So I ordered a New Jerusalem Bible

[Deczynski]

I have a few priest friends who are very Catholic scripture scholars; They are on the Pontifical Biblical Commission, appointed to that position by the present Holy Father, Benedict XVI. All four of them strongly support the NJB (Study Edition) as not only readible but scholarly and very accurately translated. These priests use this translation themselves for both prayer and serious study. I wil go with their expertise.
Vladimir Deczynski

 

[danny_jones]

After using the Good News Bible all the time I decided I needed a change. The language of the Good News Bible was just too simple without much substance for me. So I ordered a New Jerusalem Bible. What are your opinions on the New Jerusalem Bible, the advantages and disadvantages? Thanks

the new jersalem bible like most bibles is only as good as your state of mind when you are reading it . ask the holy spirit to help you to understand amd he will

 

[puzzleannie]

After using the Good News Bible all the time I decided I needed a change. The language of the Good News Bible was just too simple without much substance for me. So I ordered a New Jerusalem Bible. What are your opinions on the New Jerusalem Bible, the advantages and disadvantages? Thanks

it is approved for Catholics, it is the choice for the lectionary in many countries, so if you like it, and it is the one you will read, go for it. my preference remains for the original, esp. for the gospels, just for the poetic rendering of the language, so different from the standard American business-like NAB

 

[Pookie_Dupre]

Jayk15, I believe, I read all the post in this thread … and no mention or the fact that “The Jerusalem Bible” and “The NEW Jerusalem Bible” are not the same! I have a “The Jerusalem Bible” and bought one for each of my children … until I got to my youngest of the four of them and could no longer purchase “The Jerusalem Bible” and had to get her “The NEW Jerusalem Bible”. There is indeed a difference! I own the 1966 translation from French … I love it … it has the best cross-reference and footnotes EVER! The footnotes are set up so that a particular Scripture and references are complete lessons stated in the footnotes. I have studied with this Bible for 31 years … it has stood by me through all apologetics in many forums.

I own several Bibles all of which have a story behind them [but that is for another post] … I own a KJV {very old one, my mother gave it to me in 1955}; Confraternity Version {© 1950, 1958, 1961}; The Jerusalem Bible {© 1966}; The New Catholic Answer Bible {NAB © 1997}; The Catholic Rainbow Study Bible {© 1993}. All of which I use for different purposes. My husband recently bought me the “Rainbow Bible” because I wanted it so desperately!! I do not care for the NAB … when reading it, I always end up saying “HUH?” … It reminds me of Charlie Browns parents, “wah,wah,wah” … who knows what that means! The “Rainbow” is written in simplification to the point that is is comprehensible by persons with only a FOURTH GRADE education. I love it because when I pray it I know exactly in my heart and mind what I am reading and I do not have to stop and consider what it is that I just voiced … It flows like a prayer book … I adore it and use it to read in mass … because I get so deep into the mass that I do not want to break with my meditation to have to think … and I find I am well versed and more prepared for the homily!!

The New Catholic Answer Bible is excellent to all apologetic questions … answers, and Catechism references … however, I use The Jerusalem Bible in preference to the NAB to read the Scripture and study the specific apologetic lesson!!

The Jerusalem Bible is a better reference and study bible than The New Jerusalem Bible! However, I am living proof, that you can take a book and make it work for you in your study and prayer!! Good luck to you!! God bless.

Respectfully, Pookie.

 

[alphar108]

After using the Good News Bible all the time I decided I needed a change. The language of the Good News Bible was just too simple without much substance for me. So I ordered a New Jerusalem Bible. What are your opinions on the New Jerusalem Bible, the advantages and disadvantages? Thanks

I have used the Jerusalem Bible since 1974. It is not only a very accurate translation, absent of “political correctness”, but the footnotes provide EXCELLENT teaching resources.

 

[Mattjolley]

I’m in agreeance with what seems to be the general concensus, the ORIGINAL Jerusalem Bible is the best to go with (out of the two!) It uses Non-Inclusive language and good notes. I believe it was the first exclusively Catholic Translation to come directly from the original languages. Although, I think in some places the French was consulted to aid translation, but overall they went straight from the original texts.

