So I'm curious some denominations teach that "accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior" and you will be saved?

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Convert2013 said:
5 Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
What is being referred to here is that to be saved one must be born again. That is baptism!
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Is it baptism ? Is he really saying the baptismal rite is effectual, that you do not even see the Kingdom before that . Before I enter I usually see first, hence Jesus says first in vs. 3- “you must be born again to see the kingdom”. I don’t know of anyone who has been baptized as consenting individual who did not "get it’’, see and understand the kingdom before the rite. Even in scripture people get baptized after they “believe’’ yet we are justified by this belief first before any rite to “solidify” it. How can an unregenerate soul believe ? If you are not born again you are not regenerated and can not believe unto salvation. Are we born with saving faith ? No, hence you need to be born again, in the spirit. That people believed and then were baptized right away in Acts made the two almost simultaneous , even appear to be effectual(the baptism). But you can not declare Jesus as Messiah unless by the spirit in you, a rebirthed spirit before baptism. I do agree that the public baptism, the confessing with the mouth that Jesus is Lord and Savior for the first time is effectual to solidifying what has transpired in the heart,-salvation, as Paul says somewhere. The rite itself is not a magic wand as circumcision was not. People in OT were not circumcised then received enlightenment and said, “I want to be Jewish and follow their God”. No they “saw” the kingdom” , believed in the covenant , then were circumcised (Nicodemus forgot this or didn’t understand the work of the spirit veiled in the circumcision/religion). In Acts you did not have catechumen, believers who wanted to learn more before baptism. If you believed you believed and were baptized. if you didn’t believe, you were not baptized… Water is not baptism but the water representing the first birth that Nicodemus refers to (entering his mothers womb again). Jesus patiently (I’d be laughing) goes with it but adds the second part "spirit’ . It shows when we are born in the flesh, of water, we are not born in the spirit, but are dead spiritually in our sins. The Lord grants us faith to believe in forgiveness of sins thru His blood, a washing and regeneration of our dead spirit. Born again. Which is what we confess at our baptism. An outward work to show an already performed inward work. …
 
ericc said:
I can not find anywhere in the Bible where it states that if you “accept Jesus as personal Lord and Saviour you will be saved”. Anyone can quote book/chapter/verse?
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So St. Peter was not saved when he made his confession thou art the christ ? Was he ever baptized / when was he saved ?
 
benhur said:
So St. Peter was not saved when he made his confession thou art the christ ? Was he ever baptized / when was he saved ?
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He was saved, as all people are, only when he died, benhur.

For that, essentially, is what being “saved” means–being present with the Lord before the Eternal Throne of heaven.

And that happens, of course, only when we die.
 
benhur said:
Is it baptism ?
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Yes.
Is he really saying the baptismal rite is effectual, that you do not even see the Kingdom before that
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Yes. You cannot “see” or “enter” heaven unless you are baptized, normatively.
Before I enter I usually see first,
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Have you entered heaven already? :confused:
If you are not born again you are not regenerated and can not believe unto salvation. Are we born with saving faith ? No, hence you need to be born again, in the spirit.
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In WATER and the spirit, benhur. In WATER.

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of WATER and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God–John 3:5

Water cannot be omitted without changing the Word of God.
 
benhur said:
An outward work to show an already performed inward work. …
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I’ve never read that phrase in a single page of the Bible, benhur.

That is a man-made tradition you’ve been duped into believing.
 
benhur said:
The rite itself is not a magic wand as circumcision was not.
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Indeed. You are very Catholic when you say this.

However, if we could see what happens to the soul at the moment of baptism, it would make nuclear fission look like child’s play. An indelible mark is placed on the soul.

The universe is changed forever, benhur, at the moment of our water baptism
People in OT were not circumcised then received enlightenment and said, “I want to be Jewish and follow their God”. No they “saw” the kingdom" , believed in the covenant , then were circumcised
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Huh? Circumcision was done at 8 days old, benhur. On all Jewish male babies.

So there was no seeing of the kingdom and believing for these babies.
The Lord grants us faith to believe in forgiveness of sins thru His blood, a washing and regeneration of our dead spirit. Born again.
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Amen!
 
PRmerger said:
He was saved, as all people are, only when he died, benhur.

For that, essentially, is what being “saved” means–being present with the Lord before the Eternal Throne of heaven.

And that happens, of course, only when we die.
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wrong. Saved has beginning, middle and a forever ending. scripture speaks of a downpayment at the beginning, now , in the and by the gift of the HS Towards that eternal end
When was peter born again was the jist of my question ? When ? When was he regenerated from his dead spirit inherited from birth, birth by water, fleshly birth ?
 
PRmerger said:
Yes.

Yes. You cannot “see” or “enter” heaven unless you are baptized, normatively.

Have you entered heaven already? :confused:

In WATER and the spirit, benhur. In WATER.

