So, there's this guy

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Laktian

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… and we’ve been dating for a few months. We’re both Catholic - he is a cultural Catholic and I am a convert. Prior to dating me, he was in a long-term sexual relationship of 5+ years with his ex-fianceé. I basically told him straight-up from the beginning that pre-marital sex isn’t for me. He said it was okay although he’s tested the waters a couple of times since, I’ve stood firm in my convictions - it’s not going to happen, pure and simple.

Being chaste in dating is hugely important to me, but he talks of the need to keep the passion alive without sex and wants us to find a good “compromise”. He wants us to engage in french kissing and said it would be so nice to wake up next to me in his bed! I said that I don’t believe in that, he says “some people’s faith is deeper than others”.

As far as I’m concerned, dating - or courting, if you will - should be as simple and innocent as possible. A quick kiss on the lips (not french kissing!) and a hug (not in a bed!) snd maybe some hand-holding and a lot of chatting and spending time together… is this a wrong view of Catholic dating?

Usually I’m so good with knowing what’s right and what’s not right for me, and I keep thinking that I should end it with him, but at the same time, I think what if this is the person God wants me to marry and I kick him to the curb like that. I’m totally irrational about the whole thing and would appreciate any non-bias (name removed by moderator)ut - the more honest, the better!
 
It sounds like he is trying to pressure you into having sex. Just the comments about wanting to sleep in the same bed. He spent five years fornicating with his ex, that should tell you something. I think the fact that something is telling you to leave him is a sign that he isn’t the right one for you. Pray about it but I think you already know the answer. May Almighty God bless you and keep you in your journey.
 
Welome to the forms, Laktian!

It sounds like you have set healthy boundaries for a dating relationship. He is right that some people’s faith is deeper than others. If you take your faith more seriously than he does, this will be the first of many conflicts. If he is willing to pressure you regarding sexuality during dating, he is likely to pressure you to go against your faith in other areas as well. You might want to give him a chance to redeem himself, but God will not expect you to marry someone who pressures you to go against your faith.
 
Laktian said:
As far as I’m concerned, dating - or courting, if you will - should be as simple and innocent as possible. A quick kiss on the lips (not french kissing!) and a hug (not in a bed!) snd maybe some hand-holding and a lot of chatting and spending time together… is this a wrong view of Catholic dating?
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No, I would say that your limits are exactly right.

My advice would be:

(1) Don’t give in to him pressuring you to go beyond the limits you mentioned in the quote above.

(2) Consider whether he may not be the right guy for you, especially if he continues to pressure you in this way. The fact that he is only a “cultural Catholic” while you apparently are more serious about your faith could cause major conflicts after marriage too. For example, will you agree on avoiding contraception, on raising your kids Catholic, on praying together as a family, on going to Mass every Sunday, on shielding your kids from inappropriate movies and TV, etc.?

However, maybe he is worth continuing to date, though it doesn’t sound like it just based on what you have said. Maybe you could give him a good book or CD on the Catholic faith, from a convert’s perspective or an apologetics perspective (maybe one of the “Surprised by Truth” books?), and see if it ignites his faith at all. Maybe you could also give him a book or CD about Catholic sexual teaching and chastity, and see if he at least intellectually agrees with the teaching (even if he finds it hard to live out in practice).
 
In marriage, the spouses work to get each other to Heaven. Ask yourself, if someone wants you to compromise your faith, is it likely they will help you get to heaven in marriage?
 
Ask yourself, why would God want you to be with someone who is constantly trying to tempt you? Considering his past, french kissing and having you in his bed definitely sound like he’s trying to lead you into sin! Someone who cares about you and your soul would NOT do that. And his “some people’s faith is deeper than others” comment is a total red flag because it sounds like he’s more than willing to try and drag you down with him. If he was in a sexual relationship with a woman for 5 + years, it would appear that he’s driven by his own wants and needs, not what God wants. By him continuing mortal sin for over five years is a pretty good indication that this is definitely not the man God has in mind for you!
 
Laktian said:
… and we’ve been dating for a few months. We’re both Catholic - he is a cultural Catholic and I am a convert. Prior to dating me, he was in a long-term sexual relationship of 5+ years with his ex-fianceé. I basically told him straight-up from the beginning that pre-marital sex isn’t for me. He said it was okay although he’s tested the waters a couple of times since, I’ve stood firm in my convictions - it’s not going to happen, pure and simple.
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It’s a good thing what you did.
Being chaste in dating is hugely important to me, but he talks of the need to keep the passion alive without sex and wants us to find a good “compromise”. He wants us to engage in french kissing and said it would be so nice to wake up next to me in his bed! I said that I don’t believe in that, he says “some people’s faith is deeper than others”.
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It’s not really compromise. It’s about him getting part of what he wants where he can’t get all. And about you giving some where you won’t give all. It’s not really a give-and-take.

