So... Protestant ticks off Satan on video?

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youtube.com/watch?v=PNcFactCp0w&feature=player_embedded

This is Protestant Pastor Paul Begley doing a video about a new Bible which removes the words “Father” and “Son” in order to keep from “offending” the mohammedan milieu.

Well, Paul (rightly) lambasts this insidious book and the people who made it. He then basically “challenges” the devil to keep messing with the Word of God.

Well, watch the whole thing if you want, but start around the 6 minute mark.

A crucifix goes toppling off the shelf. Now, there is no way that thing fell over on its own in the direction it did, given the direction it was leaning. The weight of it is further impediment to such an event.

Unless this was staged with monofilament line, and Pastor Begley thinks it is OK to throw a crucifix on the floor to make a point, well, um, yeah.

Given the topic relating to the video, I put it here in Sacred Scripture. If needing to be moved, please do.

I do not post this video in support of Paul Begley, but for discussion on the event as it relates to Scripture.

Very interesting.
 
Well, they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. I don’t see why the devil wouldn’t attack them, too. It could be a hoax, sure, (although judging by the way it fell it seems odd to me that it would) but regardless, the pastor’s message is good and I think the devil is certainly “annoyed” to use an anthropomorphism at him… 😉
 
This reminds me of an experience I had!

There was a time when I fell away from ‘religion’, as it were. I refused to touch the Bible. Rarely prayed… only went to church because they paid me (I am a pianist).

One afternoon I was alone in the church preparing for the service. I was playing the piano. Suddenly one of the altar candles (long, heavy candle) came flying off the piano. Made a straight line to the pews and slammed into the front pew so loud that the divider shook.

I was horrified. Haha. Weirdest thing ever (and no, the force of my playing wasn’t moving the piano so I really don’t know what made that candle move).

That same week I was in a grocery store and an apple flew at me in the same manner (straight line, not arc of descent as you normally see, but straight at me and then straight down after inexplicably missing me). Yeah, it was a weird week and because of these incidents I started joking that I have my own gravitational pull. 😉
 
jonbhorton said:
youtube.com/watch?v=PNcFactCp0w&feature=player_embedded

This is Protestant Pastor Paul Begley doing a video about a new Bible which removes the words “Father” and “Son” in order to keep from “offending” the mohammedan milieu.

Well, Paul (rightly) lambasts this insidious book and the people who made it. He then basically “challenges” the devil to keep messing with the Word of God.

Well, watch the whole thing if you want, but start around the 6 minute mark.

A crucifix goes toppling off the shelf. Now, there is no way that thing fell over on its own in the direction it did, given the direction it was leaning. The weight of it is further impediment to such an event.

Unless this was staged with monofilament line, and Pastor Begley thinks it is OK to throw a crucifix on the floor to make a point, well, um, yeah.

Given the topic relating to the video, I put it here in Sacred Scripture. If needing to be moved, please do.

I do not post this video in support of Paul Begley, but for discussion on the event as it relates to Scripture.

Very interesting.
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I personally think it was genuine. The look on his face and his body language was too primitive and naturally responsive to have been practiced out. He reacted like he didn’t know it was going to happen (fright/flight).
 
I have never really noticed any discussion on Fr. Malachi Martin here, but listening to him on the subject of demonic presence describes the hurling objects, though I can’t recall how he stated they reacted in regards to an unsecured crucifix. I don’t know what difference the object having been blessed by a priest might make in this reaction.

If this was indeed a spiritually affected phenomenal event, there are only two choices in the spiritual realm, and blessed or not, I can’t see any good spirit/angel casting down a crucifix to the floor. I ain’t no math genius, but, that only leaves the bad guys.

So, while I agree Protestants are excellent about preaching the name of Christ, particularly in this man’s circles, I wonder and fear for their overall understanding of certain things. I wonder if they realize how quickly things degenerate into such spectacles as this yahoo:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNGPjFYdgJw

I have to wonder if this man even realizes the sort of horrible Judgement he is heaping on himself. What sort of false spirits he is toying with. With his “healings” and “imparting of the Holy Spirit” so-called, what sort of demonic trash is this guy, and many others like him, dumping into the populations. And we wonder why America is technically a majority Christian and yet, look at where we are.

What sort of judgements are about to be poured out on this nation in the form of such displays and even more horrifying persecution brought on any who claim Christ, so many false Christs shall be, and are, invented. It’s-OK-to-be-gay Jesus, I-went-to-the-altar-and-do-what-I-still-want Jesus, all-you-need-is-my-autobiography-translated-by-King-James Jesus; Host-particles-in-the-carpet Jesus, etc.

It can’t be good, what’s coming. While often physically visible and regrettably tangible, I wonder what sort of evil this way comes.

