M
mlchance
Guest
There are other Cs to consider. For example “cheap” and “cubic zirconium.”
God bless your impending marriage.
– Mark L. Chance.
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God bless your impending marriage.
– Mark L. Chance.
M
momof3boys
Guest
This is off the topic, but I am wondering where in Montana you are from? I’m from Northwestern Wyoming. Just curious.
M
montanaman
Guest
I’m actually from Washington state, originally. After a little bit of Franciscan schooling, I needed to find a cold state to cool off my overheated brain. (And my family had moved to Deer Lodge, Mont.) I myself lived in Missoula for about seven years.
I never spent much time in Wyoming, but I’m going to go ahead and guess that the cowboys there are nothing like those in “Brokeback Mountain.”
Mark,
You are a bad, bad man.
M
momof3boys
Guest
I can assure you, it would be hard to find a lot of cowboys like the ones in that movie! lolI never spent much time in Wyoming, but I’m going to go ahead and guess that the cowboys there are nothing like those in “Brokeback Mountain.”
Mark,
You are a bad, bad man.
Yellowstone Park is an awesome place to go to. I live about an hour and a half from there.
V
vluvski
Guest
MM,
Consider this verse:
“Delight in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.”
Do you delight in Your Lord, and is it the desire of your heart to marry Grace?
Consider this verse:
“Delight in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.”
Do you delight in Your Lord, and is it the desire of your heart to marry Grace?
M
montanaman
Guest
Well, now what?
On Saturday I bought a beautiful ring. I felt good. It felt right. Yeah, there was a nagging question in the back of my head, but I just dismissed it as normal jittery nerves. I began praying the rosary for discernment that night, and I have every day since.
Monday I asked our priest to pray for me. He’s a sharp, life-filled guy. Every time I talk to him he gives some new insight. One thing he said was “When you look at the ring or think about marrying her, do you feel any reservation? That’s the Holy Spirit telling you something.” I mumbled some jive about always seeing both sides of the issue.
On Tuesday I picked up the ring. I almost threw up. I couldn’t get my mouth to work right and my face burned.
By Wednesday I was having to work hard to push myself forward with this. I was begging God for a clear message.
Last night, (Thursday), I went over to Grace’s thinking that maybe, whatever I thought/felt while being with her would be a good indication of my “real” feelings underlying all this happy horse@#$% about doing the right thing, or the covenant of marriage, etc. (By that I mean that there’s a lot to be said for looking objectively at a potential spouse, weighing all the good to the bad, and making an informed decision, rather than just letting yourself get swept up in the romance and making an impulsive decision.)
I didn’t even get my coat off before I knew I couldn’t (shouldn’t?) go through with it on Christmas Eve. We went downtown for a walk through the old streets–usually a very romantic thing–but I didn’t hear a word she said. I had a chorus of opposing voices in my head all clamoring for attention, and all speaking out of turn.
We watched a movie and I went home.
Today I drove out to the jewelry store and exchanged the ring for a “tennis bracelet.” (I have no idea what that is, but has diamonds and is beautiful). On the way there I managed to get a hold of our priest and he gave me characteristically insightful advice. He didn’t tell me that I should end it, but he did say that it seemed quite clear that a Christmas Eve proposal was out of the question.
Then, I spent the day on a crash Christmas shopping jag, and I almost broke down twice in the malls.
I know, however, that I made the right decision. I’m hoping that this is just a timing issue, and that God has a few more things for me to settle or learn before we can be happy together, but I honestly don’t know right now. She just popped in to my place for a second, and she was stunningly beautiful and good and sweet as always, and I was tempted to question my decision. Still, I think I did the right thing.
Let this be a lesson to anyone discerning for marriage–don’t get ahead of yourself. Spend as much time in prayer as you can BEFORE you set things in motion. God will answer your prayers and you’ll be able to hear the answer if you just pray that HIS will be done, not your own. I know most people here know this, but this is the first time I’ve ever really practiced what I preached (sort of).
I have no idea what’s going to happen next–should we stay together? I don’t know. One step at a time…
On Saturday I bought a beautiful ring. I felt good. It felt right. Yeah, there was a nagging question in the back of my head, but I just dismissed it as normal jittery nerves. I began praying the rosary for discernment that night, and I have every day since.
