So, i hear...

[wisdomseeker]

It was amazing reading these posts after only being away for a day. I found this a very interesting thread but made the mistake of making some jabs on the personal level which helps no one. For anyone who has been offended, I apologize. It distracts from the business at hand. I love my Church and will defend it at every turn. Of course there have been changes since the early centuries, but these changes are much like a person who grows throughout life. The appearance may change, but it is still the same person with the same original heart, mind and soul. Hopefully we grow in knowledge and wisdom and try on some new clothes. But we remain the same (original) person.

This will be my last post on this thread. I think it is best that I bow out at his point.

Have fun folks and God bless.

thanks Steve. you did a good job with Scriptures. hope to see you again around here.

blessings

 

[graceandglory]

I have answered this twice now. I must be unclear. ** I said there is NO church, IMO, that is the church that Jesus established.** At best, they (the individual member) are but a part of the Church. In short, I can’t show you or anyone that protestants resembles the Church of the Bible more (or less) than the CC.

Then I guess the gates of hell did prevail, and that would make Jesus a liar. Sad.

 

[Dokimas]

Then I guess the gates of hell did prevail, and that would make Jesus a liar. Sad.

You guessed wrong. The gates of hell have not prevailed and Jesus is not a liar. Guess you didn’t understand my post or you chose to misrepresent it.

 

[humblelurker]

answer this. where did they get these things from? Baptism, faith, the Bible,and whatever.

any Truth they have was taking from the CC. they didnt get from the Apostles themselves like the CC. tell me if they have any Truth that was not taking from the CC.

"Without truth, charity ends up in sentimentalism. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled arbitrarily. It is the fatal risk of love in a culture without truth. It falls prey to the emotions and contingent opinions of the individuals, an abused and distorted word, to the point of signifying the contrary." BXVI

I shouldn’t really be posting due to me being very busy, but…
I was talking to Steve today and I mentioned the fact that nobody has asked where Protestants received Baptism, Bible, etc… from.
Now looking on CAF I noticed your Post.

Great minds think alike.
:clapping:
Very good my friend.
:extrahappy:
I was looking the other day for a quote from Martin Luther about acknowledging where they received the Bible from (for something more concrete), but I couldn’t find it. If you find it please tell me. I still would like it for future reference.
We know the answers to your questions, but can you demonstrate it for our non-Catholic visitors?
Sorry I can’t talk and shouldn’t be posting, and may not be able to respond in the near future…:sad_bye:
Keep me in your prays,
God bless.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I was looking the other day for a quote from Martin Luther about acknowledging where they received the Bible from (for something more concrete), but I couldn’t find it. If you find it please tell me. I still would like it for future reference…

“We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists (Catholics)–that they possess the Word of God which we received from them, otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it.” Martin Luther–Commentary on St. John, ch. 16

 

[Dokimas]

I shouldn’t really be posting due to me being very busy, but…
I was talking to Steve today and I mentioned the fact that nobody has asked where Protestants received Baptism, Bible, etc… from.
Now looking on CAF I noticed your Post.

Great minds think alike.
:clapping:
Very good my friend.
:extrahappy:
I was looking the other day for a quote from Martin Luther about acknowledging where they received the Bible from (for something more concrete), but I couldn’t find it. If you find it please tell me. I still would like it for future reference.
We know the answers to your questions, but can you demonstrate it for our non-Catholic visitors?
Sorry I can’t talk and shouldn’t be posting, and may not be able to respond in the near future…:sad_bye:
Keep me in your prays,
God bless.

Ye, take all the credit for the CC. I’m sure the Holy Spirit doesn’t mind giving praise to another that belongs to Him.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Ye, take all the credit for the CC. I’m sure the Holy Spirit doesn’t mind giving praise to another that belongs to Him.

The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. All credit to His Church is to His Glory.

 

[Dokimas]

The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. All credit to His Church is to His Glory.

I’d agree but in the discussion prior to my post, I saw the CC did this and the CC did that and I saw NOTHING about the Holy Spirit.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’d agree but in the discussion prior to my post, I saw the CC did this and the CC did that and I saw NOTHING about the Holy Spirit.

It’s bad what we take for granted in order to give expedient responses.

The Catholic Church did this, through the power of the Holy Spirit and the Catholic Church did that, through the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dokimas]

It’s bad what we take for granted in order to give expedient responses.

The Catholic Church did this, through the power of the Holy Spirit and the Catholic Church did that, through the power of the Holy Spirit.

It serves you better to just say the Holy Spirit did it and we were the sinful vessels He used.

 

[Dokimas]

It’s bad what we take for granted in order to give expedient responses.

The Catholic Church did this, through the power of the Holy Spirit and the Catholic Church did that, through the power of the Holy Spirit.

The way you put it, the CC shares the glory with God. Don’t you have a problem with that?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It serves you better to just say the Holy Spirit did it and we were the sinful vessels He used.

See, we truly believe Christ, the Son, built a Church with His authority, from the Father, and He protects that Church, with the Holy Spirit. The Church in itself is not a sinful vessel, now if we could say that about those members of the Church…

Haven’t you seen me say, the Bible was written by fallible men, the canon of the New Testament was defined by fallible men, the puncuation and numbers were added by fallible men, the Bible was translated by fallible men, the Bible was preserved by fallible men and the Bible is interpreted by fallible men? Those fallible men were sinful vessels…

I know you’ve seen my argument that Jesus showed confidence, through His teaching, that God’s truth could be protected through sinful men. We can have confidence in His word.

**Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not. **

 

[Dokimas]

Prodigal Son1: black; Doki: drk red

See, we truly believe Christ, the Son, built a Church with His authority, from the Father, and He protects that Church, with the Holy Spirit. So do I. The Church in itself is not a sinful vessel because the church is people, then by extension, it has sin inside it, now if we could say that about those members of the Church…

Haven’t you seen me say, the Bible was written by fallible men, the canon of the New Testament was defined by fallible men, the puncuation and numbers were added by fallible men, the Bible was translated by fallible men, the Bible was preserved by fallible men and the Bible is interpreted by fallible men? Those fallible men were sinful vessels…

I know you’ve seen my argument that Jesus showed confidence, through His teaching, that God’s truth could be protected through sinful men. We can have confidence in His word.

**Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not. **

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal Son1: black; Doki: drk red

See, we truly believe Christ, the Son, built a Church with His authority, from the Father, and He protects that Church, with the Holy Spirit. So do I. The Church in itself is not a sinful vessel because the church is people, then by extension, it has sin inside it, now if we could say that about those members of the Church…
Haven’t you seen me say, the Bible was written by fallible men, the canon of the New Testament was defined by fallible men, the puncuation and numbers were added by fallible men, the Bible was translated by fallible men, the Bible was preserved by fallible men and the Bible is interpreted by fallible men? Those fallible men were sinful vessels…

I know you’ve seen my argument that Jesus showed confidence, through His teaching, that God’s truth could be protected through sinful men. We can have confidence in His word.

**Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not. **

 

[raggetyann]

******Protestants accused the CC of not being the same as the Church of the Bible.

So, protestants can you show us how your congregations resemble the Church of the Bible?

everyone of board! with love and charity, let’s reason.**

**St. Clement of Rome

[47, 6] Shameful, beloved, extremely shameful, and unworthy of your training in Christ, is the report that on account of one or two persons the well established and ancient Church of the Corinthians is in revolt against the presbyters. And this report has come not only to us, but even to those professing other faiths than ours, so that by your folly you heap blasphemies on the name of the Lord, and create a danger for yourselves.**

Hello, wisdomseeker, I really would like to say that from my point of view their are NO churches that are the right one or from the bible, now i think the real church of Christ is very small and unnoticed, doing all what is according to the word of God, Love does not seek her own, read 1st Corinthians 13 and you will find the real church of God.raggetyann

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Hello, wisdomseeker, I really would like to say that from my point of view their are NO churches that are the right one or from the bible, now i think the real church of Christ is very small and unnoticed, doing all what is according to the word of God, Love does not seek her own, read 1st Corinthians 13 and you will find the real church of God.raggetyann

A Church that Christ built and commissioned to go out to all Nations, and no longer under persecution is very small and unnoticed?

Another point is 1 Corinthians 13 is a very small passage from a much larger story when read in context of 1 Corinthians.

 

[graceandglory]

You guessed wrong. The gates of hell have not prevailed and Jesus is not a liar. Guess you didn’t understand my post or you chose to misrepresent it.

Dear Dokimas,
Just for the record,
I’m ashamed at my post.
I went back to delete it right after posting, then my comp went on the fritz.

 

[wisdomseeker]

It serves you better to just say the Holy Spirit did it and we were the sinful vessels He used.

it would be ok to say this, but we are not talking specificaly about the HS. we are talking about the Church. the HS is the Soul of the Church. contrary to what you believe which there is no Church, we know that Jesus built a Church, notice that i said, we know.

the sinful vessels are guided by the Church of Christ and not by the HS alone like you believe. the HS guides the Church and the Church guides us.

since you dont believe in teh Church, you resort to the HS alone guiding everyone to enterpret Scriptures on their own. but nowhere in Scriptures you can find the promise that the HS is to guide individuals to enterpret Scriptures on their own. nowhere.

**
“Without truth, charity ends up in sentimentalism. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled arbitrarily. It is the fatal risk of love in a culture without truth. It falls prey to the emotions and contingent opinions of the individuals, an abused and distorted word, to the point of signifying the contrary.” BXVI **

 

[wisdomseeker]

I shouldn’t really be posting due to me being very busy, but…
I was talking to Steve today and I mentioned the fact that nobody has asked where Protestants received Baptism, Bible, etc… from.
Now looking on CAF I noticed your Post.

Great minds think alike.
:clapping:
Very good my friend.
:extrahappy:
I was looking the other day for a quote from Martin Luther about acknowledging where they received the Bible from (for something more concrete), but I couldn’t find it. If you find it please tell me. I still would like it for future reference.
We know the answers to your questions, but can you demonstrate it for our non-Catholic visitors?
Sorry I can’t talk and shouldn’t be posting, and may not be able to respond in the near future…:sad_bye:
Keep me in your prays,
God bless.

“This one will not hear of Baptism, and that one denies the sacrament, another puts a world between this and the last day: some teach that Christ is not God, some say this, some say that: there are as many sects and creeds as there are heads. No yokel is so rude but when he has dreams and fancies, he thinks himself inspired by the Holy Ghost and must be a prophet.”
De Wette III, 61. quoted in O’Hare, THE FACTS ABOUT LUTHER, 208.

“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.”
Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O’Hare, Ibid, 209.

“We concede – as we must – that so much of what they (the Catholic Church) say is true: that the papacy has God’s word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?”
Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 - 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of LUTHER’S WORKS, St. Louis, Mo.: Concordia, 1961, 304.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Ye, take all the credit for the CC. I’m sure the Holy Spirit doesn’t mind giving praise to another that belongs to Him.

Jesus died for His Church. do you think this counts for anything?

And He said to His disciples, “It is impossible that scandals should not come; but woe to him through whom they come.”
Luke 17:1