So is it impossible to argue against same-sex marriage?

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Tomorrow marks a sad and tragic day in our nation’s history. On this day, the decision by the California Supreme Court to allow same-sex “marriage” will be implemented. This terrible decision will create legal havoc across the nation and be used as a battering ram to impose same-sex “marriage” across the nation.

Since the homosexual movement has faced dismal results whenever the issue is put to a vote, the new strategy is to force same-sex “marriage” down the throats of Americans through judicial decisions.

In face of this great outrage, I am asking if you could join with me tomorrow by taking some time out of your schedule to pray in reparation for what will be done tomorrow. I would ask you to pray and make sacrifices as a way of asking God to save our nation. I will be especially praying for a great victory for the California marriage amendment in November. Could you join me in this effort? Perhaps you could spend some time before the Blessed Sacrament at a nearby adoration chapel?

If we unite in prayers and efforts, we are confident that Our Lord will hear our prayers. We are heartened by the defeat of the Treaty of Lisbon which would have led to the imposing of an anti-Catholic agenda on Ireland. Let us pray that similar things will happen here!

tfp.org/

 

[Fitswimmer]

dianedew.com/aclu.htm

Very objective website, did you notice that she lists Catholicism as a CULT!!!
dianedew.com/apologet.htm

 

[buffalo]

**Homosexual people do not choose to be homosexual, it is not a lifestyle. **

Prove this claim.

 

[sydcatholic80]

Prove this claim.

Well Buffalo, prove that it isn’t?

According to Catholic Catechism:

“2357 … It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.”

Even the Church admits that we don’t know the cause.
I can tell you I have not chosen this path.
I guess that is my word against yours, however God does see into my heart and mind, and I don’t care if you believe me or not.

Josh

 

[Fitswimmer]

Well Buffalo, prove that it isn’t?

According to Catholic Catechism:

Even the Church admits that we don’t know the cause.
I can tell you I have not chosen this path.
I guess that is my word against yours, however God does see into my heart and mind, and I don’t care if you believe me or not.

Josh

This report was just issued today-I got it from the BBC website. 90 people certianly isn’t a lot, but since this study produced measureable results it is likely that larger samples will be studied now.

Scans see ‘gay brain differences’
The brains of gay men and women look like those found in heterosexual people of the opposite sex, research suggests.

The Swedish study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal, compared the size of the brain’s halves in 90 adults.

Gay men and heterosexual women had halves of a similar size, while the right side was bigger in lesbian women and heterosexual men.

A UK scientist said this was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb.

As far as I’m concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay
Dr Qazi Rahman
Queen Mary, University of London

Scientists have noticed for some time that homosexual people of both sexes have differences in certain cognitive abilities, suggesting there may be subtle differences in their brain structure.

This is the first time, however, that scientists have used brain scanners to try to look for the source of those differences.

A group of 90 healthy gay and heterosexual adults, men and women, were scanned by the Karolinska Institute scientists to measure the volume of both sides, or hemispheres, of their brain.

When these results were collected, it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular “asymmetry” in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain.

In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.

A further experiment found that in one particular area of the brain, the amygdala, there were other significant differences.

In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve “connections” in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.

The reverse, with more neural connections in the left amygdala, was the case in homosexual men and heterosexual women.

The Karolinska team said that these differences could not be mainly explained by “learned” effects, but needed another mechanism to set them, either before or after birth.

‘Fight, flight or mate’

Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London, said that he believed that these brain differences were laid down early in foetal development.

“As far as I’m concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay,” he said.

The amygdala, he said, was important because of its role in “orientating”, or directing, the rest of the brain in response to an emotional stimulus - be it during the “fight or flight” response, or the presence of a potential mate.

"In other words, the brain network which determines what sexual orientation actually ‘orients’ towards is similar between gay men and straight women, and between gay women and straight men.

“This makes sense given that gay men have a sexual preference which is like that of women in general, that is, preferring men, and vice versa for lesbian women.”

 

[Larowyn]

Of course he’s going to say that it’s proof that gays are born that way–he’ll be tarred if he didn’t. It still doesn’t explain why homosexuals have to use the anus as if it were a vagina and why homosexual “sex” is basically that and petting.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Of course he’s going to say that it’s proof that gays are born that way–he’ll be tarred if he didn’t. It still doesn’t explain why homosexuals have to use the anus as if it were a vagina and why homosexual “sex” is basically that and petting.

So if the science doesn’t agree with you, then it’s peer pressure???

the stubborn insistence on retaining such ignorance would be funny if it didn’t lead to hatred and discrimination.

