So is there an answer to "When you're older you'll realize I was right"?

[Xantippe]

TheWarriorMonk said:

“You need to set boundaries. If you’ve mother, or anyone else, brings up inappropriate conversations, you need to tell them that you stop, or you need to leave. When that person understands where the boundaries of the relationship are, they can decide to either have a relationship or not; it is their decision.”

Unfortunately, if the OP does this, she needs to be prepared to lose the small (but important) financial support she is getting. I feel like the $1500 is being turned into $15,000 worth of leverage in this situation.

 

[shainski]

Well, a significant part of the problem for me is not the issues themselves, but that I feel like my mother is unwilling to drop a topic unless I agree with her. I’m tired of every family visit being a constant stream of criticism (and yes it is constant) on the exact same topics she’s been giving me the exact same advice on for YEARS! Not to mention she doesn’t listen to me enough half the time to be giving advice on what’s actually going on instead of the opinion she’s formed of it, and she’s mad at me for pointing that out.

I love her, she’s the only mother I have, and I really do want a relationship from her. But I feel like she’s set the bar for maturity so high, I have to be perfect in her eyes before I’ll be allowed to be an adult. That’s why the phrase I started the thread with is so frustrating - because the way it comes up, I feel like I’m automatically being dismissed as immature just for holding a different opinion.

I’d just like to be able to drop a topic without being told that I need to shut up and listen to her because every time I disagree I’m too immature or naive to actually know what I’m doing - no matter what reasons I give. And of course since she’s so experienced and I’m obviously ruining my life with my choices she has to keep harping on them until I finally “listen to her” and realize I’m just a stupid kid who was just too rebellious to realize she was right, because as far as I can tell that’s the only possibility in her mind.

I don’t want to give up on our relationship. I feel like there’s some small progress. But it is so small, and she is so hurtful to me even when she’s trying to “help”, that sometimes I wish she wasn’t around just so I could see the rest of my family without steeling myself to have my life picked apart and every last detail taken as proof of my rebellion.

My dad was a lot like that. One could never win an argument with him on any topic. The best that one could hope for was that there would be a stalemate - and he would go onto something else.

I learned that at a very early age. I observed all the heartache my siblings had. And, at an early age, I adopted a strategy of not arguing with him. I didn’t try to win over his approval. If he gave me an opinion on any subject, I would graciously thank him for his (name removed by moderator)ut - even if i had no intention of using it. There was no need to point out that I thought his answer was ridiculous or didn’t fit my life.

So, I learned to even elevate him with a “That is really an interesting point, thank you.”.

The flaw is that you really want your mother to come around to your way of thinking. She won’t. So she has control over you as long as you need her approval. So, give some validity to her opinions.

I remember my dad saying he was just trying to stop me from making mistakes that he made. And I remember thinking “Well, if i don’t make some of my own mistakes, what am i going to tell my kids?”

To tell you the extreme I actually went to with my dad. I didn’t actually lie to him. But he didn’t even know my major in college until my senior year. I knew he assumed that i was in a particular major - because my grandfather, brothers and he all had that major. During my senior year, he said something like: “These are really unusual courses for an engineer to be taking.”. He was kind of floored when I said “I’m not in engineering; I never was.”

Good Luck, you have to find your way to deal with a strong-willed individual. But you wont’ change them.

 

[jmcrae]

TheWarriorMonk said:

“You need to set boundaries. If you’ve mother, or anyone else, brings up inappropriate conversations, you need to tell them that you stop, or you need to leave. When that person understands where the boundaries of the relationship are, they can decide to either have a relationship or not; it is their decision.”

Unfortunately, if the OP does this, she needs to be prepared to lose the small (but important) financial support she is getting. I feel like the $1500 is being turned into $15,000 worth of leverage in this situation.

It might be better just to figure out some other way to get the 1500 bucks - that way, she would lose her leverage, and the balance of power would tip away from the mother.

 

[DarkLight]

My dad was a lot like that. One could never win an argument with him on any topic. The best that one could hope for was that there would be a stalemate - and he would go onto something else.