When one consider Protestants exposing such movements, which are gaining ground and spawn more tame versions of such equally milquetoast and false Christianity, you only have to wonder how far off the mark this stuff really is, for Rome is not mentioned once as an oft-cast target of opportunity. DIY Jesus, demonic possession all but guaranteed:

youtube.com/watch?v=eBpw2oQrvMM&list=PL78EC3BC47155A112&index=4&feature=plpp_video

youtube.com/watch?v=BCcGaTRwG_4&feature=related

“Mama, what have we done?”-Pink Floyd
 
jonbhorton said:
youtube.com/watch?v=PNcFactCp0w&feature=player_embedded

This is Protestant Pastor Paul Begley doing a video about a new Bible which removes the words “Father” and “Son” in order to keep from “offending” the mohammedan milieu.

Well, Paul (rightly) lambasts this insidious book and the people who made it. He then basically “challenges” the devil to keep messing with the Word of God.

Well, watch the whole thing if you want, but start around the 6 minute mark.

A crucifix goes toppling off the shelf. Now, there is no way that thing fell over on its own in the direction it did, given the direction it was leaning. The weight of it is further impediment to such an event.

Unless this was staged with monofilament line, and Pastor Begley thinks it is OK to throw a crucifix on the floor to make a point, well, um, yeah.

Given the topic relating to the video, I put it here in Sacred Scripture. If needing to be moved, please do.

I do not post this video in support of Paul Begley, but for discussion on the event as it relates to Scripture.

Very interesting.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry to burst bubbles here, but this is a hoax.

The crucifix shown here is, in his other videos, shown hanging on the wall… somehow it is conveniently moved for just this video.

The coffee cup next to the crucifix moves moments before the crucifix does, indicating some sort of trigger mechanism (I would suggest a fishing line string which was pulled taught and accidently bumped the handle of the cup)

The timing is impeccable… why did a man going through a solid rant suddenly decide to pause and dramatically look down into his bible? Why did the devil choose that perfectly timed moment to do something like that?

The reaction is silly… he looks at the crucifix, and then IMMEDIATELY his first thought is to make a ludicrous B-movie hollywood face at the camera. Any person in a real situation would have jumped up or acted at least put off… he acted smoothly and had in mind right away to make a demonstration to the camera.

Finally, the action is pointless. If that was the devil, then the devil is the stupidest creature ever (which we know is not true). This “devil” failed to do anything to stop the preacher from preaching, having “attacked” at the perfectly timed end of the sermon, and would have in fact validated the preacher… convenient for a youtube flop who’s looking to boost the number of people who watch his videos…
 
promethius said:
I’m sorry to burst bubbles here, but this is a hoax.

The crucifix shown here is, in his other videos, shown hanging on the wall… somehow it is conveniently moved for just this video.

The coffee cup next to the crucifix moves moments before the crucifix does, indicating some sort of trigger mechanism (I would suggest a fishing line string which was pulled taught and accidently bumped the handle of the cup)

The timing is impeccable… why did a man going through a solid rant suddenly decide to pause and dramatically look down into his bible? Why did the devil choose that perfectly timed moment to do something like that?

The reaction is silly… he looks at the crucifix, and then IMMEDIATELY his first thought is to make a ludicrous B-movie hollywood face at the camera. Any person in a real situation would have jumped up or acted at least put off… he acted smoothly and had in mind right away to make a demonstration to the camera.

Finally, the action is pointless. If that was the devil, then the devil is the stupidest creature ever (which we know is not true). This “devil” failed to do anything to stop the preacher from preaching, having “attacked” at the perfectly timed end of the sermon, and would have in fact validated the preacher… convenient for a youtube flop who’s looking to boost the number of people who watch his videos…
Click to expand...
I’m not seeing that at all. This seems real to me, and how do you know how each person would react. I don’t think jumping up and down would be my reaction. I would probably be shocked/scared and would just sit there for a while in disbelief. Which is exactly what he did. This seems real to me.

Also, the coffee cup doesn’t move at all before the crucifix. Only when the crucifix hits the cabinet on the way down, the cup bounces slightly.
 
Maybe it’s a hoax, maybe it’s not. Hard to say. I’d hate to judge whether or not he’s lying.

If it’s a hoax it was unnecessary to prove his point.
It it’s not a hoax it would be a shame if we were to call him a liar.
 
The first instance I can find of the crucifix in question is indeed on the wall; interestingly, the entire layout of the man’s office has changed over time, so I find no suspect action there.

The crucifix in question is then seen leaning for the first time, albeit in a different place, as of 6 months ago. Around that time, Begley apparently moves to a green-screen sort of effect for videos. This is repeated throughout the time period randomly until A.D. 2011, 5 September, where the crucifix makes its first appearance in the location of the original video linked in the OP.

You can see this here: youtube.com/watch?v=rs0a25y7clg&feature=youtu.be

As such, I must disagree with Promethius’ rather half-cocked assessment.

Given the combination of video style, office decoration being rather unset, and the fact that I simply don’t see this man hurling a crucifix to the floor to make a point - despite severe disagreement with 99% of his ramblings - and such, I must conclude Promethius incorrect in the manner he developed his objection.
 
jonbhorton said:
Given the combination of video style, office decoration being rather unset, and the fact that I simply don’t see this man hurling a crucifix to the floor to make a point - despite severe disagreement with 99% of his ramblings - and such, I must conclude Promethius incorrect in the manner he developed his objection.
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You are both missing the point of why someone would pull a hoax like this… probably because you haven’t read up on youtube advertising as a means of income.