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of WATER and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God–John 3:5[/INDENT]

Water cannot be omitted without changing the Word of God.
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lets see. I am told here by others to take scripture in its context, historical,cultural and religious. last I heard the dialogue with nicodemus that dealt with being born of water and spirit , to be born again, was not futuristic,towards new covenant, but dealt with all of Old Testament. Hence Jesus said of Nicodemus the the he , a leader of the OT Jewish people did not understand regeneration. Regeneration that Cain and Abel, Abraham and Isaac ,Joseph David, Isaiah, Jeremiah had to experience. Can you show me any references to their water baptism ? For sure they were born of water (from the womb) and of the spirit as I believe scripture and The Lord indicate. Don’t you think it an error to impose a nt rite upon an OT context ? Scripture is quite clear that without blood there is no remission of sins, that is by faith in the representative blood. Don’t think that water baptism that existed in OT over rode this precept. John the
Baptist baptism was not for regeneration but presupposed it via traditional OT means and was more a preparation rite, much like a good preperation with confession before eucharisting or a lent or advent period before celebrating related holy days…No Jesus could not have been speaking of a NT rite that an OT rabbi was to have known.
 
PRmerger said:
Yes.

Yes. You cannot “see” or “enter” heaven unless you are baptized, normatively.

Have you entered heaven already? :confused:

In WATER and the spirit, benhur. In WATER.

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of WATER and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God–John 3:5

Water cannot be omitted without changing the Word of God.
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again show me where where Mary and Joseph and OT saints were water baptized for regeneration ?
 
PRmerger said:
Indeed. You are very Catholic when you say this.

However, if we could see what happens to the soul at the moment of baptism, it would make nuclear fission look like child’s play. An indelible mark is placed on the soul.

The universe is changed forever, benhur, at the moment of our water baptism

Huh? Circumcision was done at 8 days old, benhur. On all Jewish male babies.

So there was no seeing of the kingdom and believing for these babies.

Amen!
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huh, Abraham his children and converts entered their mothers womb, were born again then on eighth we’re circumcised ? …the context of Jesus and nicodemus was adults, in that nicodemus was. Just trying to expound on this little discourse between the two and making no comments on infant baptism…where is it in scripture the universe is changed forever when one is water baptized ? We do see and hopefully agree that the angels in heaven rejoice when one sinner repents
 
benhur said:
wrong. Saved has beginning, middle and a forever ending.
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Yes, you are correct.

And you are very Catholic when you say that. 👍

However, in the end, we are saved when we die. Period.
When was peter born again was the jist of my question ? When ? When was he regenerated from his dead spirit inherited from birth, birth by water, fleshly birth ?
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When do you say he was? And please cite book, chapter and verse that tells us when Peter was “regenerated from his dead spirit inherited from birth?”
 
benhur said:
lets see. I am told here by others to take scripture in its context, historical,cultural and religious.
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Yes. Very Catholic, this. As well as taking Scripture with eyes of the intention of the inspired writing, using the lens of the Church.
last I heard the dialogue with nicodemus that dealt with being born of water and spirit , to be born again, was not futuristic,towards new covenant,but dealt with all of Old Testament
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There is no reason to create a dichotomy, benhur. There is no reason the dialogue cannot be both.
Hence Jesus said of Nicodemus the the he , a leader of the OT Jewish people did not understand regeneration. Regeneration that Cain and Abel, Abraham and Isaac ,Joseph David, Isaiah, Jeremiah had to experience.** Can you show me any references to their water baptism ?**
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Why would I have to do that?
For sure they were born of water (from the womb) and of the spirit as I believe scripture and The Lord indicate
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Can you cite when Cain was regenerated by the Spirit? What about Joseph? Book, chapter and verse, please!
Don’t you think it an error to impose a nt rite upon an OT context ?
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Why would that be an error? Where does Scripture tell us it’s an error? Book, chapter and verse, please!
Scripture is quite clear that without blood there is no remission of sins, that is by faith in the representative blood.
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Very Catholic, this!
Don’t think that water baptism that existed in OT over rode this precept.
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Were you under the misapprehension that Catholicism proclaims that it does?
John the
Baptist baptism was not for regeneration but presupposed it via traditional OT means and was more a preparation rite, much like a good preperation with confession before eucharisting or a lent or advent period before celebrating related holy days…No Jesus could not have been speaking of a NT rite that an OT rabbi was to have known.
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I have no idea what this means. Could you please explicate?
 
benhur said:
again show me where where Mary and Joseph and OT saints were water baptized for regeneration ?
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Why would I have to do that? :confused:

Were you under the misapprehension that Catholicism uses the Bible Alone for its doctrines and dogmas?
 
stewstew03 said:
See John 3:22 for clues.
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Yes but verse 30 says he who believes has eternal life. I would think the belief came first, then one was baptized. That is one would listen to Jesus speak, then hearers who believed in his message were then baptized. Again, can an unregenerated spirit believe ?
 
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