The original JB with full notes is very tricky to find in good condition! It comes up on eBay now and then. I believe DLT, the publishers, would benefit from publishing it again but they obviously have a vested interest in marketing the New Jerusalem Bible in the same way the USCCB have with the NAB

If you have a qualm with the JB rendering of God’s name as Yahweh, then the CTS bible could be good for you! Original ‘Jerusalem’ text with none-inclusive language and ‘Yahweh’ replaced with ‘LORD’ throughout. Also uses the Grail Psalms, not the original Jerusalem.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Matt Jolley,

**You wrote: ** *I’m in agree[ment] with what seems to be the general concensus, the ORIGINAL Jerusalem Bible is the best to go with (out of the two!) It uses Non-Inclusive language and good notes. I believe it was the first exclusively Catholic Translation to come directly from the original languages. Although, I think in some places the French was consulted to aid translation, but overall they went straight from the original texts… If you have a qualm with the JB rendering of God’s name as Yahweh, then the CTS bible could be good for you! Original ‘Jerusalem’ text with none-inclusive language and ‘Yahweh’ replaced with ‘LORD’ throughout. Also uses the Grail Psalms, not the original Jerusalem. *​

I had been led to understand that the Jerusalem Bible (J.B.) in its original form was better for the Old Testament and the New Jerusalem Bible (N.J.B.) superior, despite some Inclusive Language, for the New Testament. This concerns the integrity of the readings themselves in conforming to sounder Hebrew and Greek underlying texts. Does this seem true to you?

I very much like both the J.B. and the N.J.B., despite their tendency to paraphrase rather than to translate outrightly (but, on the other hand, the paraphrasing avoids the wildly or just stick-out atrocities of other Bibles which paraphrase entirely or in part).

I am intrigued to see the C.T.S. edition that you mention! I just cringe at the use of “Yahweh” for the name of the Godhead in the J.B. and the N.J.B. It sounds so unnecessarily foreign to English, and the endless use of “Yahweh” in the J.B. and the N.J.B. makes them tiresome to the ear and too pedantic in tone.

Is the Grail Psalter a real alternative? Versions published for liturgical use often are too loose in their renderings for Bible study. Is this the case with the Grail Psalter?

Thanks for your comments!

Jerry Parker

 

[Mattjolley]

I like the Grail Psalter. Doesn’t the U.S ise it in the lectionary? In the Uk it’s used in the mass and also the LOTH. Its very good to sing, infact it may have been translated with chanting/singing in consideration. It is definaterly not inclusive, thats for sure.

 

[Tomb54]

I have the NJB and while I am not wild about it, I think it will do until Dr Hahn’s group comes out with the Ignatius Study Bible (NT only so far and next year I think). Heard it is supposed to be pretty good so I want to see it before I look at others.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Matt Jolley,

**You wrote: ** *I like the Grail Psalter. Doesn’t the U.S ise it in the lectionary? In the Uk it’s used in the mass and also the LOTH. Its very good to sing, infact it may have been translated with chanting/singing in consideration. It is definaterly not inclusive, thats for sure. *​

Thanks for commenting on the Grail Psalter. I have a copy of it somewhere amongst my many books, so many of which I have yet to unpack since my move to Rouyn-Noranda, but I never have studied it textually; I did notice, when I first obtained my copy of its U.K. edition, the Grail Psalter’s musicality, something that I greatly appreciate in any Psalter.

As to its liturgical use in the U. S. of A., I cannot reply to that question from my own experience. I live in French Canada and our own Canadian bishops determine such matters. for both of Canada’s official languages (English and French) regarding lectionaries, Mass texts (hereabouts, in French, anyway!), often rather differently for Anglo-Canadians than for English users in Gringhistan (“Land of the Gringos”, i.e. the U. S. of A.) and, needless to say, where French texts prevail such English lectionary and liturgical language questions are irrelevant in local practice.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[Mattjolley]

so if you’re in French speaking parts of Canada you have to suffice with a French mass? No provision for the English-speaking population? That’s tough

You know, the other day, I wondered what bible versions other European countries use. I’m guessing France uses the original Bible de Jérusalem for example.

But I am also wondering what version places such as Germany use, and if they have various translations which are held in various states of esteem, like in the UK and USA where we discuss the various translations and their individual merits. Something I haven’t pondered before!

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Matt Jolley,

**You wrote: ** *So if you’re in French speaking parts of Canada you have to suffice with a French mass? No provision for the English-speaking population? That’s tough

I got myself thinking the other day, I wondered what Bible versions other European countries use. I’m guessing France uses the original Jerusalem Bible, the French version obviously. But I wondered what places such as Germany use, and if they have various translations which are held in various states of esteem, like in the UK and USA. Something I haven’t pondered before! *​

I did not mean to convey the impression that there is no English Novus Ordo Mass in Québec! There is, even here in Rouyn-Noranda, which is between 95 to 100 percent French-speaking. The Mass in English is offered at Blessed Sacrament Church parish (the only Anglophone one) here, but due to a combination of its timing, bus schedules, and my physical condition, I cannot get to Mass there, so I assist at Mass in French.

