So, I'm bisexual, and I have a few questions

[edwest2]

“I’ll try to be quick before the Conservative, anti-gay Trump Supporters get here.” Post #2

Not a good way to start a post read by a wide range of people.

Ed

 

[frobert]

I’ll try to be quick before the Conservative, anti-gay Trump Supporters get here.

1. From my understanding, the Church Condemns all Homosexual acts and relationships.

Because of how specific you are getting, I strongly recommend you talk to a Priest that you know and pose these questions to him.

This site is mainly Conservative, so any minute now, I expect that many will be yelling at you about your orientation.

I am more then willing to talk with you more via PMs, but I doubt we would be able to have a proper discussion here as I can already imagine the hateful replies you may get.

:thumbsup:Good insight and advice.

 

[aljay8011]

Hi!
I’ve known since late 2013 that I was bisexual, and the next year I felt attracted to someone of the same sex as me. However, I never really tried to ask her on a date, though. She did not return the feelings, and I know since 2016 that homosexual acts are wrong.

With that said, two months ago I went to Guadalajara, and felt attracted to someone of the same sex again. She’s a waitress in a restaurant, and I felt we kinda felt attracted to each other, I could see in her body language. But then I realized that I felt “manly” thinking about having a romantic relationship with her, which I assumed was bad, since we’re both of the same sex and it’s not fair that I get that feeling (I assume I get that feeling because I’m taller than her).

I have followed the Church’s teachings since last year, but I wonder if I would be sinning if I ever get into a romantic same-sex relationship. My idea is that we would not be having sex or stimulate each other, but it would be kinda like a platonic friendship, except with romantic feelings that will never go too far to be considered sexual.

I’d like to say is that my mom is not really open to the idea that I’m bisexual. My father is more accepting if I ever come out as bisexual, but even I’m not sure what she would think if she finds out I’m bisexual. She knows that I said to my friends that I liked a girl back in 2014, and she looked disappointed and sad, but I later told her that it was a rumour. She tells me I can trust her in anything, and yet I can’t tell her I’m bisexual because of the reaction I might get from her.

Also, last year someone who was a lesbian (now bisexual like me) confessed that she liked me, and long story short, it didn’t go so well, since I only saw her as a friend and nothing else (I did a couple of bad things too, though). She masturbated thinking about me, but she has apologized for doing that ever since. Still, she can be overly jealous and desperate, and she also tried to convince me by using male pronouns for herself, and dressing like a boy would do. I haven’t talked to her since January of this year, my mom told me to block her off my FB.

So, in summary, I’m asking this:

1. If I enter a romantic same sex relationship, and we both agree to not do any sexual acts but be together, would that be alright?
2. What do you think about the “manly” feeling I felt? Maybe same-sex attracted Catholics may know what I’m talking about when feeling “manly” or “girly” (which I have also felt when I like someone of the opposite sex).
3. Since my mom will most likely think I’m a failure for liking both boys AND girls, how can I trust her when her opinion on LGBT people is probably negative, especially because of the lesbian who wanted me as her girlfriend?
4. How can I properly reject any boy/girl that wishes to be my boy/girlfriend?
5. What can I do when any boy/girl that I reject insists on going out with me? Should I talk to them, get away, get help, etc.?

I personally applaud you for being so in tune with not only your own feelings about sexuality at your age, but where the Catholic Church stands on the matter. I must admit that I’ve been bisexual all my life, more recently gay-leaning. I have attempted to be chaste so as to keep within the confines of the religion, but there are times that one cannot escape the temptations. And therein lies my recent struggles.

I diligently pray to have these feelings removed, and receive some relief. But eventually, those feelings come back. It’s a constant battle and almost feels like a punishment of sorts, having a burning desire and unable to have it.

I have no answers, but do suggest the power of prayer and perseverance to see it through. It’s still a very real daily struggle for me (being in love with SSA) and not acting on it for the past 4 years becomes almost unbearable. These are the times I pray more fervently.

I wish you the best in your struggles and God’s grace and mercy on you and all of us in similar situations.

