So is there an answer to "When you're older you'll realize I was right"?

[DarkLight]

This is where your perception is wrong. Even as a child, we make choices based on the things we understand from outside of ourselves. Since this is your mother, you have two choices. You can do as you will or you can do your mother’s will. Doing as your mother says does not make you ‘a clone of her’. Your perception of the statement, “When you’re older, you’ll realize I was right”, is also incorrect. It is not a statement meant to demean you. It is a statement that says “This conversation is over” and it would be impolite, and disrespectful, to answer it.

Language aside, I want an answer because she is using the phrase to try to tell me that I should obey her, and she expects that I will “answer” by telling her that she’s right and I will do what she says. While I want to be respectful, I do not feel it is appropriate for me to continue with the level of obedience she expects from me.

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s another one: “If this doesn’t work, I’ll try something different.”

The nice thing about being in your 20s is that a lot of your mistakes are ones that you have time to fix. This does not apply to mistakes that lead to such things as herpes or brain damage, but it does apply to choice of profession, moving across the country or across the world, or other such things that are a big deal if change course at 50, but not a big deal at all at 25.

Best wishes!

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I understand, but at the same time…well, my mother tends to be very controlling and critical. I don’t want to turn into a clone of her. And the phrase does usually come out after I’ve heard her reasons and not been persuaded by them - and when I’ve given mine and she doesn’t like them. I don’t like the phrase because it seems to keep the relationship in a place where I’m a perpetual child, too inexperienced to make any choices for myself.

It’s a tough call. You have to understand that you make choices based on your experiences and she from hers. She has had more experiences and seen the choices you are making play out for better out worse not just for her but others she knew.

What you really need to find out is whether there are significant differences between the situation she is advising on and your situation. Having accepted “you’ll understand when your older” before my early 20s, I’ve come to realize that the way choices will unfold for you may differ from others.

 

[JM3]

Language aside, I want an answer because she is using the phrase to try to tell me that I should obey her, and she expects that I will “answer” by telling her that she’s right and I will do what she says. While I want to be respectful, I do not feel it is appropriate for me to continue with the level of obedience she expects from me.

It sounds like you have already made your choice. Since I don’t know you or your situation, I will only say two things. You can disagree with her and still do as she says. This would show respect. Second, there is nothing in disobedience that is respectful, no matter how nicely you put it.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, is there? I have yet to come up with a reply that doesn’t sound rude or disrespectful, but also doesn’t go along with whatever the person is saying.

I’ve been on both sides of this.

I hate to say but the majority of the time, they’re right. . .

I said the MAJORITY, though, not 100%. Sometimes, they’re wrong.

So really, the only real answer is something like, "You’ve had a lot more experience than I have. You may be correct, and time will tell. If you’re right, I’ll appreciate your words even more then; if you’re wrong, I’ll appreciate that you cared to try to help me as you thought best. . .just as I know that if you’re right, you’ll be mature enough not to say, ‘I told you so’ and that if you’re wrong, you’ll be mature enough to acknowledge that I after all did ‘know better’.

 

[DarkLight]

It sounds like you have already made your choice. Since I don’t know you or your situation, I will only say two things. You can disagree with her and still do as she says. This would show respect. Second, there is nothing in disobedience that is respectful, no matter how nicely you put it.

Why ought I to obey? It seems the greater disrespect would be in my continuing to act as a child and refusing to make my own choices lest my mother disapprove. It is not her place to keep attempting to compel me to obey. What would happen if I married, or joined a religious order - would I refrain from that as well because her “experience” says that I should not? Or would I have to continue to obey her?

 

[St_Francis]

That’s kind of the irritating part. It rather feels like “Because your young, it doesn’t matter how much you’ve thought this through or what your reasons are. You’re wrong because you’re only in your 20’s.”

This is weird for me, because i was once young, but now I’m old, so I have been on both sides.

On the side of the young, learning to be patient with our parents can be terribly difficult. What I finally figured out with my oldest is that, in the same way she was learning to be an adult, I was learning to be the parent of an adult. So sharing that made it easier to communicate in some ways.

And the people around us who are older do have something to teach us. The priblem is that sometimes they are not goid at articulating what’s going on inside them: their fears, usually. Like I was the girl who was teased, in a mean way, at school. One of my daughters, however, is usually one of the popular girls (but very nice). I could worry about some of what she does, because it wouldn’t have worked if I had done it, but i see that for her, it works. So I have to let go of my own fears.

