So I've reached an impasse

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As the title suggests, I’ve been struggling with the nature of faith, morality, and spirituality since I left grad school a few years ago.

A little exposition first. I was raised Catholic, and I received an excellent education through Catholic schools. I attended a Jesuit college, which contributed a great deal to my interest in philosophy and spirituality. I’ve spent many a summer day whiling away the hours reading Kant, Aquinas, Moore, and Loyola (while sneaking a few chapters of Tolkien, Lewis, and Asimov here and there). I’m a history buff, and I’ve always been fascinated with Church history. I feel very comfortable with Catholic theology, and while I find it difficult to agree with some of the Church’s stances on social issues, I feel that ultimately the Church has been a great force for morality, compassion, charity, and mercy in the world.

Here is where the impasse comes in: I do not believe in the supernatural. I tend to lump deities in ghosts, alien abductions, unicorns, etc… and it depresses me tremendously. I would love to live in a world where God existed and loved me, where I had value beyond my material acquisitions. Oh, I’ve seen the constant theist-atheist logical back and forth (its an internet cliche at this point), and I’m a veteran of these types of debates. My mind tells me that the theist’s position is too much of a stretch, too tenuous an argument to support so grand a proposition as the existence of a deity. And yet, I find that life as a non-believer is so hollow.

But I want to believe. The world is such a cold and lonely place, and the thought that I might spend the rest of my days without purpose beyond the petty materialism of worldly wisdom fills me with dread. I am an atheist, and it breaks my heart.

Apologies for being, um, dramatic, I guess. But I’m so lost and directionless right now. If anyone could offer some advice, or point me in the right direction to find it, I would be grateful.
 
I think a lot of people would say to pray. You are on a tremendous spiritual journey and I would also say pray to God and ask him to reveal himself to you. Pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
ggoods said:
As the title suggests, I’ve been struggling with the nature of faith, morality, and spirituality since I left grad school a few years ago.

A little exposition first. I was raised Catholic, and I received an excellent education through Catholic schools. I attended a Jesuit college, which contributed a great deal to my interest in philosophy and spirituality. I’ve spent many a summer day whiling away the hours reading Kant, Aquinas, Moore, and Loyola (while sneaking a few chapters of Tolkien, Lewis, and Asimov here and there). I’m a history buff, and I’ve always been fascinated with Church history. I feel very comfortable with Catholic theology, and while I find it difficult to agree with some of the Church’s stances on social issues, I feel that ultimately the Church has been a great force for morality, compassion, charity, and mercy in the world.

Here is where the impasse comes in: I do not believe in the supernatural. I tend to lump deities in ghosts, alien abductions, unicorns, etc… and it depresses me tremendously. I would love to live in a world where God existed and loved me, where I had value beyond my material acquisitions. Oh, I’ve seen the constant theist-atheist logical back and forth (its an internet cliche at this point), and I’m a veteran of these types of debates. My mind tells me that the theist’s position is too much of a stretch, too tenuous an argument to support so grand a proposition as the existence of a deity. And yet, I find that life as a non-believer is so hollow.

But I want to believe. The world is such a cold and lonely place, and the thought that I might spend the rest of my days without purpose beyond the petty materialism of worldly wisdom fills me with dread. I am an atheist, and it breaks my heart.

Apologies for being, um, dramatic, I guess. But I’m so lost and directionless right now. If anyone could offer some advice, or point me in the right direction to find it, I would be grateful.
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Oh friend! I understand where you are coming from. We are very similar in terms of interests, what we have read and what we have studied. A big difference, however, is that I believe whole hardheartedly in the supernatural and I can’t imagine what it would be like to not believe. That has to be a huge hole for you, because it can only be filled by one thing: The Holy Spirit.

I was just reading C.S. Lewis’s The Problem of Pain in bed last night, and there was a very interesting passage about the existence of souls (and thus, the supernatural). Lewis is so deeply logical, which many find contrary to faith, but he is able to take logic and deductive reasoning to argue in favor of faith. …I’m rambling now, I apologize. I will try to remember to come back tonight or tomorrow with the book so I can post some of the passages. I unfortunately don’t have it at work with me.

Or, maybe you should read the book yourself. 😃

For someone like you, with your thought process and means of absorbing information, I would recommend three Lewis books:
The Problem of Pain
The Abolition of Man
The Great Divorce

They are very short little books but packed full of logic-based Apologetics, except for the Great Divorce–that one is fictional yet addresses with incredible finesse and imagination the concept of heaven, hell, and Divine mercy.