 

[aljay8011]

OP:
I strongly suggest you watch the video: The Desire of the Everlasting Hills:

everlastinghills.org/movie/

It’s a candid look at what Catholics with SSA go through, and how they live now their lives through the lens of what the Church teaches. It is excellent. About an hour…please watch it.
There’s much to think about.
I’ll pray for you.

Thank you for this link. I will watch it tonight.

 

[spiderweb]

I would just say, as many others already have, to talk to a priest. But I would just add one additional thought. While every priest that I have every talked to about private and very personal issues has been understanding and tried to be helpful, there was one that just didn’t seem to know where to begin in being helpful. On a human level, not every priest is equal in their counseling or giving spiritual direction. If you do talk to a priest and this seems to be the case, don’t be discouraged, talk to another one.

It may even be helpful to talk to several, and then choose the one that you are the most comfortable with, and most importantly, that he is faithful to the teachings of the Church. You do not want a priest who will lead you down the wrong path for whatever reason, and neither should you accept anything less than the Truth spoken in Love.

 

[Lucretius]

Considering how St. Francis basically had romances with inanimate objects, I don’t see anything wrong inherently with romantic friendships. David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi, as well as Basil and Gregory, had relationships like this, and this seems like what the Adelphopoiesis ritual is about.

We Catholics also recognize a thing called celibate marriage, which is the kind of relationship the Blessed Mother had with St. Joseph, or what Sts. Louis Martin and Marie-Azélie Guérin tried to do for a time, and what many Christian married couples in the past did in old age, deciding to become emuchs for the Kingdom after passing childbearing age.

I think the key is express your romantic feelings or “energy” in a way that is not sinful or might lead to sin down the road. I’ll say it again: I think the key is express your romantic feelings or “energy” in a way that is not sinful or might lead to sin down the road.

If you think you can express your sexual energy, long-term, in a way that is not sinful and won’t leave you feeling empty and wanting to move towards homosexual behaviors, I don’t see any issues. This is important: if you view this as a sexual relationship without the sex, you will probably feel like the relationship is always incomplete in some way, and be tempted to move towards homosexual acts. The kind of relationship you want to aim for is one that is deep and intense emotional, a love that is fulfillingly expressed in a way that doesn’t involve sexual kissing, sexual touching, etc., or would eventually lead to these. You must not feel like the relationship is not complete without sexual activity, otherwise you are setting yourself up either to sin or be unfulfilled in the long term.

You might want to look into how priests, monks, and nuns channel their sexual energy in productive and fulfilling ways.

I also want you to think about how sexual relationships are fundementally unable to be shared with others, while chaste friendships can be, as well as how a married person can potentially have this kind of relationship with someone they are not married too.

You might also want to read and think about this: beatushomo.blogspot.com/2013/02/chastity-part-four-friends.html

I want to finish with a reminder that these kind of bisexual feelings, especially for girls, tend to appear around puberty and tend to fade when a man becomes the object of your romantic and erotic feelings. Here’s an article about these kind of relationships: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_friendship

What’s interesting is that outside the West, these kinds of relationship are actually quite common, and that only Western people tend to view romantic feelings as necessarily coupled to and expressed in sexual acts (cough cough John Boswell cough cough ).

Christi pax.

 

[Lucretius]

Indeed, many Christians DO find “dating” to be a near occasion of sin and support “courtship” instead, and some models of courtship come very close to arranged marriage by actively discouraging not only physical but emotional intimacy as well. The ideal is often to “dispassionately determine if this person is a worthy spouse” and to only allow oneself to become emotionally attached once they determine the person is worthy, though many will allow for this to start at engagement…

There is something disturbing and, honestly, phonie and fake about what is usually called “courtship” in the US. I saw an article a couple years ago on a blog I used to follow that I think gets to the heart of the issue:

Apparently, there’s a trend in devout Christian circles to turn any form ofdating*- which should be a casual and fun way of getting to learn about the opposite sex - into super-serious “courtship”, which is not exactly courtship, but an obsessive-compulsive attempt to drain desire, affection and fun of anything spontaneous. This is clearly a reaction against the sexual hook-up culture, but one wonders which is worse - the disease or the cure.