 

[Larowyn]

The test demonstrated that the brains of homosexual men are more similar to those of heterosexual women. That does not prove that the similarities were intended that way by nature. A kid I grew up with has a brain defect that will make him no more intelligent than a five year old, but no one says that it’s how nature intended for him to be. I still think that homosexuality is more than likely just a subconscious decision and not nature-intended or consciously chosen.

 

[Fitswimmer]

The test demonstrated that the brains of homosexual men are more similar to those of heterosexual women. That does not prove that the similarities were intended that way by nature. A kid I grew up with has a brain defect that will make him no more intelligent than a five year old, but no one says that it’s how nature intended for him to be. I still think that homosexuality is more than likely just a subconscious decision and not nature-intended or consciously chosen.

You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

 

[Larowyn]

I’m not making up my own facts, I’m suggesting possibilities. The burden of proof is not on me.

 

[lucybeebee]

So a homosexual is an animal now? Wow that was creative.

So the state shouldn’t care about sterile couples, or infertile couples, because they are not going to contribute to the creation of new citizens.

No one really knows what causes homosexuality (I certainly don’t). The notion of a “gay gene” is mere speculation, with no empirical evidence to sustain the theory. Infertile couples can and should adopt if they are called to do so, especially minority or special needs children that are more difficult to place.

Homosexual people do not choose to be homosexual, it is not a lifestyle. Is homosexuality now linked to the decline in birthrate?
I would suggest not, so what will change in the future?

I am not out to convert people to homosexuality. I live as a chaste Catholic SSA man. This is my calling. I live according to the laws of the church and the bible. How is my living harming yours? I am active in the ministry of the Church, leading a quiet life, living as Jesus asks me to.

I believe two SSA people can live together and love each other as deeply as an OSA couple can, and can support each other, and live a chaste life following the teachings of Christ. I support the community through my taxes, through charity, and through working in my parish community. Please tell me how my contribution to society is less?

I am not arguing against church teaching. I think though, SSA people don’t need sacramental marriage, nor state marriage, but rather laws that protect them and recognise they have a relationship. This is important for financial reasons, and also for decision making reasons (if one was to get sick). There is no need to mimic marriage.

Josh

It was not my intention to compare anyone to an animal. I’m sorry if my point was misconstrued. I was simply pointing out that feelings of affection are not enough to call a relationship marriage and not sufficent for the state to take an interest in said relationships. There are many kinds of relationships that are important, but we don’t call them all marriage because love is involved.

The decline in the birthrate can be attributed to a generalized belief that non-procreative sex should be the norm, as well as an opinion that children prevent one from leading the lifestyle of one’s choice (here I’m referring to a materialistic world view). Since sex, marriage, and family have no relationship to one another any more, homosexuality has also become more accepted.

I obviously don’t know your situation or what kind of experiences that you’ve had. You are probably a hard-working fellow trying to work out your salvation with the crosses you’ve been given. I simply don’t think that being gay is the same thing as being black or Jewish (groups that have long histories of persecution), particularly since the modern notion of homosexuality as a separate identity didn’t really exist until the 19th century.

 

[lucybeebee]

So a homosexual is an animal now? Wow that was creative.

So the state shouldn’t care about sterile couples, or infertile couples, because they are not going to contribute to the creation of new citizens.

No one really knows what causes homosexuality (I certainly don’t). The notion of a “gay gene” is mere speculation, with no empirical evidence to sustain the theory. Infertile couples can and should adopt if they are called to do so, especially minority or special needs children that are more difficult to place.

Homosexual people do not choose to be homosexual, it is not a lifestyle. Is homosexuality now linked to the decline in birthrate?
I would suggest not, so what will change in the future?

I am not out to convert people to homosexuality. I live as a chaste Catholic SSA man. This is my calling. I live according to the laws of the church and the bible. How is my living harming yours? I am active in the ministry of the Church, leading a quiet life, living as Jesus asks me to.

I believe two SSA people can live together and love each other as deeply as an OSA couple can, and can support each other, and live a chaste life following the teachings of Christ. I support the community through my taxes, through charity, and through working in my parish community. Please tell me how my contribution to society is less?

I am not arguing against church teaching. I think though, SSA people don’t need sacramental marriage, nor state marriage, but rather laws that protect them and recognise they have a relationship. This is important for financial reasons, and also for decision making reasons (if one was to get sick). There is no need to mimic marriage.