The Jerusalem Bible in French has undergone several revisions, which, I think, have tended to improve it; the first Bible de Jérusalem, the French prototype for similarly named Bibles in other languages, was too archly mannered and too self-consciously (and rather absurdly) highbrow to have much appeal (a fault which did not plague the English-language Jerusalem Bible), so it has been revised in more readable and *genuinely *literary French. I do not know which Catholic version is that of the lectionary in France, but most likely it would be either an edition of the Bible de Jérusalem or the T.O.B. The Jerusalem Bible does exist in German, Spanish, and probably in other languages of which I have not yet seen editions; I read many languages with various degrees of fluency. As to whether it is a translation of choice for lectionaries in Germany and elsewhere, I don’t know.

Here in Québec, the lectionary preference is the “Bible T.O.B.” (the abbreviation being for the “Traduction oecuménique de la Bible”), which also has its equivalents in other languages, German included (I think), although I have not come across copies of the T.O.B. Bible in such languages. There is a fine Catholic adaptation of the standard 1910 revised Louis Segond Protestant translation, which adds the deutero-canonical writings from the literary classic and Catholic translation of the Bible by Louis-Isaac Lemaistre de Sacy (Maxi-Livres or Succès du livre, both in the series, “Maxi-Poches: Sagesse”, and both bearing the ISBN 2-74343148-2), very inexpensive but attractive, in paperback, but which has not been adopted so far as I know for liturgical use. Other French translations have come and gone over the years for official Catholic use here in Québec, of which the Bible de Maredsous is one that many Catholics cherish, but whose literary beauty is offset by its resort too pervasively to paraphrase. My own favourite Catholic French Bibles are the mentioned Louis Segond Cathoicised edition and, especially, the great old Lemaistre de Sacy translation.

I hope that this helps!

Jerry Parker

 

[Mattjolley]

wow, thanks for that. Very interesting stuff!

 

[CalCatholic]

I like the Grail Psalter. Doesn’t the U.S ise it in the lectionary? In the Uk it’s used in the mass and also the LOTH. Its very good to sing, infact it may have been translated with chanting/singing in consideration. It is definaterly not inclusive, thats for sure.

In the USA, we use the Grail Psalter in the Liturgy of the Hours. The NAB (1970) version of the Psalms are used in the Mass (because they do not use inclusive language as do the 1991 version of the NAB Psalms). The english version of the Roman Missal in the USA is being revised and next year we will begin using a new revised version of the Grail Psalms in the MASS, instead of the old NAB ones.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Cal and Matt Jolley,

You wrote: ****Mattjolley: *** I like the Grail Psalter. Doesn’t the U.S ise it in the lectionary? In the Uk it’s used in the mass and also the LOTH. Its very good to sing, infact it may have been translated with chanting/singing in consideration. It is definaterly not inclusive, thats for sure.

Cal: In the USA, we use the Grail Psalter in the Liturgy of the Hours. The NAB (1970) version of the Psalms are used in the Mass (because they do not use inclusive language as do the 1991 version of the NAB Psalms). The English version of the Roman Missal in the USA is being revised and next year we will begin using a new revised version of the Grail Psalms in the MASS, instead of the old NAB ones.​

I tried to track down the Jeruslamen Bible with Grail Psalter substituting therein for the Psalms, but I only came across a lectionary (3 v.) that had that combination. Was the J.B. (with LORD instead of Yahweh) really published with Grail Psalms as a Bible per se?

Jerry Parker*

 

[CalCatholic]

Cal and Matt Jolley,

You wrote: ****Mattjolley: **** I like the Grail Psalter. Doesn’t the U.S ise it in the lectionary? In the Uk it’s used in the mass and also the LOTH. Its very good to sing, infact it may have been translated with chanting/singing in consideration. It is definaterly not inclusive, thats for sure.

Cal: In the USA, we use the Grail Psalter in the Liturgy of the Hours. The NAB (1970) version of the Psalms are used in the Mass (because they do not use inclusive language as do the 1991 version of the NAB Psalms). The English version of the Roman Missal in the USA is being revised and next year we will begin using a new revised version of the Grail Psalms in the MASS, instead of the old NAB ones.​

I tried to track down the Jeruslamen Bible with Grail Psalter substituting therein for the Psalms, but I only came across a lectionary (3 v.) that had that combination. Was the J.B. (with LORD instead of Yahweh) really published with Grail Psalms as a Bible per se?