I recommend thinking about the whole article: thwordinc.blogspot.com/2014/08/christian-courtship-and-neurosis.html

many Indian cultures that expect the couple to fall in love AFTER the wedding.

This is a simple yet impressive expression of the ideal aim of many arranged marriages

You apparently are unfamiliar then with terms such as heteroromantic asexuals, homoromantic asexuals and biromantic asexuals. There is more to romance than jumping into bed for sex with someone. So no, romantic feelings or a romantic relationship does not necessarily always incline persons to sexual acts.

I understand the concepts, but man do these labels look stupid. Biromantic? Just shoot me now

Christi pax.

 

[Memaw]

Considering how St. Francis basically had romances with inanimate objects, I don’t see anything wrong inherently with romantic friendships. David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi, as well as Basil and Gregory, had relationships like this, and this seems like what the Adelphopoiesis ritual is about.

We Catholics also recognize a thing called celibate marriage, which is the kind of relationship the Blessed Mother had with St. Joseph, or what Sts. Louis Martin and Marie-Azélie Guérin tried to do for a time, and what many Christian married couples in the past did in old age, deciding to become emuchs for the Kingdom after passing childbearing age.

I think the key is express your romantic feelings or “energy” in a way that is not sinful or might lead to sin down the road. I’ll say it again: I think the key is express your romantic feelings or “energy” in a way that is not sinful or might lead to sin down the road.

If you think you can express your sexual energy, long-term, in a way that is not sinful and won’t leave you feeling empty and wanting to move towards homosexual behaviors, I don’t see any issues. This is important: if you view this as a sexual relationship without the sex, you will probably feel like the relationship is always incomplete in some way, and be tempted to move towards homosexual acts. The kind of relationship you want to aim for is one that is deep and intense emotional, a love that is fulfillingly expressed in a way that doesn’t involve sexual kissing, sexual touching, etc., or would eventually lead to these. You must not feel like the relationship is not complete without sexual activity, otherwise you are setting yourself up either to sin or be unfulfilled in the long term.

You might want to look into how priests, monks, and nuns channel their sexual energy in productive and fulfilling ways.

I also want you to think about how sexual relationships are fundementally unable to be shared with others, while chaste friendships can be, as well as how a married person can potentially have this kind of relationship with someone they are not married too.

You might also want to read and think about this: beatushomo.blogspot.com/2013/02/chastity-part-four-friends.html

I want to finish with a reminder that these kind of bisexual feelings, especially for girls, tend to appear around puberty and tend to fade when a man becomes the object of your romantic and erotic feelings. Here’s an article about these kind of relationships: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_friendship

What’s interesting is that outside the West, these kinds of relationship are actually quite common, and that only Western people tend to view romantic feelings as necessarily coupled to and expressed in sexual acts (cough cough John Boswell cough cough ).

Christi pax.

I don’t recall St. Francis ever basically (or otherwise) having “romances” with inanimate objects. To say you love something does not mean romance. I love thunder, what do you think that means?? We experts need to be very careful what kind of advice we give, we may be responsible for misguiding someone. I still think it’s best to talk to a priest and let him guide the situation. God Bless, Memaw

 

[edwest2]

There is something disturbing and, honestly, phonie and fake about what is usually called “courtship” in the US. I saw an article a couple years ago on a blog I used to follow that I think gets to the heart of the issue:

Apparently, there’s a trend in devout Christian circles to turn any form ofdating*- which should be a casual and fun way of getting to learn about the opposite sex - into super-serious “courtship”, which is not exactly courtship, but an obsessive-compulsive attempt to drain desire, affection and fun of anything spontaneous. This is clearly a reaction against the sexual hook-up culture, but one wonders which is worse - the disease or the cure.

I recommend thinking about the whole article: thwordinc.blogspot.com/2014/08/christian-courtship-and-neurosis.html

This is a simple yet impressive expression of the ideal aim of many arranged marriages

I understand the concepts, but man do these labels look stupid. Biromantic? Just shoot me now

Christi pax.