Monday I asked our priest to pray for me. He’s a sharp, life-filled guy. Every time I talk to him he gives some new insight. One thing he said was “When you look at the ring or think about marrying her, do you feel any reservation? That’s the Holy Spirit telling you something.” I mumbled some jive about always seeing both sides of the issue.
On Tuesday I picked up the ring. I almost threw up. I couldn’t get my mouth to work right and my face burned.
By Wednesday I was having to work hard to push myself forward with this. I was begging God for a clear message.
Last night, (Thursday), I went over to Grace’s thinking that maybe, whatever I thought/felt while being with her would be a good indication of my “real” feelings underlying all this happy horse@#$% about doing the right thing, or the covenant of marriage, etc. (By that I mean that there’s a lot to be said for looking objectively at a potential spouse, weighing all the good to the bad, and making an informed decision, rather than just letting yourself get swept up in the romance and making an impulsive decision.)
I didn’t even get my coat off before I knew I couldn’t (shouldn’t?) go through with it on Christmas Eve. We went downtown for a walk through the old streets–usually a very romantic thing–but I didn’t hear a word she said. I had a chorus of opposing voices in my head all clamoring for attention, and all speaking out of turn.
We watched a movie and I went home.
Today I drove out to the jewelry store and exchanged the ring for a “tennis bracelet.” (I have no idea what that is, but has diamonds and is beautiful). On the way there I managed to get a hold of our priest and he gave me characteristically insightful advice. He didn’t tell me that I should end it, but he did say that it seemed quite clear that a Christmas Eve proposal was out of the question.
Then, I spent the day on a crash Christmas shopping jag, and I almost broke down twice in the malls.
I know, however, that I made the right decision. I’m hoping that this is just a timing issue, and that God has a few more things for me to settle or learn before we can be happy together, but I honestly don’t know right now. She just popped in to my place for a second, and she was stunningly beautiful and good and sweet as always, and I was tempted to question my decision. Still, I think I did the right thing.
Let this be a lesson to anyone discerning for marriage–don’t get ahead of yourself. Spend as much time in prayer as you can BEFORE you set things in motion. God will answer your prayers and you’ll be able to hear the answer if you just pray that HIS will be done, not your own. I know most people here know this, but this is the first time I’ve ever really practiced what I preached (sort of).
I have no idea what’s going to happen next–should we stay together? I don’t know. One step at a time…
P
Princess_Abby
Guest
You poor stressed out…discerning…guy… I am going to pray extra hard for you.
Can I ask if Grace is expecting a proposal? As in, do you two talk about marriage all the time and is it ‘expected’ by her that at some point you’re going to pop the question? Or is this just something you ‘decided’ and were going to surprise her with, hoping/knowing she’d say yes?
Have you had the long discussions about what married life would be like together, how you would raise your children, how you would cope with her parents’ reactions, etc?
Is there something specific that is giving you this doubt and anxiety?
Can I ask if Grace is expecting a proposal? As in, do you two talk about marriage all the time and is it ‘expected’ by her that at some point you’re going to pop the question? Or is this just something you ‘decided’ and were going to surprise her with, hoping/knowing she’d say yes?
Have you had the long discussions about what married life would be like together, how you would raise your children, how you would cope with her parents’ reactions, etc?
Is there something specific that is giving you this doubt and anxiety?
M
montanaman
Guest
Yes, I’m pretty sure she’s expecting a proposal. Not because I hinted at it, but we both feel a certain vector in our relationship, and we’re approaching “something.” We’re “stagnant” in the relatinship in the sense that everything is perfect, or so it seems, and it makes no sense not to be married. Plus, we’re getting sick of dealing with temptation.
We’ve been discussing marriage for a long time, but mostly in the context of “how?” Raise the kids Catholic or Protestant? (I told her early on that raising the kids Catholic would be a deal-breaker. She had to accept that or find someone better suited for her. Actually, I wasn’t that harsh, but I was clear.) We’ve spent most of our relationship dealing with both Catholic/Protestant issues and temptation. Just getting to this point where we’re on the same page theologically (for the most part) and able to control ourselves is a huge accomplishment.
And then there’s the family…
I’ve written about the situation elsewhere on here, but the short story is that they feel she’s “in sin” because she didn’t get Dad’s permission to date me (and she’s 27), and because I’m Catholic. It mostly has to do with his alleged authority, though.