I guess that one part of growing up is learning to say, I love you, but i need to try this–that is, if you have a reasonable plan and it is a plan to do something good (not something like moving in with a boyfriend), and then change the subject. Setting limits. Because you can’t let other people’s fears and concerns that are *their *problems keeep you from doing things. A father who failed in a business might be too afraid when his own child wants to start a business.

But at the same time, if you can dig a little and find out what they’re really saying, like if you want to get a tattoo of a star on your cheek, and they are saying you will regret it, well, what are they saying? Because sometimes they actually really do know something you won’t be able to know until you experience it, like marriage, or being 10 or 20 years older than you are. And they really do know you well enough to know that you are the type of person who won’t want a tattoo of a start in your cheek in 15 years, no matter how much you want one now.

But at some point, we have to let our children make their own mistakes, and they have to let us stew in our concerns while they do it. And it’s a part of growing up for each of them.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Well, is there? I have yet to come up with a reply that doesn’t sound rude or disrespectful, but also doesn’t go along with whatever the person is saying.

The answer is simple: Thank them for their opinion, and leave it at that.

 

[Sunbreak]

It depends on what the thing is that the older person is wanting you to do. If they are trying to pick a career for you or make some other major life choice, you can say “you may be right but I have to make my own decisions on this.” If they are just giving you unwanted advice, I’d just agree that what they said may be true and don’t argue but just do what you want anyway. Some things, though, are based on the older person’s life experience and you may find when you get older that they are indeed right.

 

[JM3]

Why ought I to obey? It seems the greater disrespect would be in my continuing to act as a child and refusing to make my own choices lest my mother disapprove. It is not her place to keep attempting to compel me to obey. What would happen if I married, or joined a religious order - would I refrain from that as well because her “experience” says that I should not? Or would I have to continue to obey her?

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7U.HTM

CCC 2217 As long as a child lives at home with his parents, the child should obey his parents in all that they ask of him when it is for his good or that of the family. "Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord."22 Children should also obey the reasonable directions of their teachers and all to whom their parents have entrusted them. But if a child is convinced in conscience that it would be morally wrong to obey a particular order, he must not do so.
As they grow up, children should continue to respect their parents. They should anticipate their wishes, willingly seek their advice, and accept their just admonitions. Obedience toward parents ceases with the emancipation of the children; not so respect, which is always owed to them. This respect has its roots in the fear of God, one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[DarkLight]

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7U.HTM

CCC 2217 As long as a child lives at home with his parents, the child should obey his parents in all that they ask of him when it is for his good or that of the family. "Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord."22 Children should also obey the reasonable directions of their teachers and all to whom their parents have entrusted them. But if a child is convinced in conscience that it would be morally wrong to obey a particular order, he must not do so.
As they grow up, children should continue to respect their parents. They should anticipate their wishes, willingly seek their advice, and accept their just admonitions. Obedience toward parents ceases with the emancipation of the children; not so respect, which is always owed to them. This respect has its roots in the fear of God, one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Good heavens, how old do you think I am? I’m nearer 30 than 18. The heart of the question is how I ought to show respect while not being bound to obedience as an independent adult.

 

[St_Francis]

Why ought I to obey? It seems the greater disrespect would be in my continuing to act as a child and refusing to make my own choices lest my mother disapprove. It is not her place to keep attempting to compel me to obey. What would happen if I married, or joined a religious order - would I refrain from that as well because her “experience” says that I should not? Or would I have to continue to obey her?

The Church teaches that a parent cannot interfere in adult decisions made by adult children insofar as the child is no longer under the parent’s authority.

So if you wanted to marry or join a convent, your mother would not have the right to interfere with that, and you have no obligation to obey her.

You show respect to your parents by treating them well and caring for them if they need help, not by agreeing with their choice of your future.

However, I suddenly recalled that you have an uncommon situation and went back and checked on a thread of yours I had read before, and now i see more fully that you and your mother have a hard time communicating. And you are in a tough situation regarding all this.

She probably is very concerned about you and not necessarily expressing it in the best way for you to receive it that way (I could be wrong, bit this does happen).

One thing that I learned with my mother is that I absolutely positively could not discuss anything negative with her. Nor could I really discuss any plans with her. I’m not saying she was wrong, bit we are extremely different people and in extremely different situations.

So I do not discuss these things with her. I do not mention any problems, nor do I mention any plans, except those to visit her

Could you do that? If you do not mention any problems, she may relax, and if you don’t tell her your plans ahead of time, then she won’t be able to opine about them.

