So... I’m Catholic. Now what?

[mrsdizzyd]

Asking a person if they were previously married is in no way inappropriate nor socially unacceptable and in the context of this particular thread, very appropriate.

And that is where we fundamentally disagree. It is personal and inappropriate for strangers to inquire about the state of someone’s marriage. All the more when the state of that person’s marriage is not at issue. I am neither divorced nor remarried, and what’s more, I am fully aware of the Church’s teaching on the subject and I am in full agreement with it. Even as a Protestant, I held the same view with regards to divorce and remarriage. Christ himself was very black and white about that issue. It’s one of his clearest teachings in the Gospels.

And for the record, I wasn’t so much offended as I am taken aback by the familiarity of the question.

 

[Lioness1]

Do you wear a wedding ring? If so do you daily announce to complete strangers what your marital status is?

The question is absolutely valid in the context of someone joining the Roman Catholic church. The Eastern Catholic church has very different views on marriage and divorce.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

In my view, there is a HUGE difference between asking someone if they are married vs. asking someone if they are divorced and remarried.

I understand that you had a personally devastating experience with divorce and remarriage and that it presented a hardship for you, and so you feel justified in your line of questioning.

Again, you think it’s acceptable and I think it’s overly personal. This is a fundamental difference of perspectives we are just going to have to agree to disagree about. I have no interest in belaboring the point.

 

[Lioness1]

“I understand that you had a personally devastating experience with divorce and remarriage and that it presented a hardship for you, and so you feel justified in your line of questioning.”

Actually this is not the case.

I am though mentoring a new catholic through this process, and I find it very off putting and frankly unchristian.

I have to answer here being that I am unable to add additional comment threads, I have reached my limit:

Can the Orthodox Way End the Divorce and Remarriage Debate? - Crisis Magazine

I am going to let you explore that subject.

There are plenty of sites where the Orthodox vs Catholic view on marriage and divorce are outlined. In a nutshell: The Orthodox view is that prior to confirmation and baptism, what happened before has no bearing on your new christian life, including prior marriage. The Orthodox church feels that Christ’s sacrifice covers all sin, not all sin apart from divorce.

They also feel that the Elvis dude in Vegas, or the county court house can not preform a Sacrament such as marriage, AND if the marriages that they preform were sacramental, then also the divorces, that they allow would also call down the approval of God.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Actually this is not the case.

I beg your pardon for misunderstanding what you wrote.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I find it very off putting and frankly unchristian

You know, I can’t really see how the church can come to a different position. When you consider Mt 5:32, 19:3; Mk 10:2; and Luke16:18, to be divorced and remarried is to commit adultery or cause someone else to commit adultery. Adultery being sinful, it has an impact on your state of grace.

How does the Orthodox church deal with this?

 

[Brettbat]

The Orthodox view is complex. In a nutshell, a random person at the courthouse does not have the authority to speak for and act on God’s behalf. Thus a civil marriage does not apply to the scriptures you mentioned because clearly “what God has joined together” applies to sacramental marriage performed by the proper apostolic authority (the valid priesthoods of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches).

Also, adultery is understood to mean many things, not just the traditional carnal definition. Adultery can be neglect, to putting anything before the spouse etc.

The things we have done before baptism (including divorce and remarriage) do not exist after proper baptism.

 

[Brettbat]

That is a very personal and honestly none of your business, but since you’ve brought it up in a public forum (very bad form) I feel obligated to respond.

Well, thank heavens my personal conversion to Catholicism is not dependent on you and your feelings about divorce and remarriage…

I think it is fantastic that this person has found the Church. What perplexes me is this: from these responses, it is clear that this is a person who is quick to be offended, who does not know or care when someone is trying to help her, and who is ungracious and mean spirited. None of these qualities are the qualities of a Christian.

If this is how you are as a human being, why do you want to be a Christian? Why do you call yourself one?

Mercy, kindness, compassion, understanding, graciousness. These are the attributes of a Christian. These are what you need to work on. Not RCIA, not praying the Rosary, not buying books and watching videos. These attributes.

This is not an attack, but an observation.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

See previous comment re beams and specks. Surely you don’t propose that you are a saint and perfect in the sight of God.

I call myself a Christian based on the belief in him and a desire to seek his face. Same as everyone else who professes the same.

All the rest is a work in progress. The same is true of every human being otherwise there would no need of a Church, a Bible, confession, prayer, grace, or mercy.

It is with very good reason that Christ admonished us to judge not unless we were prepared to be judged in the same manner.

 

[Brettbat]

It is with very good reason that Christ admonished us to judge not unless we were prepared to be judged in the same manner.

I agree with you. I am fully prepared to be judged in that manner. I do not have the problems that I pointed out, thus am fully able to make such judgments.

See previous comment re beams and specks. Surely you don’t propose that you are a saint and perfect in the sight of God.

Not a saint by any means, but do not treat people the way you have on this thread.

I call myself a Christian based on the belief in him and a desire to seek his face. Same as everyone else who professes the same.