Like I said, I’ll try to remember to come back for you.

Be well. Know that you are loved and cherished, and try to know that the Spirit does dwell within you, whether you believe it or not. 🙂
 
Hi G,

I am sorry that I can’t offer much in the way of advice. I am a brand new Catholic, so I don’t have any wisdom to share with you. I do, however, have compassion for where you are and wanted to let you know that. I will be praying for you.

As I reread your post, a few thoughts came to mind. First, although you are a cerebral person (I gather) I am not sure that a cerebral argument for the existence of God will be helpful. You have run up against the limitations of our rational mind. You have a sense of desolation about what that means. Even that, as far as I am concerned, is a huge positive. What would be far worse is if you were in the position you are in and simply shrugged and walked away.

Keep in mind, too, that many saints have had very dark times in their faith life. Blessed Teresa of Calcutta comes to mind. John of the Cross wrote of this. It could be that you are at a very important stage in your spiritual life right now. This moment of desolation could be preparing you for a deeper, stronger, faith. No one can predict how it will turn out, but I, for one, will pray for some kind of breakthrough.

Finally, I would encourage you to consider sharing all this with a priest. My guess is that many of them have gone through periods of doubt… and maybe even non-belief. It could be that you aren’t really supposed to work this all out by yourself. God may just choose to speak to you through someone else, since at the moment you are having a hard time conversing with him directly.

One last thing, have you been to adoration lately? What happens? How does it feel?

My prayers are with you,
Elizabeth John
 
I think that the question of the existence of God, like the questions of Pain and Evil, is one that each person must come to their own conclusion. Much greater minds than mine have examined and pondered and written on these questions, and if anyone had come to a definitive answer, the debate would have been over (probably centuries ago.) So, don’t expect THE answer here, no matter what anyone says.

Faith is said to be a gift. Why God gives some people this gift and not others is another mystery I cannot answer. The fact that you do not have the gift now doesn’t mean you won’t have it in the future. However, I think you must be open to receiving it. If you automatically reject out of hand any experience or possible evidence of the supernatural, you will never receive it.

I once heard a definition of agnostic as one who believes that certain questions do not have a provable answer. By this definition, I am an agnostic, because I do not believe that there will ever be reproducible proof that God or the supernatural exists. But I also believe that I have experienced enough subjective experiences that I am satisfied. As I freely acknowledge that any of my experiences are not scientifically reproducible, I usually don’t bring them up.

So after all that unhelpful commentary and advice, the only things I have to offer you are the words of our current pope, “Do good” and my prayers for you. If you follow his suggestion, and keep yourself open to the possibility that the supernatural exists, then I think your emptiness may be partially filled.

I hope this helps. In any case I will keep you in my prayers.

Tom A.
 
ggoods said:
But I want to believe. The world is such a cold and lonely place, and the thought that I might spend the rest of my days without purpose beyond the petty materialism of worldly wisdom fills me with dread. I am an atheist, and it breaks my heart.
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But GOD does not live in books. Seek Him in your neighbor. Find strength in the faith of your “brother”.
You have “reasoned” your way into an atheist corner. Now, love your way out of it. God is in the other person, that’s why Jesus told us to love. Not read, think, follow laws, observe the planets, but to love. There is nothing wrong with books, but if you spend enough time there it all just becomes “words, words, words”. For every argument, someone will find a counterargument, and you can always find an impasse.

You are not alone in need of a true faith community. This is the challenge of our age.

Go on a pilgrimage.
 
I think it may not be possible to understand spiritual matters intellectually. Instead the intellect is called to choose faith in order to truncate its constant internal bickering. Faith is a discipline by which one may become open to the things of the spirit which are the things of God. You are obviously interested in knowledge, so please know there is knowledge in the Kingdom of Heaven that is too vast to even be put into words on earth. It is beyond the intellect of the brain, but not the soul.

My recommendation is that you begin the process of quieting the intellect through contemplation. There are several good threads on contemplation here that can be found with a search.
 
