So, I'm bisexual, and I have a few questions

[Lucretius]

It’s about “poetic language” St. Francis was a poet.
He was not “in love” with the planets. Rather, it was a reference to the 2 natures of people…male and female. His true love was Christ, Christ’s Church, his brothers in his order, and the Poor Clares whom he helped his dear friend Chiara to found. Pure love just is. But it’s not on inanimate objects. He taught using those words because the people he ministered to were often uneducated, and neglected. Flowery language is common in the church. We don’t interpret them out of context. Much like everything.

The OP is young, and playing with fire. It is the extraordinary person who can “love” without desiring the physical eventually. It also takes a very strong spiritual soul as well. Too soon in her life to be encouraging such, particularly when she is also attracted to men. She knows what the Church says about this, and she is looking for an OK or a scenario that might pass the test. I don’t think there really is one. True, older folks can have a room mate like this and be very fond of them, even love them. But that also is a very big cross and not to be suggested lightly.

Yes, saint Francis was very much was in love with the planets, as well as the rest of Creation. I recommend reading Chesterton’s take on him: gkc.org.uk/gkc/books/St_Francis.html

The key about eros is that it doesn’t necessarily have to translate into sexual acts or a desire for them. That might be so for the perverted, but the chaste this is simply not so. After all, the greatest expression of erotic love is in the passion of Christ, yet no one sees this as saying that Christ wanted to have sexual intercourse with anyone.

What I’m reading you as saying, please correct me if I’m wrong, is that it is impossible to have passionate, deep, intense, and awful, yet chaste, friendships. I find that the problem we have with unchastity today is in part due to how we limit just how erotic energy is to be expressed, that it can only be expressed in marriage, otherwise it must be suppressed, which means it will probably be expressed sinfully and in vices.

Eros doesn’t necessarily mean a desire for sex.

Christi pax.

 

[pianistclare]

Yes, saint Francis was very much was in love with the planets, as well as the rest of Creation. I recommend reading Chesterton’s take on him: gkc.org.uk/gkc/books/St_Francis.html

The key about eros is that it doesn’t necessarily have to translate into sexual acts or a desire for them. That might be so for the perverted, but the chaste this is simply not so. After all, the greatest expression of erotic love is in the passion of Christ, yet no one sees this as saying that Christ wanted to have sexual intercourse with anyone.

What I’m reading you as saying, please correct me if I’m wrong, is that it is impossible to have passionate, deep, intense, and awful, yet chaste, friendships. I find that the problem we have with unchastity today is in part due to how we limit just how erotic energy is to be expressed, that it can only be expressed in marriage, otherwise it must be suppressed, which means it will probably be expressed sinfully and in vices.

Eros doesn’t necessarily mean a desire for sex.

Christi pax.

And I recommend reading the biographies by people who actually knew him. He loved creation, HE was not IN LOVE with planets.
I agree with your second statement about passionate relationships, however, given the age of the OP I doubt seriously this is what is happening here. She is young, and willing to experiment, with loopholes even. What she is proposing is not good for her soul or her sanity. You and she are talking about two totally different and distinct things.
She is talking about having an attraction for someone. And she knows she cannot act on it. It doesn’t automatically doom her to a loveless life.

 

[Memaw]

What do you think all that “brother sun and sister moon” was about? Romance is a passionate, focused, and mysterious love that doesn’t necessarily involved a drive towards sexual intercourse.

Christi pax.

“Romance” today means a lot of other things too. While he loved all God’s creation, he wasn’t “in love” with it. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Lucretius]

“Romance” today means a lot of other things too. While he loved all God’s creation, he wasn’t “in love” with it. God Bless, Memaw

I think what you trying to say is that St. Francis didn’t love things in the way he loved people, which I agree with, in a sense. But he really did love the “personality” of natural things, which we see in the way he expressed it.

Christi pax.

