So, i hear...

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spn82756 said:
Not to quit sinning…but with the intent to sin the same sin no more. None of us can ever stop sinning. In many cases not even the same sin. But we are expected to try not to sin.
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I know we are not suppose to continue sinning the same sin, but I have never met anyone who hasn’t
 
I hate to say this, but I read through this entire thread and I totally don’t get the point.:confused::confused:
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The point we were discussing was who the Lord specifically spoke too, at different times. As I posted, and you failed to address, the discussion concerning taking disputes to the Church was spoken only to His ‘disciples’. He repeats His authortative statement of whatsover you bind and loose. Since you ignored the question in a hurry to insinuate something that is not true, I’ll repeat the question.

How do individuals have the authority to ‘bind and loose on earth’?

Another question for you jericho777, who, of apostolic authority, imposed hands upon you to make you a disciple?
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All believers are disciples of Jesus. First the church was not even around. I agree that all disciples would take a disagreement to the church. Unbelievers have no faith in the church. Why would they go there.

If individuals are believers they have the authority. I am a disciple by virtue of belief solely in Christ. You thinking limits the work of God in the life of believers.
 
jericho777 said:
All believers are disciples of Jesus. First the church was not even around. I agree that all disciples would take a disagreement to the church. Unbelievers have no faith in the church. Why would they go there.

If individuals are believers they have the authority. I am a disciple by virtue of belief solely in Christ. You thinking limits the work of God in the life of believers.
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So you’re saying that you have the ability to forgive sins? I don’t think so. Those that have Apostolic succession though Holy Orders do. Not you or I.

I can’t believe it. Some Protestants accuse Catholic and Orthodox priests of forgiving sins when only God can and now you say you have the ability to.

Those ordained forgive sins in the person of Christ. Not of their own ability.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Are you saying the Bible is in contradiction?

Joh 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

**Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. **

See, individually we are to forgive indefinitely, the Church however has a greater authority, or is let him be as a heathen and publican another contradiction?
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According to your interpretation you have created a contradiction on the one hand he can bind and loose but onthe other he is commanded to forgive.

Mat 18:18“I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven

Mat 18:21-22 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.f
 
wisdomseeker said:
a local congregation? where does it say local congregation?

15 But if your brother shall offend against you, go, and rebuke him between you and him alone. If he shall hear you, you shall gain your brother. 16 And if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to you as the heathen and publican.
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Are you thinking it means go to Rome to settle a sin issue?​

BTW, it doesn’t say ‘local church’ nor does it say Catholic Church.
 
spn82756 said:
So you’re saying that you have the ability to forgive sins? I don’t think so. Those that have Apostolic succession though Holy Orders do. Not you or I.

I can’t believe it. Some Protestants accuse Catholic and Orthodox priests of forgiving sins when only God can and now you say you have the ability to.

Those ordained forgive sins in the person of Christ. Not of their own ability.
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My point goes to the authority of the believer and the interpretating of scripture. Not the forgiveness of sins.

This thread is way off the OP 😊
 
jericho777 said:
All believers are disciples of Jesus. First the church was not even around. I agree that all disciples would take a disagreement to the church. Unbelievers have no faith in the church. Why would they go there.

If individuals are believers they have the authority. I am a disciple by virtue of belief solely in Christ. You thinking limits the work of God in the life of believers.
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We are all called to a royal priesthood, to share the Gospel, but that is short of the authority Christ gave to the Apostles, who He appointed.

As Paul said, ‘Are all Apostles?’

Now, if you’re using the term ‘disciple’ to represent ‘believers’, which appears to be a change from the original point you were making, then I can agree that’s what we are to do, if we want to take our brothers that far. With the times we’re supposed to forgive our brothers, we should forgive him and not take a disagreement to that extreme. But, if one does take them to the Church, individuals have no authority over what the Church binds and looses.

The point of our conversation was who was the Lord specifically speaking too? There were times He was instructing His Apostles on doctrines of the Church. That doesn’t mean we can’t learn from reading those things, but we cannot apply everything to us. He didn’t give ALL the keys to the kingdom of heaven, All the authority to bind and loose on earth, and all the authority to forgive or retain sins.

Your original stance was that when Christ spoke to ‘disciples’ it wasn’t for Apostles only, because John said disciples. You haven’t responded to the fact that John never used the term ‘Apostles’. :hmmm:
 
wisdomseeker said:
denigrating other denominations? are you saying that the CC is just another denomination among others?