That desire is great, but true Christianity is a transformative experience , the putting on of a new person, of taking on the attributes of Christ.

 

[JanetF]

See previous comment re beams and specks. Surely you don’t propose that you are a saint and perfect in the sight of God.

I call myself a Christian based on the belief in him and a desire to seek his face. Same as everyone else who professes the same.

All the rest is a work in progress. The same is true of every human being otherwise there would no need of a Church, a Bible, confession, prayer, grace, or mercy.

It is with very good reason that Christ admonished us to judge not unless we were prepared to be judged in the same manner.

Just to clarify something, Christ admonished us not to judge the state of another’s soul, not their actions. We are in fact, urged to gently correct our fellow men when we see them headed down the wrong path.

 

[Brettbat]

Just to clarify something, Christ admonished us not to judge the state of another’s soul, not their actions. We are in fact, urged to gently correct our fellow men when we see them headed down the wrong path.

Perfectly stated and a perfect understanding of the Lord’s teaching.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

That’s between you and God, but I sure hope you are right that you don’t have mean-spirited or ungracious moments. That is quite bold statement to make. I have never met a human being on this planet that can claim such a state.

You started you comment with “This might seem overly personal…”. That indicates that you knew you might cause offense and charged ahead anyway. I wonder why, if you knew you might cause offense, you did not pose your question via private message?

Further statements such as “None of these qualities are the qualities of a Christian.” and “If this is how you are as a human being, why do you want to be a Christian? Why do you call yourself one?” Seem to me to fall pretty squarely within the confines of judging “the state of another’s soul”.

While it is true that I am a sinner with much to repent of, you certainly did not need to call into question the reality and authenticity of my acceptance and procession of Christ as my savior.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Further, if you intend to help people to Christ as you say, you might reconsider your approach. It is overly familiar and judgmental.

This is an aspect of Catholic identity that I have an expremely hard time with. The Catholic approach to evangelism shuts more doors than it opens. This is why it’s taken years for me to finally convert. I have no problems with the tenants of the faith, the dogmas, authority, sacraments, it’s the judgemental, holier-than-thou culture of the Catholic Church that is offputing for me.

You have to build bridges before you chastise otherwise you firmly slam that door closed. (Which Pope Francis does extremely well)

 

[mrsdizzyd]

JanetF:

Just to clarify something, Christ admonished us not to judge the state of another’s soul, not their actions. We are in fact, urged to gently correct our fellow men when we see them headed down the wrong path.

Perfectly stated and a perfect understanding of the Lord’s teaching.

Interesting footnote from the online bible found at the usccb website:

• [7:1] This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with Mt 7:5, 6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one’s own faults.
• [7:5] Hypocrite: the designation previously given to the scribes and Pharisees is here given to the Christian disciple who is concerned with the faults of another and ignores his own more serious offenses.

 

[Pup7]

Really? After someone had done it and she made her opinion known, you did it again?

Wow, way to act like a christian. You were given appropriate and wise admonition and your gut instinct is to be offended and act as if you were slighted in some way. I recommend you spend some quiet time in prayer over this, and stop attacking people who are trying to give you and others ( because others are watching ) objective and sound advice.

Sorry, but you deliberately made an additional comment on a situation she’d already addressed, likely to prove a point. Why? There was no reason for it. She’d moved on.

 

[Brettbat]

7:5] Hypocrite: the designation previously given to the scribes and Pharisees is here given to the Christian disciple who is concerned with the faults of another and ignores his own more serious offenses.

I’m not ignoring more serious offenses, because I do not have them. Thus I am not a hypocrite.

7:1] This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with Mt 7:5, 6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one’s own faults.

I am not forgetful of my own faults. I am addressing your unchristian behavior. I am not guilty of unchristian behavior, thus there is nothing wrong with anything I have said.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

mrsdizzyd:

7:5] Hypocrite: the designation previously given to the scribes and Pharisees is here given to the Christian disciple who is concerned with the faults of another and ignores his own more serious offenses.

I’m not ignoring more serious offenses, because I do not have them. Thus I am not a hypocrite.

7:1] This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with Mt 7:5, 6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one’s own faults.

I am not forgetful of my own faults. I am addressing your unchristian behavior. I am not guilty of unchristian behavior, thus there is nothing wrong with anything I have said.

Again, that’s between you and God. I sure hope you are as Christian as you claim to be…

 

[JanetF]

Who said anything about ignoring our own offenses? You want a list of all of mine? Might take a while…

 

[steve-b]

It’s been YEARS in the making. I’ve studied, I’ve asked questions, I’ve prayed.

Today I visited a parish I’m interested in. They were having Eucharistic Adoration so I had a seat and cried and prayed for guidance. Tonight, it hit me. Without a shadow of a doubt I’m Catholic.

BUT, now what do I do? How do I actually go about becoming a registered confirmed member of a parish?

See the pastor of the parish. Join RCIA.

Then do as Peter taught. Add the following 7 attributes to your faith in ever increasing amounts