 

[pianistclare]

I think this poor girl’s thread has been derailed enough.
I’m out.
Best of luck to the OP, I’ll say a prayer for you.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

There is a brand new book out, written by Jesuit priest, Fr James Martin, SJ. It is called:

‘Building a Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBT Community Can Enter into a Relationship of Respect, Compassion, and Sensitivity’

It might be worth a read to give you some reassurance and answers. I noticed that he has two Bishops endorsing it, so it is well within Catholic teaching and wisdom. Yet I’m certain Fr Martin is going to push a few boundaries at the same time. He’s a good priest, so I would trust him on this.

amazon.com/Building-Bridge-Relationship-Compassion-Sensitivity/dp/0062694316/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497369519&sr=8-1&keywords=james+martin+building+a+bridge

 

[Lucretius]

There is a brand new book out, written by Jesuit priest, Fr James Martin, SJ. It is called:

‘Building a Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBT Community Can Enter into a Relationship of Respect, Compassion, and Sensitivity’

It might be worth a read to give you some reassurance and answers. I noticed that he has two Bishops endorsing it, so it is well within Catholic teaching and wisdom. Yet I’m certain Fr Martin is going to push a few boundaries at the same time. He’s a good priest, so I would trust him on this.

amazon.com/Building-Bridge-Relationship-Compassion-Sensitivity/dp/0062694316/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497369519&sr=8-1&keywords=james+martin+building+a+bridge

By brand new, you mean brand spanking new: it literally came out (ha!) today

Christi pax.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

By brand new, you mean brand spanking new: it literally came out (ha!) today

Christi pax.

Yes, indeed! Hot off the presses. I think it will do very well in sales.

 

[18Gingasoldier]

Thank you for your replies. However, if the Church says that I cannot have a romantic same-sex relationship with both of us being chaste, then I won’t do enter one. I was just curious to know what you knew since you have more experience in the Church’s teachings.

I don’t know why people think I’m looking for loopholes or to justify my actions. I won’t enter a relationship like that if being chaste in a same-sex romantic relationship is still immoral. I would never have sex before marriage, and if I enter a same-sex relationship, that means NEVER. I’m bisexual, but that’s my sexual orientation, it doesn’t mean I’ll commit homosexual/heterosexual acts dating a boy/girl.

The Church is not supposed to have any loopholes, and maybe a chaste romantic same-sex relationship won’t satisfy me in the long run, since I just realized that dating is usually followed by getting married, and I can never marry a woman.
So just to be safe, I’ll abstain from any same-sex romantic relationships, since the majority of bisexual/lesbian friends I know are too obsessed with dating someone. One’s a Christian, but not Catholic, and had premarital sex, so I better watch out if I enter a opposite-sex relationship.

By the way, I’m 18, you don’t need to call me a “girl” anymore. I’m a lady by now

Also, I noticed very few people who answered to what can I do to trust my mother more. She knows that I’m trying to be more religious, but I can’t imagine her reaction if I ever tell her I’m bisexual. She thinks there are only heterosexuals and homosexuals, nothing else.

 

[at9009]

Hi!

So, in summary, I’m asking this:

1. If I enter a romantic same sex relationship, and we both agree to not do any sexual acts but be together, would that be alright?
2. What do you think about the “manly” feeling I felt? Maybe same-sex attracted Catholics may know what I’m talking about when feeling “manly” or “girly” (which I have also felt when I like someone of the opposite sex).
3. Since my mom will most likely think I’m a failure for liking both boys AND girls, how can I trust her when her opinion on LGBT people is probably negative, especially because of the lesbian who wanted me as her girlfriend?
4. How can I properly reject any boy/girl that wishes to be my boy/girlfriend?
5. What can I do when any boy/girl that I reject insists on going out with me? Should I talk to them, get away, get help, etc.?

So, hey thanks for posting. I would highly recommend talking to your local priest, another good source is spiritualfriendship.org, as others have suggested you can reach out to Courage (couragerc.org/), and I would recommend reading “Washed and Waiting” and “Spiritual Friendship” by Wesley Hill and Eve Tushnet (both celibate gay/ssa Christians who talk about this issue).

1. The idea of romance is kinda of an issue that is deeply tied to eventual marriage or sexual acts in our culture. So with that in mind the church could not encourage that. However, if you meant that you and another same sex person decided to a committed deep and connected friendship that included the possibility of living together (with certain boundaries and support in key to avoid occasion of sin) then I don’t see the issue.