But do give her a bit of warning if it looks like something big is coming up, like, my college career counselor suggested. i might be better suited to research than to sales, and I am looking into that, just so she won’t fall over in shock when you change majors (if you are now in school). Then you can reiterate that you are just looking into it, and not bring it up again until it’s a done deal, at which point she won’t really be able to say anything. It helps if you can bring in the expert opinion like My doctor thinks…

 

[JM3]

Good heavens, how old do you think I am? I’m nearer 30 than 18. The heart of the question is how I ought to show respect while not being bound to obedience as an independent adult.

As I said before, I don’t know you or your situation. You have not stated anything, before this, about yourself. As an independent adult, and I assume by this that you are not living in her home, obedience is not required of you. I would agree with TheWarriorMonk, “Thank them for their opinion, and leave it at that.”

(And I apologize for assuming that you were under 18.)

 

[DarkLight]

As I said before, I don’t know you or your situation. You have not stated anything, before this, about yourself. As an independent adult, and I assume by this that you are not living in her home, obedience is not required of you. I would agree with TheWarriorMonk, “Thank them for their opinion, and leave it at that.”

(And I apologize for assuming that you were under 18.)

I realize in retrospect that I should have stated my circumstances a bit better. I do not live under their roof. They do help out some financially, primarily with regards to healthcare, but I in large part support myself (they might contribute about $1500 a year). My frustration is in large part that my mother has not moved past seeing me as a rebellious teenager, and I don’t think my actions warrant that judgement.

You show respect to your parents by treating them well and caring for them if they need help, not by agreeing with their choice of your future.

However, I suddenly recalled that you have an uncommon situation and went back and checked on a thread of yours I had read before, and now i see more fully that you and your mother have a hard time communicating. And you are in a tough situation regarding all this.

She probably is very concerned about you and not necessarily expressing it in the best way for you to receive it that way (I could be wrong, bit this does happen).

This is the heart of it I think. I understand that she is concerned over me, but I feel she is often not yet ready to see me as an adult. I find the phrase frustrating because it comes across as ending the conversation with “I’m right and you’re wrong, you’re just too immature to see it”, when “Let’s agree to disagree” would be more appropriate. I was hoping for a polite, respectful answer that would nonetheless point out that phrase is kind of dismissive.

I feel like such phrases are often as much an expression of her own fear as of her experience. I often get the sense that she retreats to such phrases because she doesn’t want to admit that I may have perfectly valid reasons for making a choice she doesn’t like. She is afraid for me, and wants to protect me - but her fears are not always valid either, and she becomes too controlling in her desire to protect.

 

[St_Francis]

I realize in retrospect that I should have stated my circumstances a bit better. I do not live under their roof. They do help out some financially, primarily with regards to healthcare, but I in large part support myself (they might contribute about $1500 a year). My frustration is in large part that my mother has not moved past seeing me as a rebellious teenager, and I don’t think my actions warrant that judgement.

This is the heart of it I think. I understand that she is concerned over me, but I feel she is often not yet ready to see me as an adult. I find the phrase frustrating because it comes across as ending the conversation with “I’m right and you’re wrong, you’re just too immature to see it”, when “Let’s agree to disagree” would be more appropriate. I was hoping for a polite, respectful answer that would nonetheless point out that phrase is kind of dismissive.

I feel like such phrases are often as much an expression of her own fear as of her experience. I often get the sense that she retreats to such phrases because she doesn’t want to admit that I may have perfectly valid reasons for making a choice she doesn’t like. She is afraid for me, and wants to protect me - but her fears are not always valid either, and she becomes too controlling in her desire to protect.

Yes, and this is hard for both of you. I am quite reactive (working on that), so I know how very difficult it can be to not react in my usual way, but I know that it is easier when i change my idea of what the other person is expressing.

 

[underacloud]

This is the heart of it I think. I understand that she is concerned over me, but I feel she is often not yet ready to see me as an adult. I find the phrase frustrating because it comes across as ending the conversation with “I’m right and you’re wrong, you’re just too immature to see it”, when **“Let’s agree to disagree” **would be more appropriate. I was hoping for a polite, respectful answer that would nonetheless point out that phrase is kind of dismissive.

What’s the problem with you using this line? Is there a need for anything more than this?

There are any number of appropriate things you could say that end the conversation and yet show the respect that your mother deserves (if only for the reason she is your mother).