Let me break it down for you: if you get more than 10,000 views on a video, youtube will contact you to offer setting up an advertising contract… as in you get money for people watching your videos from that point on. The ads displayed on the page or before the video (if a video ad) will then yield revenue for the account holder.

The hoax is not to prove a point, it’s to get viewers so that this hole in the wall online-preacher will earn paychecks off of his youtube channel. If you can get enough viewers, the paychecks are even quite lucrative. Philly D, the host of the news show SXEPHIL, stated the other day on one of his videos that he makes more money than a doctor off of his youtube activities.
 
promethius said:
You are both missing the point of why someone would pull a hoax like this… probably because you haven’t read up on youtube advertising as a means of income.

Let me break it down for you: if you get more than 10,000 views on a video, youtube will contact you to offer setting up an advertising contract… as in you get money for people watching your videos from that point on. The ads displayed on the page or before the video (if a video ad) will then yield revenue for the account holder.

The hoax is not to prove a point, it’s to get viewers so that this hole in the wall online-preacher will earn paychecks off of his youtube channel. If you can get enough viewers, the paychecks are even quite lucrative. Philly D, the host of the news show SXEPHIL, stated the other day on one of his videos that he makes more money than a doctor off of his youtube activities.
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I’ll concede the point, as I hadn’t considered that angle. I hesitate to think that the man would cast a crucifix to the floor on purpose through whatever means to merely trump up the income provided. Now, let’s see where we can go as far as fakery/real deal events vs message vs how this relates to scripture, particularly how it might be twisted, precedent, etc.

I have not, and do not, pretend to defend Paul Begley. If the event was real, it was in spite of his “ministry” and not necessarily a judgement on the efficacy of his ministry in contest to the devil.

A true seeker of God must eventually be honest with themselves and move beyond the factoid-prophecy style of people like him. It can certainly serve as a stepping stone to exploring for the fullness of truth, or it can utterly hamper it. What it never does, fortunately, is kowtow to mohammedanism, nor forget to mention Jesus Christ. In that, it can serve a little good despite its inherent immaturity.

Now, how can this relate to sacred scripture, considering?
 
jonbhorton said:
I hesitate to think that the man would cast a crucifix to the floor on purpose through whatever means to merely trump up the income provided.
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Many people have done awful things for the love of money. Not judging either way, but this particular defense of the vid’s validity doesn’t hold much water, to my mind at least.
 
promethius said:
I’m sorry to burst bubbles here, but this is a hoax.

The crucifix shown here is, in his other videos, shown hanging on the wall… somehow it is conveniently moved for just this video.

The coffee cup next to the crucifix moves moments before the crucifix does, indicating some sort of trigger mechanism (I would suggest a fishing line string which was pulled taught and accidently bumped the handle of the cup)

The timing is impeccable… why did a man going through a solid rant suddenly decide to pause and dramatically look down into his bible? Why did the devil choose that perfectly timed moment to do something like that?

The reaction is silly… he looks at the crucifix, and then IMMEDIATELY his first thought is to make a ludicrous B-movie hollywood face at the camera. Any person in a real situation would have jumped up or acted at least put off… he acted smoothly and had in mind right away to make a demonstration to the camera.

Finally, the action is pointless. If that was the devil, then the devil is the stupidest creature ever (which we know is not true). This “devil” failed to do anything to stop the preacher from preaching, having “attacked” at the perfectly timed end of the sermon, and would have in fact validated the preacher… convenient for a youtube flop who’s looking to boost the number of people who watch his videos…
Click to expand...
I’m with you. You made good points. However, if it wasn’t staged, it most likely fell because he was screaming and the vibration caused it to shake (as the crucifix was just leaning against the wall).
 
I am leaning more closely towards it being a hoax. As others have said, he pauses right as this occurs. Throughout the whole video, he never stops his “sermon” once and you never have a pause in his speech. The only time he ever stops is when it would seem he is waiting for the crucifix to fall. I feel sorry for this man if it truly is a hoax. That would mean that he has fallen into the hypocrisy of many other televangelists and faith healers. Either way, we can only pray for this man.
 
First of all, he teaches a heretical doctrine of once saved, always saved known as OSAS, a form of antinomianism.

Secondly, it is very strange that a Protestant and in this particular case a Baptist pastor would display a cross with the figure of Jesus on it. I don’t know of any Protestant church that has this type of Cross. Protestants focus on the resurrection of Christ symbolized by the empty cross and to display a figure of Christ would be considered idolatry especially in the Baptist Church which considers the Catholic Church to be the whore of Babylon.

Thirdly, if you have ever been in deliverance ministry, the one thing you don’t do is to mock, dare or make fun of Satan. In Jude 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”d] Trust me on this.

So, yes I believe it was staged.
 
I was unaware you could make money on YouTube… in fact, I have a hard time believing it?

But I don’t tend to be terribly net saavy… so…
 
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