Real courtship is part of a process.

1. You meet some, in my case, young ladies. You spend some time with them. A few you ask on a date.
2. No pressure, nothing super serious, it’s just “let’s have fun.”
3. Then you may become friends. But, unlike the others, this one has so many qualities you like and she feels the same. You spend more time together. You earn each other’s trust. Then, if willing, you choose each other.
4. Sincerity and honesty matter. If both of you trust each other then the relationship continues. There is no “clock” on this.
5. You know when courtship begins when marriage is brought up. Ideally, you meet her family and she meets yours. Both families get to know the other, and about the boyfriend and girlfriend.
6. If the courtship is working out then engagement occurs. Now, your parents were your age once. They get it. They can see past the emotions and attraction and help get the conversation going about what’s practical and about planning.
7. In working class families, it is/was common for the young man to sit down with the girl’s father and ask his permission. Marriage is not to be entered into lightly or with immaturity. He sizes up the young man and asks the right questions. He doesn’t want his daughter to end up with a bum or a drunk or someone who can’t control his temper. If he doesn’t see a strong work ethic, that had better get straightened out because marriage is good but it requires work and dedication and commitment.

So, that’s it. I lived through this as did my contemporaries before dating turned into casual sex for no reason other than a lot of media depictions in movies and then TV. As families fell apart due to constant pressure from the “we have to destroy families” groups who promoted contraception, abortion and divorce - I’m not talking about abuse, dating became forgotten, much less courtship. I see way too many older women with two divorces under their belt.

Ed

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Real courtship is part of a process.

1. You meet some, in my case, young ladies. You spend some time with them. A few you ask on a date.
2. No pressure, nothing super serious, it’s just “let’s have fun.”
3. Then you may become friends. But, unlike the others, this one has so many qualities you like and she feels the same. You spend more time together. You earn each other’s trust. Then, if willing, you choose each other.
4. Sincerity and honesty matter. If both of you trust each other then the relationship continues. There is no “clock” on this.
5. You know when courtship begins when marriage is brought up. Ideally, you meet her family and she meets yours. Both families get to know the other, and about the boyfriend and girlfriend.
6. If the courtship is working out then engagement occurs. Now, your parents were your age once. They get it. They can see past the emotions and attraction and help get the conversation going about what’s practical and about planning.

What you are referring to as Courtship seems more like what Mr. Umstattd would describe as “Traditional Dating” in his blog post on Courtship.
thomasumstattd.com/2014/08/courtship-fundamentally-flawed/

At least in the evangelical/fundemantalist approach, any mention of “dating” is frowned on, even by people such as the Bates who essentially DO practice dating between friendship and courtship. But even they certainly would look at horror on “dating just for fun”, many assume this is code for “dating just for sex”.

But some like the Duggars, see the ideal as a “friendship” period that is often very superficial and short, though not always - their most recently married daughter knew her now husband for 15 years, but most of the other in-laws only knew the daughters for a few months before the young man asking the father for permission to “court” the young woman. In most cases, there is heavy pressure for the “courtship” to lead to engagement, even if those involved are teenagers. The ideal is for the eventual spouse to be the ONLY romantic attachment you ever have. Certainly not all meet this ideal, but it exists.

There is also a heavy emphasis on parental involvement, especially on the part of the woman’s father. In the most extreme form, the courting couple is supposed to be chaperoned at all times, and in the case of Duggar girls, they are not allowed to even send a private text to men they are “courting”, but CC their parents on them.

I guess this takes the topic very OT, though.

ETA: Deleted rumor about the Duggars that probably counts as detraction.

 

[DeniseNY]

I’ll try to be quick before the Conservative, anti-gay Trump Supporters get here.

1. From my understanding, the Church Condemns all Homosexual acts and relationships.

Because of how specific you are getting, I strongly recommend you talk to a Priest that you know and pose these questions to him.