The family situation has been a big stumbling block, but not insurmountable. She would, if I proposed, be able to deal with being cut off for a while. She has said, though, that once she was married off to some guy that Dad would let go and let him “have dominion over her.” (My paraphrase–not his words).
As for anything specific giving me the doubts, perhaps. I’m a serious guy, pretty worldly, I guess. I don’t deal well with cute and cuddly, and she epitomizes cute and cuddly. She’s also utterly, absolutely, apparently irretrievably in love with me. I love her…but…what? I have been Superboyfriend to her, doing everything I’ve perceived that girls want or need in a man, and more than that, I’ve enjoyed doing it. I LOVE serving her. But I don’t have that helpless, “Oh Lord please make her love me” feeling that society says we should have. Could I live without her? Yes. Would it kill me to lose her? Yes.
From there it just gets more confusing. I know I love her, and I would drive an hour through the snow just to change her flat tire. (I know I would because I’ve done that.) So WHY can’t I just let go and love her without reservation? WHY do I want to spend so much time by myself? WHY can’t I pledge my life to her? If she completes RCIA (and I see no reason why she wouldn’t) she would be my ideal mate.
Hey, maybe that’s what the holdup is…
F
farmbabe1
Guest
montanaman…
Hello from Montana (Go Grizzlies!)! I have been reading with interest your posts about the ring (now a tennis bracelet) and have been reflecting upon my own experience. I, too, was a “wordly” soul, and had been around the block a time or two before meeting my husband. I dated men who were “perfect” for me, but there was always something gnawing at my gut, something that caused me, for lack of a better word, angst. It seemed that I had to try too hard to prove to myself that he (they) were the right ones and that I was talking myself into believing that the gnawing at my gut was normal jitters. After meeting my husband, I wasn’t struck with the “he’s the one/love at first sight/swept off my feet” feelings that society says we “should have”, but I also didn’t have the anxiety that was there before. I can honestly say that I felt more at peace with him than with anyone else before. He wasn’t “perfect” for me: I was a city girl…He was a plow boy…I had dated a lot…He had one previous girlfriend…I have a Master’s degree…He has a vo-tech diploma…I was (still am) Catholic…He was a non-practicing Lutheran…etc., etc…He was far from being what I thought would be my perfect mate…BUT…the feeling of peace that I got with him and when I thought of marrying him was so profound, that I knew he was the right one for me…that he was the one God had planned for me. I had every reason to be anxious: With him being a rancher/farmer, I had to leave my job, my friends, my home and move to the middle of nowhere and start everything over in terms of job, friends, home (and believe me, northcentral Montana is the middle of nowhere). But, I had peace. It does not sound to me like you have peace in your heart. Although Grace may be perfect for you on paper, your idea of perfect and God’s idea of perfect may be different. Mine certainly was and Thank Goodness! To think now of what I thought was an “ideal mate”! He will give you the knowledge to know when it’s the right person. You will not need to over-analyze or stress-out because you will feel the Holy Spirit’s peace within you. And with that peace comes joy. I don’t feel any joy in your posts. You have said that you have begged God to give you a clear message. I think He is.
Pray for peace and joy. I will pray for you, too.
God Bless You.
Sara
(P.S. With three children and after 12 years of marriage…I now have tons of angst and anxiety and pray all the time for peace!)
Hello from Montana (Go Grizzlies!)! I have been reading with interest your posts about the ring (now a tennis bracelet) and have been reflecting upon my own experience. I, too, was a “wordly” soul, and had been around the block a time or two before meeting my husband. I dated men who were “perfect” for me, but there was always something gnawing at my gut, something that caused me, for lack of a better word, angst. It seemed that I had to try too hard to prove to myself that he (they) were the right ones and that I was talking myself into believing that the gnawing at my gut was normal jitters. After meeting my husband, I wasn’t struck with the “he’s the one/love at first sight/swept off my feet” feelings that society says we “should have”, but I also didn’t have the anxiety that was there before. I can honestly say that I felt more at peace with him than with anyone else before. He wasn’t “perfect” for me: I was a city girl…He was a plow boy…I had dated a lot…He had one previous girlfriend…I have a Master’s degree…He has a vo-tech diploma…I was (still am) Catholic…He was a non-practicing Lutheran…etc., etc…He was far from being what I thought would be my perfect mate…BUT…the feeling of peace that I got with him and when I thought of marrying him was so profound, that I knew he was the right one for me…that he was the one God had planned for me. I had every reason to be anxious: With him being a rancher/farmer, I had to leave my job, my friends, my home and move to the middle of nowhere and start everything over in terms of job, friends, home (and believe me, northcentral Montana is the middle of nowhere). But, I had peace. It does not sound to me like you have peace in your heart. Although Grace may be perfect for you on paper, your idea of perfect and God’s idea of perfect may be different. Mine certainly was and Thank Goodness! To think now of what I thought was an “ideal mate”! He will give you the knowledge to know when it’s the right person. You will not need to over-analyze or stress-out because you will feel the Holy Spirit’s peace within you. And with that peace comes joy. I don’t feel any joy in your posts. You have said that you have begged God to give you a clear message. I think He is.