Our culture has seemed to equate love simply as meaning eros (i.e. romantic love) but we have completely ignored the deep and profound love that can be found within friendship. They are expressed differently from each other but both are strong.

1. Cant’ really relate to this so sorry about not being able to provide any insight. You might get some insight from reading from Melinda Selmys. She is a Catholic woman married to a man with kids but deals with issues of gender dysphoria and sexuality issues while adhering to Catholic teaching. For me personally, though I’m only attracted to other guys (thus living a celibate life), I’ve never not felt like a guy. I have had moments of feeling like less of a man because I’m not attracted to women but that has more to do with some toxic masculinity views than anything.
2. Parents can react in a multitude of ways to this issue and just as you had to process and come to terms with dealing with this issue, try and show patience with them as they process and deal with this issue. With regards to this issue, I look to Church tradition and scripture as support. From a Catholic view, same sex sexual acts, have always been contrary to God’s Will. So with that in mind, it means either a celibate vocation or marriage to a woman. After my own personal discernment, marriage seems highly unlikely thus celibacy is my path.
3. Well, one thing you could say is that you are not interested in pursing a relationship at this state in your life. You could provide reasons like academics, jobs, family, etc or not go into detail. You could state you would rather develop strong friendships than find a romantic relationship at this time. Some people will be okay with that while others would rather date and might not be interested in friendship.
4. Well, if they cannot and refuse to respect your boundaries then I would definitely recommend a more forceful conversation. Additionally, maybe suggest not being in any one on one situations (maybe just group events). Overtime, they might get over their crush making friendship possible, but setting boundaries and making sure those boundaries are respected is important.

Hope some of this ramble helps.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Well, if they cannot and refuse to respect your boundaries then I would definitely recommend a more forceful conversation. Additionally, maybe suggest not being in any one on one situations (maybe just group events). Overtime, they might get over their crush making friendship possible, but setting boundaries and making sure those boundaries are respected is important.

Hope some of this ramble helps.

I agree with 80% of what you said, but it seems here you are giving people with SSA a pass for inappropriate behavior, that most people would NOT give a man harassing a woman to date him when she has made it clear she is not interested.

Although sadly some people do give heterosexual harrassers a pass, too. But the advice most people would get, whether from the “this guy wants to date me but I just want to be friends” or “I really like this girl but she’s friend-zoned me” is to cut off as much contact as you can with the person. Not just weakly "suggesting not being in one on one situations and giving them a chance to “get over their crush making friendship possible” while simultaneously giving them false hope by continuing to hang out with them.

One issue I have with the “Side A” LGBT activists is this idea that all people who fit the LGBT moniker automatically have to become BFFs or at least allies, and always stand up for each other, and even let outrageous behavior slide, because that’s what you do for your combat buddies in the culture war. While I do NOT subscribe to the “all LGBT people are sexual predators” nonsense, that doesn’t mean that all LGBT people are squeaky clean and are just looking for love, either.

So if an LGBT person is engaged in what amounts to sexual harassment, and you wouldn’t tolerate the same harassment from a straight person, why would you make excuses for an LGBT person?

 

[at9009]

I agree with 80% of what you said, but it seems here you are giving people with SSA a pass for inappropriate behavior, that most people would NOT give a man harassing a woman to date him when she has made it clear she is not interested.

Although sadly some people do give heterosexual harrassers a pass, too. But the advice most people would get, whether from the “this guy wants to date me but I just want to be friends” or “I really like this girl but she’s friend-zoned me” is to cut off as much contact as you can with the person. Not just weakly "suggesting not being in one on one situations and giving them a chance to “get over their crush making friendship possible” while simultaneously giving them false hope by continuing to hang out with them.

One issue I have with the “Side A” LGBT activists is this idea that all people who fit the LGBT moniker automatically have to become BFFs or at least allies, and always stand up for each other, and even let outrageous behavior slide, because that’s what you do for your combat buddies in the culture war. While I do NOT subscribe to the “all LGBT people are sexual predators” nonsense, that doesn’t mean that all LGBT people are squeaky clean and are just looking for love, either.