Josh

It was not my intention to compare anyone to an animal. I’m sorry if my point was misconstrued. I was simply pointing out that feelings of affection are not enough to call a relationship marriage and not sufficent for the state to take an interest in said relationships. There are many kinds of relationships that are important, but we don’t call them all marriage because love is involved.

The decline in the birthrate can be attributed to a generalized belief that non-procreative sex should be the norm, as well as an opinion that children prevent one from leading the lifestyle of one’s choice (here I’m referring to a materialistic world view). Since sex, marriage, and family have no relationship to one another any more, homosexuality has also become more accepted.

I obviously don’t know your situation or what kind of experiences that you’ve had. You are probably a hard-working fellow trying to work out your salvation with the crosses you’ve been given. I simply don’t think that being gay is the same thing as being black or Jewish (groups that have long histories of persecution), particularly since the modern notion of homosexuality as a separate identity didn’t really exist until the 19th century.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I’m not making up my own facts, I’m suggesting possibilities. The burden of proof is not on me.

Science is showing, not for the first time, that there are biological differences between gay and straight people.

Is God not the creator of all things? If a person is born with a condition, did God not know and allow for that condition to exist? If God has His hand in the creation of every life, which is the foundation of the Church’s opposition to abortion, how can God NOT have a hand in every aspect of that life?

 

[buffalo]

Science is showing, not for the first time, that there are biological differences between gay and straight people.

Is God not the creator of all things? If a person is born with a condition, did God not know and allow for that condition to exist? If God has His hand in the creation of every life, which is the foundation of the Church’s opposition to abortion, how can God NOT have a hand in every aspect of that life?

That is not surprising. There are many developed brain differences found in people with various lifestyles.

Epigenetics!

 

[buffalo]

Is God not the creator of all things? If a person is born with a condition, did God not know and allow for that condition to exist? If God has His hand in the creation of every life, which is the foundation of the Church’s opposition to abortion, how can God NOT have a hand in every aspect of that life?

This is a false premise. God is the Creator and His original Creation did not suffer the corruption we do today.

God allows evil to exist also. This does not mean He endorses it.

 

[Fitswimmer]

This is a false premise. God is the Creator and His original Creation did not suffer the corruption we do today.

God allows evil to exist also. This does not mean He endorses it.

You can continue to call us evil, you can continue to call us corrupted and you can continue to deny the mounting pile of scientific evidence that homosexuality is biological and not a decision we all made one afternoon when there was nothing on TV-but we are not going away. We are your neighbors, your coworkers and one of us may even be your child.

 

[buffalo]

You can continue to call us evil, you can continue to call us corrupted and you can continue to deny the mounting pile of scientific evidence that homosexuality is biological and not a decision we all made one afternoon when there was nothing on TV-but we are not going away. We are your neighbors, your coworkers and one of us may even be your child.

I did not call anyone evil.

The whole human race has been corrupted because of original sin. Don’t you get it? None of us is born without defect.

There is no proof of a “gay” gene. Even if there was, this was not God’s intent. He already demonstrated His intent for us. We blew it. And we have to struggle with all of our tribulations. We try and perfect ourselves by self mastery and control.

Corruption does not justify our behaviors.

 

[buffalo]

Well Buffalo, prove that it isn’t?

According to Catholic Catechism:

Even the Church admits that we don’t know the cause.
I can tell you I have not chosen this path.
I guess that is my word against yours, however God does see into my heart and mind, and I don’t care if you believe me or not.

Josh

The Church does not study this from a scientific perspective. She is listening to the theories and admits she does not know the genesis of the condition.

There is really quite a lot of data and there is no gay gene found.

 

[Fitswimmer]

The Church does not study this from a scientific perspective. She is listening to the theories and admits she does not know the genesis of the condition.

There is really quite a lot of data and there is no gay gene found.

again, you’re driving this back to Church teaching, which is not being debated. Church teaching is what Church teaching is, and even if science comes out tomorrow with definitive, impossible to dispute evidence that homosexuality is genetic it’s not likely that Church teaching on homosexual behavior will change.

All I can hope for, as a homosexual who is struggling to remain within the Church that as scientific evidence continues to mount regarding the origins of homosexual orientation, the blatant and not so blatant insinuations that homosexuals are lesser members of Christ’s body will cease.

 

[Jennifer123]

I can tell you I have not chosen this path.
I guess that is my word against yours, however God does see into my heart and mind, and I don’t care if you believe me or not.

Josh

This may be true but it doesn’t mean it is inherently genetic, and even if that is the cause it is not relevant. Many genetic traits are undesireable in that its active participation can lead one away from the life Christ wants for us.