Pray for peace and joy. I will pray for you, too.
God Bless You.
Sara
(P.S. With three children and after 12 years of marriage…I now have tons of angst and anxiety and pray all the time for peace!)
R
ReginaNova
Guest
montanaman, you did the right thing. Obviously, something is making you uneasy and you need to work it through. Too many young couples proceed right to the engagement and marrriage without working through those nagging concerns. Especially in a mixed faith marriage and with the animosity of Grace’s parents, you are wise to proceed very slowly. There is a very real risk that at some future time Grace may resent that she converted for you and that she (and you and your kids) may be alienated from her father and family. As painful as this time is for you, it will be many times worse if you don’t deal with it until after you are married. You are doing the right thing. The right thing is always harder. It is okay. God is with you. Peace.
M
montanaman
Guest
Thanks to you both. I believe I made the right decision, too, but now I’m still faced with a lot questions about the immediate future. Particularly when I get back to work on Tuesday and I’m mobbed by all the girls I’d shared my plans with.
And yes, go Griz.
And yes, go Griz.
W
wacky_wonderful
Guest
I can hardly wait to hear the next installment of this story. It’s a real live cliffhanger.
Just wondering if there’s someone at the office who won’t secretly be thrilled that the engagement is off! Makes ya wonder, doesn’t it?
Just wondering if there’s someone at the office who won’t secretly be thrilled that the engagement is off! Makes ya wonder, doesn’t it?
P
puzzleannie
Guest
so didja get engaged for Christmas or not? didja? didja? what is the scoop?
M
montanaman
Guest
No engagement. Didn’t happen. I took the ring back on Friday.
Had a very nice Christmas together, but she told me she had expected a proposal. It took all I had to keep a poker face when she explained why.
I think there’s always been a nagging doubt in the back of my mind, but after going to the brink of engagement and turning back, it feels like we’ve already broken up. If I know I don’t want to get engaged in the near future, and we’ve already been dating for about a year and a half, where’s that leave us?
I won’t even begin to try to explain this sadness right now, but imagine the sweetest, most sensitive, bright-eyed person you’ve ever known, and then imagine what heartbreak does to that kind of person. If this is the beginning of the end for us, it kills me to think what this is going to do to her. I hope that the “message” I got from on-high said “Not right now” instead of “Never” but right now I just can’t think straight. I have a ton of work to do today and I’m thankful for it.
If I’ve made a huge mistake with this relationship, I think that’s it for me for a long, long time. I always get into relationships with the best intentions, managed to inject a lot of poison into them, and then end up here. Well, not quite HERE, because I’ve never been to the brink of an engagement before.
Blah. Thanks for being my disembodied sounding boards.
Had a very nice Christmas together, but she told me she had expected a proposal. It took all I had to keep a poker face when she explained why.
I think there’s always been a nagging doubt in the back of my mind, but after going to the brink of engagement and turning back, it feels like we’ve already broken up. If I know I don’t want to get engaged in the near future, and we’ve already been dating for about a year and a half, where’s that leave us?
I won’t even begin to try to explain this sadness right now, but imagine the sweetest, most sensitive, bright-eyed person you’ve ever known, and then imagine what heartbreak does to that kind of person. If this is the beginning of the end for us, it kills me to think what this is going to do to her. I hope that the “message” I got from on-high said “Not right now” instead of “Never” but right now I just can’t think straight. I have a ton of work to do today and I’m thankful for it.