I learned that at a very early age. I observed all the heartache my siblings had. And, at an early age, I adopted a strategy of not arguing with him. I didn’t try to win over his approval. If he gave me an opinion on any subject, I would graciously thank him for his (name removed by moderator)ut - even if i had no intention of using it. There was no need to point out that I thought his answer was ridiculous or didn’t fit my life.

So, I learned to even elevate him with a “That is really an interesting point, thank you.”.

The flaw is that you really want your mother to come around to your way of thinking. She won’t. So she has control over you as long as you need her approval. So, give some validity to her opinions.

I remember my dad saying he was just trying to stop me from making mistakes that he made. And I remember thinking “Well, if i don’t make some of my own mistakes, what am i going to tell my kids?”

To tell you the extreme I actually went to with my dad. I didn’t actually lie to him. But he didn’t even know my major in college until my senior year. I knew he assumed that i was in a particular major - because my grandfather, brothers and he all had that major. During my senior year, he said something like: “These are really unusual courses for an engineer to be taking.”. He was kind of floored when I said “I’m not in engineering; I never was.”

Good Luck, you have to find your way to deal with a strong-willed individual. But you wont’ change them.

It depends on what you mean by wanting her approval. I don’t need her to approve of my individual decisions. But I would like a relationship with her, and that means we need to be able to agree to disagree.

It might be better just to figure out some other way to get the 1500 bucks - that way, she would lose her leverage, and the balance of power would tip away from the mother.

It is more than just the money, I think. I am not in a good position financially or health-wise. I am very reluctant to cut off an avenue of support, merely because I don’t feel like I can guarantee my continued ability to support myself - including paying often expensive medical bills - when my health so far has proven quite difficult to get and keep under control. It is not easy to find extra money when your health sharply limits the kinds and amount of work you can do.

 

[jmcrae]

It is more than just the money, I think. I am not in a good position financially or health-wise. I am very reluctant to cut off an avenue of support, merely because I don’t feel like I can guarantee my continued ability to support myself - including paying often expensive medical bills - when my health so far has proven quite difficult to get and keep under control. It is not easy to find extra money when your health sharply limits the kinds and amount of work you can do.

Then you may simply have to put up with her meddling, and even follow some of her suggestions, in order to keep the peace.

 

[DarkLight]

Then you may simply have to put up with her meddling, and even follow some of her suggestions, in order to keep the peace.

I don’t like what I’m doing. I’m lying to her, because that’s the only way to keep up a relationship I can stand. She meddles still like I was 16. If she knew I was Catholic she would probably never speak to me again. Even little things - so much as wearing clothes that are not the color she likes - make her angry.

I hate living like this. I hate being forced to be a perpetual child because of things I cannot control, that I cannot count on actually taking care of myself like a real adult. I want some way to shift our relationship, yet I feel like in part my health keeps her seeing me as a child, because I can’t truly be independent. But I’ll only be a real adult when I am.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I hate living like this.

You’re an adult, and have 100% control over your own personal situation. You, and only, you, can make a decision to put up with the abuse, or stop it.

I want some way to shift our relationship, yet I feel like in part my health keeps her seeing me as a child, because I can’t truly be independent. But I’ll only be a real adult when I am.

FWIW, at your age, unless you have a rare genetic disorder, you can solve your own health problems. I use myself as an example. My family has a history of certain disorders, yet I have none of them. Why? I’m the only one of that part of the family that actively takes action to avoid the complications.

 

[DarkLight]

You’re an adult, and have 100% control over your own personal situation. You, and only, you, can make a decision to put up with the abuse, or stop it.

FWIW, at your age, unless you have a rare genetic disorder, you can solve your own health problems. I use myself as an example. My family has a history of certain disorders, yet I have none of them. Why? I’m the only one of that part of the family that actively takes action to avoid the complications.

You assume much. If I had not made every effort I could, I would not now be able to work at all, and probably would not have been for the last few years. Sometimes life isn’t fair - sometimes we don’t get the choices that we’d like. Sometimes the choice really is between putting up with someone who is controlling and critical, or risking having to live on the street. And sometimes, we make choices to “put up” with people who hurt us, because they are family and for all their flaws they are trying. While I think the financial situation does not help, I would not simply dump my family even if I did not need their help at all.