So if an LGBT person is engaged in what amounts to sexual harassment, and you wouldn’t tolerate the same harassment from a straight person, why would you make excuses for an LGBT person?

Okay so my brain is partially fried from lots of Step 1 studying so it’s quite possible my writings said something I didn’t intend it to mean.

I wasn’t implying anyone straight or otherwise get a pass for sexual harassment. In fact, I wasn’t even making a distinction between straight or a gay person asking the OP out. I was referring to if the person was insistent on pushing the OP about dating. If they couldn’t respect the OP’s boundaries and for whatever reason the OP had to interact with them, then I would suggest not being in a situation where it was just the two of them. I do think overtime, if the person was having troubles accepting no possibility of a romantic relationship at first, they’d get over it in time. HOWEVER, if the person was harassing the person that is something entirely different. If that were the case, regardless of the reason, I would recommend cutting that person away. I apologize for not being clear and am probably not that clear now either lol. I’ll recover after this month.

 

[buffalo]

**New Book:

Why I Don’t Call Myself Gay: How I Reclaimed My Sexual Reality and Found Peace
**

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I wasn’t implying anyone straight or otherwise get a pass for sexual harassment. In fact, I wasn’t even making a distinction between straight or a gay person asking the OP out. I was referring to if the person was insistent on pushing the OP about dating. If they couldn’t respect the OP’s boundaries and for whatever reason the OP had to interact with them, then I would suggest not being in a situation where it was just the two of them. I do think overtime, if the person was having troubles accepting no possibility of a romantic relationship at first, they’d get over it in time. HOWEVER, if the person was harassing the person that is something entirely different. If that were the case, regardless of the reason, I would recommend cutting that person away. I apologize for not being clear and am probably not that clear now either lol. I’ll recover after this month.

Thanks for the clarification. I just wanted to make sure the OP doesn’t let her sympathy for fellow SSA people allow her to be bullied into a dating relationship, out of fear of being accused of “internalized bigotry” toward gay people (I know sometimes bisexual people are accused of this by those who have little or no heterosexual attractions), or “not being true to your sexuality” or whatever.

I recall a recent topic involving a gay man sending gay porn to a friend and the friend posting about it here, he was very afraid of being accused of homophobia if he made any fuss about it. Now, I do NOT believe the vast majority of LGBT individuals are sexual predators, but unfortunately they do exist, and there are those who don’t go that far but are inappropriate.

 

[St_Francis]

Thank you for your replies. However, if the Church says that I cannot have a romantic same-sex relationship with both of us being chaste, then I won’t do enter one. I was just curious to know what you knew since you have more experience in the Church’s teachings.

I don’t know why people think I’m looking for loopholes or to justify my actions. I won’t enter a relationship like that if being chaste in a same-sex romantic relationship is still immoral. I would never have sex before marriage, and if I enter a same-sex relationship, that means NEVER. I’m bisexual, but that’s my sexual orientation, it doesn’t mean I’ll commit homosexual/heterosexual acts dating a boy/girl.

The Church is not supposed to have any loopholes, and maybe a chaste romantic same-sex relationship won’t satisfy me in the long run, since I just realized that dating is usually followed by getting married, and I can never marry a woman.
So just to be safe, I’ll abstain from any same-sex romantic relationships, since the majority of bisexual/lesbian friends I know are too obsessed with dating someone. One’s a Christian, but not Catholic, and had premarital sex, so I better watch out if I enter a opposite-sex relationship.

By the way, I’m 18, you don’t need to call me a “girl” anymore. I’m a lady by now

Also, I noticed very few people who answered to what can I do to trust my mother more. She knows that I’m trying to be more religious, but I can’t imagine her reaction if I ever tell her I’m bisexual. She thinks there are only heterosexuals and homosexuals, nothing else.

Why do you need to tell your mother this? Obviously she will be distressed, and if you plan never to act on those urges/temptations, there’s no reason to tell her anything.

 

[Irishmom2]

Why do you need to tell your mother this? Obviously she will be distressed, and if you plan never to act on those urges/temptations, there’s no reason to tell her anything.

Yeah, that’s what I was wondering about too. It serves no purpose.