“the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.”
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Are you purposely trying to be contrary or do are you having a difficult time understanding?
 
wisdomseeker said:
that is why i posted this here. so, we can stablished that the CC is the One Church and only Church of the Bible.

please continue to quote Scriptures on the Church. if you may.

thank you.

**Sirach 50
16 he stretched forth his hand to make a libation, and offered of the blood of the grape. 17 He poured out at the foot of the altar a divine odour to the most high Prince. **
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You may believe your church, the CC, is the one and only true church but that settles (establishes) nothing but that you believe it.
 
Dokimas said:
You may believe your church, the CC, is the one and only true church but that settles (establishes) nothing but that you believe it.
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Dokimas,

Share with us scriptures that show there were ‘different’ Churches then, similar to different denominations as we see today?

As I pointed out earlier, the Churches were started by the Apostles and they wrote letters from one location to another. There were not different doctrines. Paul even wrote in his letter to the Corinthians that the same teachings were being shared with the Galatian Church.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collections that are made for the saints: as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, so do ye also.

I’ve seen Protestants argue that the letters and epistles were widely circulated. Those letters and epistles have the same teachings. If they were truly ‘widely circulated’ how could the teachings have been different.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Dokimas,

Share with us scriptures that show there were ‘different’ Churches then, similar to different denominations as we see today?

As I pointed out earlier, the Churches were started by the Apostles and they wrote letters from one location to another. There were not different doctrines. Paul even wrote in his letter to the Corinthians that the same teachings were being shared with the Galatian Church.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collections that are made for the saints: as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, so do ye also.

I’ve seen Protestants argue that the letters and epistles were widely circulated. Those letters and epistles have the same teachings. If they were truly ‘widely circulated’ how could the teachings have been different.
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As you are well aware, there are no scriptures about different denominations. There are not supposed to be different doctrines. As I’ve discussed, some of the doctrines you believe I can’t find either in the NT. That’s why my position – none of the present day churches should claim they are the one and only church.
 
I think it is because you don’t understand the process of loosing and binding which goes right back to our Jewish roots, and the Keys of the Kingdom

Catholicism like Judaism is a deep religion to be studied, not just fluffed off with a few scriptures here and there
 
jericho777 said:
I believe Christ is present in our communion but you don’t think He’s there.
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Jericho.

this is not just about believing. just because i believe it doesnt make it so.

Jesus built One Church and to her He made promises. He instituted the Eucharist with His Church, the Heavenly Jerusalem. He stablished a Covenant with His chosen people.
while the Jewish priests(highpriest) were slaughting animals for sacrificing at the temple to celebrate the Old Covenant Jesus was stablishing a New Covenant with His Chosen Ones, He(Jesus the Highpriest) was offering His Own Body and Blood for the forgiveness of sins. the same thing that the jews were doing when sacrificing animals for the forgiveness of sins of the jews.
when the pagans wanted to know about God, they would go to the Jews. it would be through the Jews. it is the same. it has not changed. the Church, found by a Jew, it is on this Church that we must receive the Eucharist. He chose us, we didnt choose Him.

reading the Bible and claiming the promises that were made to the Church, is like you are the one choosing.

** “the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.” **
 
Christ is present in our Eucharist because we have Apostolic succession…right back to Peter

The Protestants broke with that

But Christ can be in your heart during your communion, and that is very important too
 
My humble oponion is that I doubt if any Church is what Christ had in mind. We all have to strive to be more Christ like and no Church is going to do that for you. It has to be within you.👍
 
spn82756 said:
So you’re saying that you have the ability to forgive sins? I don’t think so. Those that have Apostolic succession though Holy Orders do. Not you or I.

I can’t believe it. Some Protestants accuse Catholic and Orthodox priests of forgiving sins when only God can and now you say you have the ability to.

Those ordained forgive sins in the person of Christ. Not of their own ability.
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:highprayer::amen:
 
jericho777 said:
According to your interpretation you have created a contradiction on the one hand he can bind and loose but onthe other he is commanded to forgive.

Mat 18:18“I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven

Mat 18:21-22 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.f
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The Church of the Bible has authority from Jesus to forgive sins or retain sins. us the laity must forgive always or our Father will not forgive us. two different things going here. Jesus is given two different command.
**

“the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world.” **
 
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