You spent hours on Moore but only a few chapters of Lewis? No wonder you’re in trouble. What about Chesterton’s Orthodoxy and Everlasting Man? Why no mention of St Augustine, or Kreeft?
I suppose there may be a few people who never pray, and whom God never calls, but I presume you aren’t one of them. I also presume you are intelligent enough to realize it is impossible to prove something doesn’t exist–so if you are really denying God, which is the definition of an atheist–you must have some reason and agenda. The most common are:
you don’t like religious groups trying to make us obey even though God gave us freedom
you want to remove the power and influence of religious groups
you enjoy trying to confuse people
I have sympathy for agnostics because controversies among Christians can sometimes seem interminable and overwhelming (although, where were humans ever in agreement?) but the blasphemy of heretics may be unforgiveable. I pray you’ll keep praying.
 
ggoods said:
. . . I would love to live in a world where God existed and loved me, where I had value beyond my material acquisitions . . .
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I do not truly understand what you mean when you refer to a “value beyond (your) material aquisitions”

I am not sure how this could be an objective value,
now I can eat more and gain in weight
but accumulating more stuff, how does that make my value increase
if I am starving, food is valuable, but I am not more valuable having food
having possessions may fulfill my desires but they won’t make me more valuable

so is it that others see me as more valuable
if I have more, this is not a good thing
you are not more valuable, your suff is
and they want to be close to it

is it that you value those things
and not valuing yourself, you believe they can fill that void
or perhaps it’s pride
valuing the accomplishment of attaining those trinkets

fact is, sir, you are one of a kind
while someone can take your stuff, your job, even your life, nothing can replace you
the more rare something is, the greater its value - you are of infinite worth

so where is this? there alone, in your solitude who else knows your worth?
I suppose it is He who counts every one of your hairs,
knows your every thought, who has been with you since He created you,
who knows you far better than you know yourself

this being, these thoughts and emotions exist within His infinite sea of compassion
 
Z_Ninja said:
I think a lot of people would say to pray. You are on a tremendous spiritual journey and I would also say pray to God and ask him to reveal himself to you. Pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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Ultimately, this is the only answer. We can read and read and read about God through many, many books. But until we meet Him in prayer – until we encounter Him – all that knowledge is not going to bring us faith.
 
I am also a cradle Catholic that stuggles with it and has for years. I can’t offer advice how to be a good Catholic but the way I resolve it for my self is that I look at the whole thing as allegory.

At the heart of most (all?) religions is mystery. We won’t know it in this life. So what we have are sign posts that point a direction. It makes no difference to me if they are factual, I can look at other religions texts and stories and see the wisdom in them. Just as I can look at works of fiction and see the wisdom in them. I take what is useful and trust the process of life unfolding. My faith is things will unfold the way they are supposed to, even if they aren’t to my liking.

I know that many people here look down on his work, but I found great comfort in Joseph Campbell’s work. It helped me unpack my Catholic upbringing. We were raised in Catholicism so that is our language of the mystery. All the symbolism is engrained, just as English as language is. I also enjoy Thomas Mertons works as well.

I’m sure there are times when your heart feels open and you feel connected, that is my affirmation of faith. The “dumb stuff” of life falls away. I feel awash in the glow of the mystery that we are a part of.

Good luck 🙂
 
Wow! A number of really good, heartfelt responses.

Most of the suggestions offered are things I can do, including the really excellent suggestion that maybe I will find what I’m looking for in others, rather than in books. That is really something that struck me, and something I hadn’t considered before. Not that the book suggestions aren’t immensely appreciated, I guess I have some more reading to do as well.

Perhaps the thing that I am having the most difficulty in grasping is the concept of prayer. I mean, intellectually I know what the word means, but its not something I’ve ever done or experienced. Prayer in school was just the time to close your eyes and think about what was for lunch, not something I ever attempted with any real sincerity. Several folks mentioned that prayer is where you ‘meet’ or are ‘called by’ God. This is where the rubber hits the road for me, because I literally have no idea what meeting or being called by God would be like. I have never experienced the sacred like that, and I would dearly like to.

I’d also like to clear up any misconceptions folks may have about my skepticism. I’m not a skeptic because I’m malicious, or because I have some nefarious political agenda. It isn’t as if I’ve experienced something holy and rejected it because it didn’t fit with my desires, and I have no desire to confuse or hurt anyone who believes. I’m, in fact, deeply envious of believers, I’ve just always felt that the proposition that God exists didn’t have enough evidence to support it. But I’ve just lately found that kind of thinking to be too narrow, and I’ve just got this feeling…its hard to put into words. I just have this feeling that there is a real mystery here, that there is something more out there. I feel like the Catholicism I was raised with is special, and I have some deep affinity for it I can’t explain.