There have been some good suggestions. I’ll offer another one:

“Thank you for your advice, I will give it some further thought”

I’ll suggest two key concerns that I think you could reflect on:

a) Are you actually open to receiving your mother’s advice at all? Or is it such a problem between you that you feel the need to resist her advice regardless? I imagine if she feels that her advice is simply dismissed out of hand that it contributes further to the tension.

b) The fact that you cannot have mature discussions with your mother is itself a concern. How will your mother be able to respect you as an adult if you find it so difficult to conduct conversations as an adult? Why is it so difficult for you to find the right words? Why does she get under your skin so much? Perhaps if you can begin to demonstarate to your mother that you can conduct yourself with maturity and respect in your conversations with her, she will begin to shift her impression of you as her child who still needs her guidance to an adult ready to make your own decisions.

It should be possible to disagree with someone while still respecting them, and their viewpoint, and making this respect known. I hope you can find the right way to do this.

 

[DarkLight]

What’s the problem with you using this line? Is there a need for anything more than this?

There are any number of appropriate things you could say that end the conversation and yet show the respect that your mother deserves (if only for the reason she is your mother).

There have been some good suggestions. I’ll offer another one:

“Thank you for your advice, I will give it some further thought”

I’ll suggest two key concerns that I think you could reflect on:

a) Are you actually open to receiving your mother’s advice at all? Or is it such a problem between you that you feel the need to resist her advice regardless? I imagine if she feels that her advice is simply dismissed out of hand that it contributes further to the tension.

b) The fact that you cannot have mature discussions with your mother is itself a concern. How will your mother be able to respect you as an adult if you find it so difficult to conduct conversations as an adult? Why is it so difficult for you to find the right words? Why does she get under your skin so much? Perhaps if you can begin to demonstarate to your mother that you can conduct yourself with maturity and respect in your conversations with her, she will begin to shift her impression of you as her child who still needs her guidance to an adult ready to make your own decisions.

It should be possible to disagree with someone while still respecting them, and their viewpoint, and making this respect known. I hope you can find the right way to do this.

Well, a significant part of the problem for me is not the issues themselves, but that I feel like my mother is unwilling to drop a topic unless I agree with her. I’m tired of every family visit being a constant stream of criticism (and yes it is constant) on the exact same topics she’s been giving me the exact same advice on for YEARS! Not to mention she doesn’t listen to me enough half the time to be giving advice on what’s actually going on instead of the opinion she’s formed of it, and she’s mad at me for pointing that out.

I love her, she’s the only mother I have, and I really do want a relationship from her. But I feel like she’s set the bar for maturity so high, I have to be perfect in her eyes before I’ll be allowed to be an adult. That’s why the phrase I started the thread with is so frustrating - because the way it comes up, I feel like I’m automatically being dismissed as immature just for holding a different opinion.

I’d just like to be able to drop a topic without being told that I need to shut up and listen to her because every time I disagree I’m too immature or naive to actually know what I’m doing - no matter what reasons I give. And of course since she’s so experienced and I’m obviously ruining my life with my choices she has to keep harping on them until I finally “listen to her” and realize I’m just a stupid kid who was just too rebellious to realize she was right, because as far as I can tell that’s the only possibility in her mind.

I don’t want to give up on our relationship. I feel like there’s some small progress. But it is so small, and she is so hurtful to me even when she’s trying to “help”, that sometimes I wish she wasn’t around just so I could see the rest of my family without steeling myself to have my life picked apart and every last detail taken as proof of my rebellion.

 

[underacloud]

Fair enough, that sounds pretty hard to live with.

In that case, the other option you should consider is to simply shut down any such conversations. Refuse to be drawn into them, and if mum persists you politely excuse yourself. Always be polite. And always be firm. Just say something to the effect of “I’m sorry, but this is not a topic I’m willing to discuss”. Repeat as often as is neccessary until the topic is no longer raised.

 

[Xantippe]

underacloud said:

“Just say something to the effect of “I’m sorry, but this is not a topic I’m willing to discuss”. Repeat as often as is neccessary until the topic is no longer raised.”

Or alternately, just let her run out of steam.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I don’t want to give up on our relationship.

It doesn’t sound like you have a relationship in the first place given what you’ve stated, other than a biological one.

If you allow controlling people to walk all over you, they will walk all over you. You need to set boundaries. If you’ve mother, or anyone else, brings up inappropriate conversations, you need to tell them that you stop, or you need to leave. When that person understands where the boundaries of the relationship are, they can decide to either have a relationship or not; it is their decision.

BTW, I am having a business meeting with an out of control client this morning, for the purpose of spelling out boundaries if they want to have a continued relationship with me. Setting boundaries isn’t limited to family.