Do you think laying blame on someone whose situation you do not know is helpful? Do you think that the mere fact that you could manage to work and avoid complications, means that another could do the same? For me many of my symptoms are triggered merely by maintaining a normal workweek. I have PTSD - I may be young but I daresay I’ve been through more than many twice my age, and I did it while being told I was a liar for reporting abuse, tossed out of the community I grew up in, and treated like I was a nuisance for insisting on staying in school and working. Maybe that’s part of why I don’t like hearing people talk about their age, because I’ve seen people old enough to be my grandparents act like fools while saying they are old and wise.

 

[underacloud]

Sometimes life isn’t fair - sometimes we don’t get the choices that we’d like. Sometimes the choice really is between putting up with someone who is controlling and critical, or risking having to live on the street.

At the risk of sounding callous, it seems that you have summed up your situation here. If you rely on your family for support, you have little choice but to put up with them.

This doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t try to communicate better with your mum, but it does mean that you are restricted in the sorts of limits you can set for her if the two of you can’t get along better. Until you can support yourself independantly, this is your cross to bear.

 

[DarkLight]

At the risk of sounding callous, it seems that you have summed up your situation here. If you rely on your family for support, you have little choice but to put up with them.

This doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t try to communicate better with your mum, but it does mean that you are restricted in the sorts of limits you can set for her if the two of you can’t get along better. Until you can support yourself independantly, this is your cross to bear.

At this point I don’t know if I could or not. I might, and I suspect that will change to can within a year or two. I am just recently old enough to be off their insurance and on medicaid, and obamacare did make some changes that make it much easier for me.

It’s not the money making me ask how to deal with her. I think she truly is trying. Neither her nor my father’s family ever allowed their children to really “grow up”, and I think she doesn’t entirely know how. I think she senses that my life is in some ways less under control than is desirable, even if that is not my fault. And she tries to control it to make up for that. It is hard for a parent to accept that their children are grown up, and I think the situation makes it harder.

But at the heart of it…I accept the money more because it would hurt her to refuse, even if it would be a hardship on me to refuse it. I do love her, I do see signs that she’s trying to work with me. I just don’t always know how to handle the situation.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Do you think laying blame on someone whose situation you do not know is helpful? Do you think that the mere fact that you could manage to work and avoid complications, means that another could do the same?

Most people have issues. Example: When was the last time a dump truck ran over your car, split it in two, flattened it, and they had to cut you out of it? Yet I practice martial arts (obviously against doctor’s orders, given the injuries).

It is true that I don’t know other’s situations, nor does anyone else. However, my interpretation from your posts is that you are already defeated. Nobody here can help you. I suggest counseling and the appropriate D.O. to help you with your medical issues.

Good luck.

 

[DarkLight]

Most people have issues. Example: When was the last time a dump truck ran over your car, split it in two, flattened it, and they had to cut you out of it? Yet I practice martial arts (obviously against doctor’s orders, given the injuries).

It is true that I don’t know other’s situations, nor does anyone else. However, my interpretation from your posts is that you are already defeated. Nobody here can help you. I suggest counseling and the appropriate D.O. to help you with your medical issues.

Good luck.

Or maybe I would just rather not have ignorant advice about something that is kind of beside the point of what I actually asked.

I made the point already, I don’t think this is a relationship beyond saving, even if it is a difficult one. You can see my prior post for the rest of it.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Or maybe I would just rather not have ignorant advice about something that is kind of beside the point of what I actually asked.

If you don’t want advice, don’t ask for it. You’re being walked all over. Stop talking complaining about it and criticizing others; do something about it. You’re in the driver’s seat, yet you choose not to drive.

I made the point already, I don’t think this is a relationship beyond saving, even if it is a difficult one. You can see my prior post for the rest of it.