I’m intellectually exhausted by these things, and I’m thinking that more thinking is me just spinning my wheels. One of you kind posters said I’m on a journey, I guess its time to start walking and stop thinking about walking. All of your advice, well wishes, and prayers I accept with gratitude.
 
ggoods said:
Wow! A number of really good, heartfelt responses.

Most of the suggestions offered are things I can do, including the really excellent suggestion that maybe I will find what I’m looking for in others, rather than in books. That is really something that struck me, and something I hadn’t considered before. Not that the book suggestions aren’t immensely appreciated, I guess I have some more reading to do as well.

I’m intellectually exhausted by these things, and I’m thinking that more thinking is me just spinning my wheels. One of you kind posters said I’m on a journey, I guess its time to start walking and stop thinking about walking. All of your advice, well wishes, and prayers I accept with gratitude.
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As others have suggested…prayer…start with something simple, something from your heart.

One other thing I suggest…go out of your comfort zone…go out into the street…see a homeless man, give him a piece of bread to eat…and see how appreciative he is with what you gave him.

Go volunteer for a homeless shelter…volunteer at a catholic parish where they have a feed the homeless day…there you will see how happy the volunteers are in feeding the poor…and see how the poor/homeless feel happy just being given a meal…see how the volunteersgladly give their time…this is love in action…love of your fellow man…those who have more in life…gladly give to those who have less.

Anyway, this is just one suggestion.
 
ggoods said:
Wow! A number of really good, heartfelt responses.

Most of the suggestions offered are things I can do, including the really excellent suggestion that maybe I will find what I’m looking for in others, rather than in books. That is really something that struck me, and something I hadn’t considered before. Not that the book suggestions aren’t immensely appreciated, I guess I have some more reading to do as well.

Perhaps the thing that I am having the most difficulty in grasping is the concept of prayer. I mean, intellectually I know what the word means, but its not something I’ve ever done or experienced. Prayer in school was just the time to close your eyes and think about what was for lunch, not something I ever attempted with any real sincerity. Several folks mentioned that prayer is where you ‘meet’ or are ‘called by’ God. This is where the rubber hits the road for me, because I literally have no idea what meeting or being called by God would be like. I have never experienced the sacred like that, and I would dearly like to.

I’d also like to clear up any misconceptions folks may have about my skepticism. I’m not a skeptic because I’m malicious, or because I have some nefarious political agenda. It isn’t as if I’ve experienced something holy and rejected it because it didn’t fit with my desires, and I have no desire to confuse or hurt anyone who believes. I’m, in fact, deeply envious of believers, I’ve just always felt that the proposition that God exists didn’t have enough evidence to support it. But I’ve just lately found that kind of thinking to be too narrow, and I’ve just got this feeling…its hard to put into words. I just have this feeling that there is a real mystery here, that there is something more out there. I feel like the Catholicism I was raised with is special, and I have some deep affinity for it I can’t explain.

I’m intellectually exhausted by these things, and I’m thinking that more thinking is me just spinning my wheels. One of you kind posters said I’m on a journey, I guess its time to start walking and stop thinking about walking. All of your advice, well wishes, and prayers I accept with gratitude.
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When I was in college, I was going through a similarly skeptical patch. What shook me out of it was going to Church and sitting in front of the tabernacle. I was overcome with the feeling of Presence. I just knew I wasn’t the only one sitting there. My life hasn’t been the same since.

Prayer can be tricky as it’s so easy to get distracted and have it turn into “silent-time-where-I-think-about-my-day” or “nap time” (:o). My best advice is to schedule a block of time each day (fifteen minutes is good to start out with) and consistently spend that time in prayer. If it helps, make the commitment to at least do this for 50 days (sometimes it is easy to get overwhelmed at the thought of doing this in perpetuity and so it becomes easier to give up more quickly; it can be helpful to give yourself a forseeable end date at which point you can reevaluate).

If you feel silly or it seems like you’re just getting distracted, stick with it anyway. It’s only 50 days, after all.

And you might start out with a simple, honest prayer: “Lord, I am not sure if you are really there or not. But here I am. Please bless this time. Lead me closer to you. Teach me how to pray.” Then listen.

