So, i hear...

[Dokimas]

here is what you said and this is just one of them.

**The OP said that the CC is not the original church which I agreed with. I would say that no non-catholic Christian church is either putting us all in the same boat, so to speak. Many individuals in the churches mentioned are no doubt part of the First Church of Jesus Christ, His Body and Bride. Our part is obey the Head of the Church, put aside the differences and preach the Gospel so all may get a chance to hear and follow Jesus. **

:byzsoc:

I’m looking for the word ‘resemble’. I can’t find it?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Dokimas:
many come into the Church give all they have and work for the Kingdom. please continue to quote Scriptures on the Church.

**
Sirach 50
16 he stretched forth his hand to make a libation, and offered of the blood of the grape. 17 He poured out at the foot of the altar a divine odour to the most high Prince.**

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

here is what you said and this is just one of them.

The OP said that the CC is not the original church which I agreed with. I would say that no non-catholic Christian church is either putting us all in the same boat, so to speak. Many individuals in the churches mentioned are no doubt part of the First Church of Jesus Christ, His Body and Bride. Our part is obey the Head of the Church, put aside the differences and preach the Gospel so all may get a chance to hear and follow Jesus.

:byzsoc:

Dokimas, I think I see it…

j/k

 

[wisdomseeker]

I’m looking for the word ‘resemble’. I can’t find it?

if i make a mistake in my writings, please dont hesitate to correct me.

i should probably use the word: THE SAME.

**
Sirach 50
16 he stretched forth his hand to make a libation, and offered of the blood of the grape. 17 He poured out at the foot of the altar a divine odour to the most high Prince. **

 

[Dokimas]

Dokimas, I think I see it…

j/k

I wish I was so clever and humorous. Well done, friend.

 

[Dokimas]

if i make a mistake in my writings, please dont hesitate to correct me.

i should probably use the word: THE SAME.

I don’t believe it is the one and the same church. I’m sure there are many things that make it resemble the 1st century church. I have NO problem with the CC. In fact, one great blessing for me posting on this forum is that I believe I’ve made at least a few good catholic-Christian friends. I’m real thankful to God for that.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I don’t believe it is the one and the same church. I’m sure there are many things that make it resemble the 1st century church. I have NO problem with the CC. In fact, one great blessing for me posting on this forum is that I believe I’ve made at least a few good catholic-Christian friends. I’m real thankful to God for that.

that is why i posted this here. so, we can stablished that the CC is the One Church and only Church of the Bible.

please continue to quote Scriptures on the Church. if you may.

thank you.

**Sirach 50
16 he stretched forth his hand to make a libation, and offered of the blood of the grape. 17 He poured out at the foot of the altar a divine odour to the most high Prince. **

 

[wisdomseeker]

is that so?

so, when Jesus said: if he doesnt listen to the Church, treat him as tax collector. what individual is Jesus given this command to?

All the heretics, therefore, come against the Church; but while all the heretics can conquer each other, they can win nothing for themselves. For their victory is the triumph of the Church over all of them. One heresy struggles against that teaching of another, which thefaith of the Church has already condemned in the other heresy, - for there is nothing which the heretics hold in common, ’ and the result is that they affirm our faith while fighting among themselves."
Saint Hilary of Poitiers… The Trinity, 7:4, 356 A.D… Jurgens 865

waiting on the answer to this.

 

[wisdomseeker]

IMHO not all Protestants are anti-Catholic or think the CC is not a Biblical Church. There are extremes on both sides of the aisle. I have seen many Protestants who consider Catholics to be their brothers and sisters in Christ and vice versa. I also see fundamentalist Catholics (ie…SSPX) that consider Protestants to be condemned to hell because they are outside the “Catholic Church”.

I"m not sure this is a thread that can breed a whole lot of Christian love.

Thank you for coming on board.

i quite understand what you are saying but that is not what the discussion is about. it is all about the Church. which Church is the Church of the Bible? obviously, they dont think is the CC. it is good if they all realize that Jesus built only One Church and it is important that all people be in the Church.

**Sirach 50
16 he stretched forth his hand to make a libation, and offered of the blood of the grape. 17 He poured out at the foot of the altar a divine odour to the most high Prince. **

 

[Nine_Two]

Thanks everyone for coming on the board.

Nine. i think we can be charitable if we are willing to listen more than talk. we can certainly wait on the protestants to describe how their assemblies of believers resembles the Church of the Bible and the CC doesnt.

Nine, the Truth must be told, weather people like or not. the Truth should not be hidden because someone dont want to hear.

**St. Clement of Rome

[47, 6] Shameful, beloved, extremely shameful, and unworthy of your training in Christ, is the report that on account of one or two persons the well established and ancient Church of the Corinthians is in revolt against the presbyters. And this report has come not only to us, but even to those professing other faiths than ours, so that by your folly you heap blasphemies on the name of the Lord, and create a danger for yourselves.**

I quite agree with you on that, I despise covering up the truth for the sake of being non-offensive, however opening with that line (which truth be told I agree is apt), might give the impression that you would like to do otherwise.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I quite agree with you on that, I despise covering up the truth for the sake of being non-offensive, however opening with that line (which truth be told I agree is apt), might give the impression that you would like to do otherwise.

if i have miss spoken pardon me.

Truth must be told.

