Catholics don’t worship Mary. We just do a lot of things that if they were done by people of any other religion would be identified as worship (even by us) but when we do it, it is not worship.”
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Are you able to read the hearts of all of us who are catholic so that you can speak for “we catholics” ?
or are you speaking only for yourself ?

I suspect that you are not really a catholic…
but are trying to convince some of us that the way you think we think, is really how we think .
very clever
but it doesn’t float.

So how is it that you are a catholic ?

gusano
 
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utunumsint:
Thank you for the wonderful quote.

Just to clarify, I certainly do trust the doctors of the church. What I was questioning is the way the mystics are often used to support unorthodox teachings. (I am not implying that you are unorthodox either 🙂 )

You’ve inspired me to read more from John of the Cross.
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Wonderful! 🙂 Enjoy!

And God bless you!
 
Simple, there is no such thing as a goddess, just as there is no such thing as the tooth fairy.
 
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piety101:
FGEGM
Code: 
           It is not I who must get matters straight, rather it is you and anyone else who would teach that there is a god alongside the ONE God of all. As Isaiah so clearly spoke for the Lord, "Beside me, there is NO god and after me there shall be NO god." Is that clear enough? Man cannot and will not achieve divinity. For divinity cannot be obtained. For a god cannot have a beginning. All humans had a beginning. God is without beginning and without end. Man is a creature of time. God dwells outside of time and has given time to man. 

            A man can be DECLARED  a god such as Caesar was and also Alexander the Great, but in truth, they are not truly divine, but looked upon as divine,  by humans. There is only one divine being and that is God who exists in three personalities and that being the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
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Please show me where either the Catechism or the Saints/Doctors that have been quoted say that there is any “god alongside” the ONE God? What the Church teaches (and her Saints reflect upon) - merely echoing the divinely-inspired insight of St. Peter - is that in Christ we are called to become “partakers of the divine nature.”

We participate in the divine nature and its glory by participation in the life of Christ by adoption (through Baptism). This glory is necessary for us if we are to enjoy the Beatific Vision. Christ’s glory is His by virtue of His being the Only Son; we share in His glory by being adopted sons in THE Son. By the grace of the Incarnation of the Son we may rise to share in that glory and already participate in it - though often unawares - through our participation in Christ - initially through Baptism, and subsequently through faithfulness to the sacramental life of the Church.

Now humans may share in His perfection by the grace won for us in Christ. What we can never be is what God is in Himself. By His grace He allows us to participate in the perfection of His Divinity, but it is never ours on our own since we are and will always be His creatures.

Besides the work of St. John of the Cross, I would also recommend to you The Mystical Evolution in the Development and Vitality of the Church, by Fr. John G. Arintero, O.P., TAN Books. It’s a two-volume work that presents in great and helpful detail the mystical theology delineating our “participation in the Divine nature” which we received through Baptism and which is nurtured through the sacramental life of the Church. Fr. Arintero’s work not only helps us better understand with our mind the life in Christ to which we have been called, but it also can serve as a springboard to meditations from the heart. It’s not a quick read by any means, especially if you stop and read all the excellent footnotes, but it’s very much worth the effort. I hope you will make it since a Catholic should be aware of the depth of transformation in Christ to which we are called.

(BTW, it’s three Divine PERSONS, not “personalities”.)
 
Racer X:
So how is the Blessed Virgin Mary not a goddess?
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How about Elishia, taken up to heaven in a chariot of fire, do you think he is a god.

I don’t see how any person of ordinary intelligence could make that mistake. Sorry for being blunt.
 
Racer,

First, Mary is not a goddess if it means that she is to be attributed divinity to. The difference between God and Mary is that God is His own existence, the I am who am, a necessary being. Mary, however, is a contingent being who owes her existence to God.

Second, Mary is in a sense “a god” if it means that she partakes in the divine nature or energies of God. That is how the Eastern Christians put it. Nonetheless, there is the distinction of God’s essence and Mary.
 
There is but one God revealed as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Anyone who declares Mary a true goddess is a heretic, plain and simple,
 
Thank you to all who participated in this discussion.
This thread is now closed.
 
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