After 50 days, see where you are at.
 
ggoods said:
This is where the rubber hits the road for me, because I literally have no idea what meeting or being called by God would be like. I have never experienced the sacred like that, and I would dearly like to.
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You aren’t alone in that. I suspect that many people who have had “contact” of some sort with God, saints, demons, or whatever, are being fooled by their own emotions.

It’s not that I don’t believe in God, but I simply get no emotional “high” or consolation from prayer or attending Mass and receiving Jesus in communion.

In spite of that - or maybe because of that - I am a firm believer. My belief is intellectual rather than emotional, but I think it is stronger because of that.

But, like you, I would dearly love to experience God in a more personal way.
 
I get what you said about prayer. I have struggled at prayer, it doesn’t come naturally to me at all. However, when my life has been difficult, I have seen the tangible results that prayer brings. I have also improved with the understanding that prayer isn’t necessarily a sentimental thing. It can be like thinking through something intellectually with an openness to God and a desire for truth.

I would suggest a simple daily prayer, “God, if you exist, help me to see the truth as you see it.”
 
Prayer is the simple, basic formula for developing a relationship with God.

Think of it this way. Let us pretend that you and I just met for the first time. We might exchange some small talk, putting our feelers out a little bit to get to know one another. And sometimes, small talk can feel a little uncomfortable because you’re unsure what to say. But after time, small talk leads to real talk. Real talk leads to a mutual understanding of one another. A mutual understanding can lead to me anxiously awaiting to hear your opinion, or you thinking, “I can’t wait to tell Ophie about this!” after something has happened to you. And before you know it, there is a real friendship in place. And that friendship is maintained through communication.

Starting prayer is that “awkward small talk” phase of building the relationship. But without the communication, it is pretty darn hard to have any functional relationship with God outside of the merely intellectual level. (i.e. I know God exists, but I simply don’t feel Him.)

Sometimes, my prayer life still reverts to the very basic. I will just talk. What I am thinking, what I am feeling, etc. But as you grow, and as the relationship grows, your prayer will likely turn from ‘I’ statements to ‘You’ statements. “What do You want,” or “How can I serve You,” or “You are so good.” It’s really awesome stuff.

You really are on a journey as others have stated, and holy buckets do you have something amazing in store for you. I am excited for you. I can just feel it in your words that you are a truly good person who is genuinely, legitimately seeking. You absolutely will not be let down.
 
God loves you. Will you receive his love? Pray. Choose life or death. Seek and you will find. The only thing that can separate us from the love of God is if we turn our back on his love. God is love and he who loves remains in God. We love because he first loved us. Perfect love casts out all fear.
 
Ophelia23 said:
Prayer is the simple, basic formula for developing a relationship with God.

Think of it this way. Let us pretend that you and I just met for the first time. We might exchange some small talk, putting our feelers out a little bit to get to know one another. And sometimes, small talk can feel a little uncomfortable because you’re unsure what to say. But after time, small talk leads to real talk. Real talk leads to a mutual understanding of one another. A mutual understanding can lead to me anxiously awaiting to hear your opinion, or you thinking, “I can’t wait to tell Ophie about this!” after something has happened to you. And before you know it, there is a real friendship in place. And that friendship is maintained through communication.

Starting prayer is that “awkward small talk” phase of building the relationship. But without the communication, it is pretty darn hard to have any functional relationship with God outside of the merely intellectual level. (i.e. I know God exists, but I simply don’t feel Him.)

Sometimes, my prayer life still reverts to the very basic. I will just talk. What I am thinking, what I am feeling, etc. But as you grow, and as the relationship grows, your prayer will likely turn from ‘I’ statements to ‘You’ statements. “What do You want,” or “How can I serve You,” or “You are so good.” It’s really awesome stuff.

You really are on a journey as others have stated, and holy buckets do you have something amazing in store for you. I am excited for you. I can just feel it in your words that you are a truly good person who is genuinely, legitimately seeking. You absolutely will not be let down.
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That’s a great way to put it. 👍
 
Again I’m not a model Catholic and as the Lord’s prayer goes, thy will be done. Prayer isn’t going to change that, so prayer is for your benefit. I look at prayer as assessment, reflection and meditation. It’s a break, a moment to step outside and look back in. See what you can and can’t change and a resolve to move forward. It’s important to the spirit/mind as exercise is to the body.
 
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