Jerry Parker

Yes, it is published in England by the ‘Catholic Truth Society’ (CTS) and is titled "The CTS New Catholic Bible.’ It is a compact (71/2 x 5 x 2 inches) and comes in a leather wrapped hardback (presentation edition). It has The Jerusalem Bible text with ‘Lord’ substituted for ‘Yahweh’ and it does use the Grail Psalms.This Bible has new Chapter introductions and new shorter and concise notes. The 'presentation edition comes with gold guilded pages, 3 ribbon markers. It has only 4 maps (which are in the inside of the front and rear covers of the Bible. It has a list of scripture reading for the daily and Sunday Masses.
The font size is about 8 (a little small for my eyes) and the verses are in the single column form as in the orginal Jerusalem Bible. The ISBN# is: 978 1 86082 469 2 (presentation edition). Their website is: www.cts-online.org.uk/acatalog/Our_Products_Bibles_18.html

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Matt Jolley,

**We had written: ** **Jerry: I tried to track down the Jeruslamen Bible with Grail Psalter substituting therein for the Psalms, but I only came across a lectionary (3 v.) that had that combination. Was the J.B. (with LORD instead of Yahweh) really published with Grail Psalms as a Bible per se?

**Matt: **Yes, it is published in England by the ‘Catholic Truth Society’ (CTS) and is titled "The CTS New Catholic Bible.’ It is a compact (71/2 x 5 x 2 inches) and comes in a leather wrapped hardback (presentation edition). It has The Jerusalem Bible text with ‘Lord’ substituted for ‘Yahweh’ and it does use the Grail Psalms.This Bible has new Chapter introductions and new shorter and concise notes. The 'presentation edition comes with gold guilded pages, 3 ribbon markers. It has only 4 maps (which are in the inside of the front and rear covers of the Bible. It has a list of scripture reading for the daily and Sunday Masses.

The font size is about 8 (a little small for my eyes) and the verses are in the single column form as in the orginal Jerusalem Bible. The ISBN# is: 978 1 86082 469 2 (presentation edition). Their website is: cts-online.org.uk/acatalo…Bibles_18.html​

Thanks for that detailed and explicit information. It so helps to have the title page wording, and, even more, the ISBN. I’ll seek this edition out. Neither the J.B. nor the N.J.B. is my Bible of first (or even second) resort, but I do refer to it often, and it will be so nice to have that tatty “Yahweh” stuff edited out for the far better option “LORD”.

Jerry Parker**

 

[numealinesimpet]

I like the Grail Psalter. Doesn’t the U.S ise it in the lectionary? In the Uk it’s used in the mass and also the LOTH. Its very good to sing, infact it may have been translated with chanting/singing in consideration. It is definaterly not inclusive, thats for sure.

I’m no scriptural expert, but when the Grail first came out I remember hearing that the translation preserved the metre of the actual Hebrew. The translators tried to keep the meaning faithful, while keeping the metre. More “exact” translations in English are much wordier than the Hebrew, & completely spoil the rhythm of the original.
Can anyone corroborate this?

 

[numealinesimpet]

In the Hebrew, Isaiah 7:14 should read “young woman”

The Hebrew language is in general not as precise in the range of meanings of its words as is the Greek. The Hebrew ‘almah’ means a young woman, but it is assumed she is a virgin. So it cannot be used to contradict the Catholic interpretation – not to mention the Septuagint. The Greek ‘parthenos’ does explicitly mean what we mean by ‘a virgin’.
In the same way, to translate “A virgin will conceive” is not unfaithful to the meaning, even though the Hebrew has “the virgin”. this is a common trick of Hebrew – as when Noah opens “the” window of the ark. It doesn’t mean there was only one window: it means “the window I’m talking about” And the same for “‘The’ virgin I’m telling you about”.

The Greek word is ἐκκλησία literally “assembly” so while the word “community” isn’t prefered, it’s correct.

I thought it meant “chosen” or “selected out”. “The Elect”.

However, ἐκκλησία is ecclesiam is the Latin Vulgate,
ecclesiam means church!

Well, it’s just the Greek word taken straight over into Latin, with the ending changed to suit Latin Grammar. Surely the meaning is therefore identical with the Greek?

 

[garysibio]

The Hebrew language is in general not as precise in the range of meanings of its words as is the Greek. The Hebrew ‘almah’ means a young woman, but it is assumed she is a virgin. So it cannot be used to contradict the Catholic interpretation – not to mention the Septuagint. The Greek ‘parthenos’ does explicitly mean what we mean by ‘a virgin’.
In the same way, to translate “A virgin will conceive” is not unfaithful to the meaning, even though the Hebrew has “the virgin”. this is a common trick of Hebrew – as when Noah opens “the” window of the ark. It doesn’t mean there was only one window: it means “the window I’m talking about” And the same for “‘The’ virgin I’m telling you about”.

That’s why I like the NJB’s use of ‘maiden.’ A young woman, who is also a virgin.