If I’ve made a huge mistake with this relationship, I think that’s it for me for a long, long time. I always get into relationships with the best intentions, managed to inject a lot of poison into them, and then end up here. Well, not quite HERE, because I’ve never been to the brink of an engagement before.
Blah. Thanks for being my disembodied sounding boards.
W
wacky_wonderful
Guest
MM, 3-6 months from now the reason for your hesitancy will reveal itself. You’ll know and it will all make sense. No point in rushing it, just know that it will happen. God has a plan. We’re all pulling for you. Keep us informed. Besides, your life is much more interesting than mine right now!
P
Princess_Abby
Guest
So… does she have any idea what the last week or two was like for you (buying the ring, returning it, etc)? I’m guessing from the ‘poker face’ description that you didn’t get into it. How did you explain your reasons for NOT giving her a proposal as she was basically saying she expected it? Does she realize you are having all these thoughts of it being the beginning of the end?
M
montanaman
Guest
She might have some idea about my thinking process the last few days, but I don’t think she has more than that. She doesn’t know that I bought the ring. I think she’d be completely heartbroken if she did.
Yes, we had a good talk about the state of the relationship. “Good” meaning “honest.” I can’t say we’re very happy about things right now.
We both know that something has to happen because we’re “stagnating.” I wish I could identify some reason for it other than not feeling “in synch” with her. I’m not sure where I’m going with my life, but things are getting better. She’s firmly planted here when I have thoughts about finally moving back home close to family. But is that it? I don’t know. I don’t think so.
But anyway, she feels as though something is very “off” as well. She still has faith, but she’s going through a vast, empty dry spell right now. She knows that giving in to temptation is wrong (and we have, several times) but she has almost no will to fight it anymore. On the other hand, I’m growing in my faith like I never have before. It’s more than intellectual assent, it’s utter reliance and trust. I was originally attracted to her because of her faith, and now, maybe that’s the problem.
And of course, the less God is in her life, the more I become a surrogate. I know that might sound outrageously arrogant, but I’ve experienced the same thing. When God seems impossibly distant, you look for substitutes. Her family has basically kept her at arm’s length, so she doesn’t have them to rely on. In D.C. it seems nearly impossible to find good friends. She has a few, but it doesn’t help that they’re married, etc.
Sorry. I shouldn’t be hashing this out in this forum. I’ve learned that it’s best just to pray and let things work themselves out. We’re going to begin praying a lot more and listening for the answers, because we both agree that something is wrong when one person gets one answer, and the other gets another.
S
StephanieC
Guest
Montanaman, I actually want to thank you for sharing your thought process with the forum. Even if somebody chooses to read this in an unhealthy, voyeuristic way, I appreciate you taking the time to post.
You are demonstrating what true, holy discernment entails.
You are giving Catholic singles an insight into the nuts and bolts of discernment, even if you feel as though you are stumbling blind in the mystery yourself.
You are providing such powerful and articulate testimony to the concept & workings of a vocation, whether it be to marriage or to another station.
Thank you.
I am a married mom, but reading this thread, I can only nod my head & say, “Not my will but Thine be done.”
Just my two cents. God bless you.
M
montanaman
Guest
Okay, that was weird. I was sitting here working on some writing, and all of a sudden I get this message from MSN asking if I’d like to add this person to my chat list. I clicked on “Sure, why not?” thinking it was someone from here. It turns out it was someone who had found an old apologetics blog I’d long since abandoned. She wanted some advice on how to deal with anti-Catholics.
We had a nice little chat. Turns out she was in a very similar situation. Catholic/Protestant problems in a long-term relationship, cynicism about the state of marriage and courtship these days, etc. I’m not saying that this was a sign–not definitely, anyway–but it was certainly a welcome thing to chat with someone who knew exactly what I was talking about.
Anyway, the Lord works in mysterious ways…
We had a nice little chat. Turns out she was in a very similar situation. Catholic/Protestant problems in a long-term relationship, cynicism about the state of marriage and courtship these days, etc. I’m not saying that this was a sign–not definitely, anyway–but it was certainly a welcome thing to chat with someone who knew exactly what I was talking about.
Anyway, the Lord works in mysterious ways…
W
wacky_wonderful
Guest
YeeHaw!! Ok, now tell us again exactly what you did. You lit a candle, you said the rosary (how often?) and what else? You go, boy. And keep the updates comin’ on a regular basis. 
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