** “For I am the least of the Apostles, and am not worthy to be called an Apostle because I persecuted the CHURCH OF GOD.”
1Cor 15:9**

 

[jericho777]

waiting on the answer to this.

Mat 18: 15-18 “If your brother sins against you,b go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’c 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Jesus is saying if a brother sins against you and you ask the local congregation to arbitrate and he still refuses to repent then is to be considered as a tax collector. He’s not saying if you don’t listen to the church you are like a tax collector.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Mat 18: 15-18 “If your brother sins against you,b go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’c 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Jesus is saying if a brother sins against you and you ask the local congregation to arbitrate and he still refuses to repent then is to be considered as a tax collector. He’s not saying if you don’t listen to the church you are like a tax collector.

a local congregation? where does it say local congregation?

15 But if your brother shall offend against you, go, and rebuke him between you and him alone. If he shall hear you, you shall gain your brother. 16 And if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to you as the heathen and publican.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Mat 18: 15-18 “If your brother sins against you,b go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’c 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Jesus is saying if a brother sins against you and you ask the local congregation to arbitrate and he still refuses to repent then is to be considered as a tax collector. He’s not saying if you don’t listen to the church you are like a tax collector.

Please read the entire chapter and see specifically who the Lord was speaking too, when He said this.

 

[spn82756]

Thank you for coming on board.

i quite understand what you are saying but that is not what the discussion is about. it is all about the Church. which Church is the Church of the Bible? obviously, they dont think is the CC. it is good if they all realize that Jesus built only One Church and it is important that all people be in the Church. Perhaps you should challenge Fr Serpa on some of his apologetics…PM of course.

**Sirach 50
16 he stretched forth his hand to make a libation, and offered of the blood of the grape. 17 He poured out at the foot of the altar a divine odour to the most high Prince. **

I’m glad I have your permission to contribute. Now…how do you counter the Orthodox Church which has had no changes in over 1000 years? Ahhhh…the Pope can change what he wants and claim infallibility. Great! While I am Catholic and believe in Church teachings…there have been mistakes. Would you like me to list them? Reply and I will. This thread is SILLY and does nothing for unity. I already said that there are Catholics and Protestants that are HERETICAL!!!

You are a heretic if you attend the Novus Ordo! Don’t kid yourself. Maybe you need to become more educated in what pre-Vatican II taught and what SSPX still teaches.

If you really want to seek wisdom…then you may have to accept what you don’t like. Unless you are a Traditional Catholic you are a heretic and so am I.

Perhaps you should challenge Fr Serpa on some of his apologetics…PM of course.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’ve seen the argument for ‘different’ Churches used, seemingly to validate the many denominations present today. Catholics argue, one Church, many locations.

It just hit me this evening while reading scriptures, most of the New Testament are letters. Where were those letters written from? From one Church location to another. Different beliefs were not acceptable, as scriptures clearly tell us to be of the same mind and judgment.

This caught my eye as I was reading Paul’s letter to the Corinthians this evening, and it made me think of the above statement.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collections that are made for the saints: as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, so do ye also.

Paul confirms that the same teachings were being given in other places, as if there was one Church, many locations.

Does anyone have a list of where the books of the New Testament were written? By their titles, we know where they were going.

 

[jericho777]

a local congregation? where does it say local congregation?

15 But if your brother shall offend against you, go, and rebuke him between you and him alone. If he shall hear you, you shall gain your brother. 16 And if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to you as the heathen and publican.

So when you have a dispute with a brother you go all the way to Rome to have them settle the dispute?

 

[wisdomseeker]

I’m glad I have your permission to contribute. Now…how do you counter the Orthodox Church which has had no changes in over 1000 years? Ahhhh…the Pope can change what he wants and claim infallibility. Great! While I am Catholic and believe in Church teachings…there have been mistakes. Would you like me to list them? Reply and I will. This thread is SILLY and does nothing for unity. I already said that there are Catholics and Protestants that are HERETICAL!!!

You are a heretic if you attend the Novus Ordo! Don’t kid yourself. Maybe you need to become more educated in what pre-Vatican II taught and what SSPX still teaches.

If you really want to seek wisdom…then you may have to accept what you don’t like. Unless you are a Traditional Catholic you are a heretic and so am I.

Perhaps you should challenge Fr Serpa on some of his apologetics…PM of course.

Again, i am not sure what is the problem wiht you.

apparently you dont believe what the Church teaches. am i right?

15 But if your brother shall offend against you, go, and rebuke him between you and him alone. If he shall hear you, you shall gain your brother. 16 And if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to you as the heathen and publican.

 

[jericho777]

Please read the entire chapter and see specifically who the Lord was speaking too, when He said this.

Like i said in another post Jesus had many disciples.
Jesus normally calls the apostles by number “the twelve“. Jesus had many disciples. Apostles can be disciples but disciples aren’t apostles. The multitudes were not His disciples and were outside the kingdom.

John 6:60-71 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirite and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”
66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
67“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.
68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

John 19:38 Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away.

 

[wisdomseeker]

So when you have a dispute with a brother you go all the way to Rome to have them settle the dispute?

if that would be necessary. it all depends of the situation and the issue.

the CC although spreaded throughout the world, she is One Church.

where does it say local congregation on Mat 15?

**
15 But if your brother shall offend against you, go, and rebuke him between you and him alone. If he shall hear you, you shall gain your brother. 16 And if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to you as the heathen and publican.**