You have three choices:

1. 
   *]Continue the relationship as it stands
   *]Set boundaries in the relationship
   *]End the relationship
   
   You apparently won’t set boundaries nor end the relationship, so the relationship will continue on as is. That’s your decision. Live with it.

 

[DarkLight]

If you don’t want advice, don’t ask for it. You’re being walked all over. Stop talking complaining about it and criticizing others; do something about it. You’re in the driver’s seat, yet you choose not to drive.

You have three choices:

1. 
   *]Continue the relationship as it stands
   *]Set boundaries in the relationship
   *]End the relationship
   
   You apparently won’t set boundaries nor end the relationship, so the relationship will continue on as is. That’s your decision. Live with it.

1. 
   You are reading a lot into what I said. How on earth did you get that I don’t want to set boundaries when I started an entire thread on how to appropriately set boundaries? And you’re giving extremely biogted and insulting advice on something that has nothing at all to do with what I actually asked. And yes, acting like disabled people like me could just get over our problems is EXTREMELY bigoted, as is deciding they can’t be that serious based solely on age. I hope you never know anyone in real life with a serious disability - I’ve taken enough abuse from your kind, simply because reality doesn’t match up with someone else’s idea of what life “should” be like for my age.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

You are reading a lot into what I said. How on earth did you get that I don’t want to set boundaries when I started an entire thread on how to appropriately set boundaries? And you’re giving extremely biogted and insulting advice on something that has nothing at all to do with what I actually asked.

Take that anger and attitude and channel it at those that abuse you in real life, and you’re boundaries will be set. See, you can do it.

And yes, acting like disabled people like me could just get over our problems is EXTREMELY bigoted, as is deciding they can’t be that serious based solely on age. I hope you never know anyone in real life with a serious disability - I’ve taken enough abuse from your kind, simply because reality doesn’t match up with someone else’s idea of what life “should” be like for my age.

Hmmm…are you referring to someone like, say, my ex-sister-in-law? You know, the one that has been a wheelchair bound paraplegic since the age of 18. And the one that lived on her own out of state approximately 450 miles from the nearest family member, worked full time, raised a child from birth as single mother, and worked toward her master’s degree the entire time?

I use such people as motivation. Me? I have chronic back pain due to numerous damaged disks in my back and neck, and could easily apply for disability if I worked for someone else. No way I will ever use it as an excuse for anything, even when it finally gives and I can’t walk anymore, because of my ex-sister-in-law’s example. Never.

 

[DarkLight]

Take that anger and attitude and channel it at those that abuse you in real life, and you’re boundaries will be set. See, you can do it.

Hmmm…are you referring to someone like, say, my ex-sister-in-law? You know, the one that has been a wheelchair bound paraplegic since the age of 18. And the one that lived on her own out of state approximately 450 miles from the nearest family member, worked full time, raised a child from birth as single mother, and worked toward her master’s degree the entire time?

I use such people as motivation. Me? I have chronic back pain due to numerous damaged disks in my back and neck, and could easily apply for disability if I worked for someone else. No way I will ever use it as an excuse for anything, even when it finally gives and I can’t walk anymore, because of my ex-sister-in-law’s example. Never.

I’ve lived through abuse. What my mother is doing is not abuse - you’re the one putting that word on this. I have far more worthy targets to spend my anger on.

I call it bigoted because you label anyone who doesn’t meet your standards as making excuses. You may call it inspiration, but it sounds much more like guilt and blame. Trying to avoid “making excuses” very nearly cost me my life - and even then plenty of people were willing to leave me to die because I was a young adult and therefore must be faking. People who said the exact same thing as you did.

If you continue in these attitudes, whether you admit it or not, you support killing people like me. Because that is where your attitude leads. I almost died because people took your approach, and I have no pity for it.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I’ve lived through abuse.

While I was not abused, I was married to a person who was abused in a manner that no human being should ever be abused. As such, I seen the devastating effects it has on people firsthand.

What my mother is doing is not abuse - you’re the one putting that word on this. I have far more worthy targets to spend my anger on.

If you feel the need to address your anger at “targets” (i.e., people), you should consider working on that aspect of your personality. It is unhealthy.