His needs are not actually illegitimate, he simply must realise that the proper place where he can find either excitement or release of the sexual kind is marriage.

As for “keeping the passion alive”, that seems to be keeping up the sexual tension between you, which will actually expose you to greater temptations again and again. Actually, if you don’t, “keep the passion alive,” in that sense, life will become easier for you.
As far as I’m concerned, dating - or courting, if you will - should be as simple and innocent as possible.
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I agree.
A quick kiss on the lips (not french kissing!) and a hug (not in a bed!) snd maybe some hand-holding and a lot of chatting and spending time together… is this a wrong view of Catholic dating?
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No, it’s not. And it’s definitely closer to being right than the opposing view is.
Usually I’m so good with knowing what’s right and what’s not right for me, and I keep thinking that I should end it with him, but at the same time, I think what if this is the person God wants me to marry and I kick him to the curb like that.
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Be careful with that. We humans make up ideology to back up things we want. It’s easy to think that God wants us to do something that we want to do as it makes us feel more legitimate about it.
 
Laktian said:
… and we’ve been dating for a few months. We’re both Catholic - he is a cultural Catholic and I am a convert. Prior to dating me, he was in a long-term sexual relationship of 5+ years with his ex-fianceé. I basically told him straight-up from the beginning that pre-marital sex isn’t for me. He said it was okay although he’s tested the waters a couple of times since, I’ve stood firm in my convictions - it’s not going to happen, pure and simple.

Being chaste in dating is hugely important to me, but he talks of the need to keep the passion alive without sex and wants us to find a good “compromise”. He wants us to engage in french kissing and said it would be so nice to wake up next to me in his bed! I said that I don’t believe in that, he says “some people’s faith is deeper than others”.

As far as I’m concerned, dating - or courting, if you will - should be as simple and innocent as possible. A quick kiss on the lips (not french kissing!) and a hug (not in a bed!) snd maybe some hand-holding and a lot of chatting and spending time together… is this a wrong view of Catholic dating?

Usually I’m so good with knowing what’s right and what’s not right for me, and I keep thinking that I should end it with him, but at the same time, I think what if this is the person God wants me to marry and I kick him to the curb like that. I’m totally irrational about the whole thing and would appreciate any non-bias (name removed by moderator)ut - the more honest, the better!
Click to expand...
You might have a look at this thread.

Boyfriend pressuring me for sex before marriage
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=699985
 
Laktian said:
… and we’ve been dating for a few months. We’re both Catholic - he is a cultural Catholic and I am a convert. Prior to dating me, he was in a long-term sexual relationship of 5+ years with his ex-fianceé. I basically told him straight-up from the beginning that pre-marital sex isn’t for me. He said it was okay although he’s tested the waters a couple of times since, I’ve stood firm in my convictions - it’s not going to happen, pure and simple.

Being chaste in dating is hugely important to me, but he talks of the need to keep the passion alive without sex and wants us to find a good “compromise”. He wants us to engage in french kissing and said it would be so nice to wake up next to me in his bed! I said that I don’t believe in that, he says “some people’s faith is deeper than others”.

As far as I’m concerned, dating - or courting, if you will - should be as simple and innocent as possible. A quick kiss on the lips (not french kissing!) and a hug (not in a bed!) snd maybe some hand-holding and a lot of chatting and spending time together… is this a wrong view of Catholic dating?

Usually I’m so good with knowing what’s right and what’s not right for me, and I keep thinking that I should end it with him, but at the same time, I think what if this is the person God wants me to marry and I kick him to the curb like that. I’m totally irrational about the whole thing and would appreciate any non-bias (name removed by moderator)ut - the more honest, the better!
Click to expand...
Dump him. There are a lot of Catholic men doing things God’s way that are having a difficult time finding a good Catholic spouse, and one of them could be the answer to your prayers, and you could be the answer to his.
 
chevalier said:
It’s a good thing what you did.
Be careful with that. We humans make up ideology to back up things we want. It’s easy to think that God wants us to do something that we want to do as it makes us feel more legitimate about it.
Click to expand...
👍
 
Laktian said:
I basically told him straight-up from the beginning that pre-marital sex isn’t for me. He said it was okay although he’s tested the waters a couple of times since, I’ve stood firm in my convictions - it’s not going to happen, pure and simple.
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Perhaps I am reading this wrong, but are you saying he has fornicated with others while dating you?
 
You’ve been dating a few months and he wants to have sex and wake up next to you?

He has an ex- fiancee… why was his previous engagement broken? Did they have a wedding date or was it a long, indefinite engagement?