This site is mainly Conservative, so any minute now, I expect that many will be yelling at you about your orientation.

I am more then willing to talk with you more via PMs, but I doubt we would be able to have a proper discussion here as I can already imagine the hateful replies you may get.

The only person being hateful here is, well… you.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

The only person being hateful here is, well… you.

I wouldn’t go quite that far, but the post you are replying to certainly does include the OP jumping to uncharitable conclusions.

 

[thephilosopher6]

But if this was the case, then wouldn’t even an opposite-sex relationship be a near occasion for sin, and best avoided, since the Church does not condone ANY sexual acts other than between husband and wife? Do you favor arranged marriage, then or, at least strict courtships with not even kissing allowed until marriage?

That’s why there is marriage in the first place. Men and women in romantic relationships have the opportunity to get married. Same sex partners cannot get married because only marriage between a man and woman is possible. The entire purpose of marriage is for a man and woman to reproduce and start a loving family. This is something same sex partners cannot do, and same sex sexual practices go directly against the natural order of the world.

 

[DeniseNY]

I wouldn’t go quite that far, but the post you are replying to certainly does include the OP jumping to uncharitable conclusions.

True. Hateful is a strong word; uncharitable is indeed more fitting.

 

[holyrood]

I’ll try to be quick before the Conservative, anti-gay Trump Supporters get here.

1. From my understanding, the Church Condemns all Homosexual acts and relationships.

…

This site is mainly Conservative, so any minute now, I expect that many will be yelling at you about your orientation.

I am more then willing to talk with you more via PMs, but I doubt we would be able to have a proper discussion here as I can already imagine the hateful replies you may get.

Wow, pretty judgmental, aren’t you, Teen Catholic Guy?

 

[SolicitorPirate]

That’s why there is marriage in the first place. Men and women in romantic relationships have the opportunity to get married. Same sex partners cannot get married because only marriage between a man and woman is possible. The entire purpose of marriage is for a man and woman to reproduce and start a loving family. This is something same sex partners cannot do, and same sex sexual practices go directly against the natural order of the world.

Whole lot of people with marriage certs that would argue otherwise

 

[thephilosopher6]

Whole lot of people with marriage certs that would argue otherwise

This is the theology of the Church.

 

[Sarcelle]

You apparently are unfamiliar then with terms such as heteroromantic asexuals, homoromantic asexuals and biromantic asexuals. There is more to romance than jumping into bed for sex with someone. So no, romantic feelings or a romantic relationship does not necessarily always incline persons to sexual acts.

Interesting.

I’m betraying my age but in my day, these so called romantic relationships without any intentions of sex is called… friendship.

Caring for someone deeply but platonically is friendship right?

 

[Lucretius]

I don’t recall St. Francis ever basically (or otherwise) having “romances” with inanimate objects.

What do you think all that “brother sun and sister moon” was about? Romance is a passionate, focused, and mysterious love that doesn’t necessarily involved a drive towards sexual intercourse.

Christi pax.

 

[pianistclare]

What do you think all that “brother sun and sister moon” was about? Romance is a passionate, focused, and mysterious love that doesn’t necessarily involved a drive towards sexual intercourse.

Christi pax.

It’s about “poetic language” St. Francis was a poet.
He was not “in love” with the planets. Rather, it was a reference to the 2 natures of people…male and female. His true love was Christ, Christ’s Church, his brothers in his order, and the Poor Clares whom he helped his dear friend Chiara to found. Pure love just is. But it’s not on inanimate objects. He taught using those words because the people he ministered to were often uneducated, and neglected. Flowery language is common in the church. We don’t interpret them out of context. Much like everything.

The OP is young, and playing with fire. It is the extraordinary person who can “love” without desiring the physical eventually. It also takes a very strong spiritual soul as well. Too soon in her life to be encouraging such, particularly when she is also attracted to men. She knows what the Church says about this, and she is looking for an OK or a scenario that might pass the test. I don’t think there really is one. True, older folks can have a room mate like this and be very fond of them, even love them. But that also is a very big cross and not to be suggested lightly.