If you continue in these attitudes, whether you admit it or not, you support killing people like me. Because that is where your attitude leads. I almost died because people took your approach, and I have no pity for it.

You simply have less than no idea of what I stand for. I choose my forum name here for a very specific reason, and I live up to the principles of those warrior monks before me. If I was by your side at your time of need, you simply would have never been abused. May God help those that willfully attempt to abuse the innocent and helpless in my presence, as well as presence of my brothers and sisters.

 

[EasterJoy]

Well, a significant part of the problem for me is not the issues themselves, but that I feel like my mother is unwilling to drop a topic unless I agree with her. I’m tired of every family visit being a constant stream of criticism (and yes it is constant) on the exact same topics she’s been giving me the exact same advice on for YEARS! Not to mention she doesn’t listen to me enough half the time to be giving advice on what’s actually going on instead of the opinion she’s formed of it, and she’s mad at me for pointing that out.

I love her, she’s the only mother I have, and I really do want a relationship from her. But I feel like she’s set the bar for maturity so high, I have to be perfect in her eyes before I’ll be allowed to be an adult. That’s why the phrase I started the thread with is so frustrating - because the way it comes up, I feel like I’m automatically being dismissed as immature just for holding a different opinion.

I’d just like to be able to drop a topic without being told that I need to shut up and listen to her because every time I disagree I’m too immature or naive to actually know what I’m doing - no matter what reasons I give. And of course since she’s so experienced and I’m obviously ruining my life with my choices she has to keep harping on them until I finally “listen to her” and realize I’m just a stupid kid who was just too rebellious to realize she was right, because as far as I can tell that’s the only possibility in her mind.

I don’t want to give up on our relationship. I feel like there’s some small progress. But it is so small, and she is so hurtful to me even when she’s trying to “help”, that sometimes I wish she wasn’t around just so I could see the rest of my family without steeling myself to have my life picked apart and every last detail taken as proof of my rebellion.

Mom, you are right more often than not, but for all your wisdom, you still need to learn this:
A man is not really a man until his mother lets him make his own mistakes.
If you aren’t ready to allow me to be a man today, when will that day be?
When are you going to stop making me choose between having a mother and being a man?

(This same thought applies to grown women.)

 

[DarkLight]

While I was not abused, I was married to a person who was abused in a manner that no human being should ever be abused. As such, I seen the devastating effects it has on people firsthand.

If you feel the need to address your anger at “targets” (i.e., people), you should consider working on that aspect of your personality. It is unhealthy.

Anger is proper against those who are guilty. Persons are the only rational targets of it.

You simply have less than no idea of what I stand for. I choose my forum name here for a very specific reason, and I live up to the principles of those warrior monks before me. If I was by your side at your time of need, you simply would have never been abused. May God help those that willfully attempt to abuse the innocent and helpless in my presence, as well as presence of my brothers and sisters.

I have heard all that before. Your words prior contradict you. You may consider that your standard, but your words prior deny that people like me could truly have been helpless or innocent in our time of greatest need. It was not during the abuse that I nearly died. It was after, when a day of work left me so tired that I could barely eat. When I could not even apply for welfare because my illness left me unable to make it through the process. And I was surrounded by people who claimed to want to help those who needed help. The problem was that I did not match their idea of someone who was helpless. I was too young, they said, to have that sort of problems. And besides I looked healthy. They held out inspirational stories where people survived without help, to say that I didn’t need it.

At the end of the day, the problem wasn’t that they didn’t want to help those who needed help. It was that they had such blinders on that too many people who needed help were instead judged guilty.

 

[DarkLight]

Mom, you are right more often than not, but for all your wisdom, you still need to learn this:
A man is not really a man until his mother lets him make his own mistakes.
If you aren’t ready to allow me to be a man today, when will that day be?
When are you going to stop making me choose between having a mother and being a man?

(This same thought applies to grown women.)

Thanks. I think she really is trying to listen. I just…it seems like we get into this trap so easily, where my attempts to set mature limits and be an adult only cause her to judge me more immature. And I’m not entirely sure how to escape that.