People can and do change, and that’s great, but don’t risk your morals and purity in hopes of him changing.
 
St. Paul says fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. 1 Cor 6:9 – and he was speaking to believers! Not even being OSASTIDMWID will get you off the hook!

So has this guy repented of fornication?

If he’s a cultural Catholic, why would he? The mainstream culture is sex obsessed and he is conforming to it.

If he does this now…what happens when you’re married?
The plain vanilla sex gets boring fast and he wants you to do strange things or involve more people or do amateur porn or he likes the excitement of adultery.

Do you think his unhealed woundedness in this area will stop with the pre-marital phase?

Whatever you decide from here on out is a volunteer tour of duty.

My mom gave me sage advice many years ago that has served me well: don’t marry the first man that comes along that you think you can live with. Marry the one man you can’t live without.

Is this guy him?
 
BTW the acronym I mentioned stands for Once Saved Always Saved Therefore It Doesn’t Matter What I Do.

I also find it revealing that you call him a guy rather than a man.
 
This guy strikes me as being very manipulative. If he’s tested the waters a few times, then he’s done this before and is probably an expert at getting women into bed with him. He’ll be patient for awhile, but if you stand firm in your convictions long enough he’ll start to get angry at being blocked. Either that, or he may move on to more accommodating waters.

It also seems like there’s a division between your belief systems. I’m guessing you’re fairly orthodox and he’s a cultural Catholic. How would that work in a long-term relationship or a marriage? My gut instinct agrees with Norseman82. Dump him. You deserve better.
 
Laktian said:
… and we’ve been dating for a few months. We’re both Catholic - he is a cultural Catholic and I am a convert. Prior to dating me, he was in a long-term sexual relationship of 5+ years with his ex-fianceé. I basically told him straight-up from the beginning that pre-marital sex isn’t for me. He said it was okay although he’s tested the waters a couple of times since, I’ve stood firm in my convictions - it’s not going to happen, pure and simple.

Being chaste in dating is hugely important to me, but he talks of the need to keep the passion alive without sex and wants us to find a good “compromise”. He wants us to engage in french kissing and said it would be so nice to wake up next to me in his bed! I said that I don’t believe in that, he says “some people’s faith is deeper than others”.

As far as I’m concerned, dating - or courting, if you will - should be as simple and innocent as possible. A quick kiss on the lips (not french kissing!) and a hug (not in a bed!) snd maybe some hand-holding and a lot of chatting and spending time together… is this a wrong view of Catholic dating?

Usually I’m so good with knowing what’s right and what’s not right for me, and I keep thinking that I should end it with him, but at the same time, I think what if this is the person God wants me to marry and I kick him to the curb like that. I’m totally irrational about the whole thing and would appreciate any non-bias (name removed by moderator)ut - the more honest, the better!
Click to expand...
I sorry if this will sound tough but you deserve better than some guy with an immoral 5 year history. You need to break it off and move on and don’t be fooled. You will just get heart break later, STD etc etc. Find someone that has the same standards and commitment as you and stop wasting your time one him.
 
My opinion may not be the popular one, but presuming this guy is good for you in other areas of your relationship, I don’t think you should dump him over these comments. Males are always pushing the limits and saying things like “I want to wake up next to you.” I would just say, “Yeah, that would be really nice some day.” The holders of the Y chromosome are suffering from constant hormonal surges in addition to the pressures of our over-sexed secular society, so things like that do tend to come flying out of their mouths. Later, it becomes something more like, “Well it’s only been two days. Do you think you’re THAT fertile?” Often, they just need gentle reminders and occasional clarification. If this guy is devoted to you, despite your explicit beliefs regarding pre-marital sexuality, then he could possibly be a keeper. (After all, there are lots of girls out there who will give it up to any guy, often to the extent that they lost all manner of self-respect years ago.)

That being said, I think you are right on in your convictions to avoid any “compromises” at this time. Aside from the moral and religious implications of engaging in “compromises”, such behavior will land you in a biological difficulty known as oxytocin. This is the chemical that women produce when they are becoming intimately bonded to a man. It’s the same stuff that causes lactation and maternal bonding as well. This chemical is a beautiful part of God’s plan because it allows a wife to look past all the surface flaws in her husband and see him for the Child of God that he is instead of deeply flawed individual her mother sees. It causes a woman to trust the man, want to start nesting, and even times her ovulation.

Oxytocin production is triggered by intimate physical contact with a man such as intense kissing, cuddling, genital contact, as well as intercourse. Once that stuff starts flowing, love is blind and you start seeing your future children dancing in his eyes. It makes it very difficult to say ‘no’, because not only do you have to deal with the man’s constant hormones, but you now are overcome with an insatiable desire to engage in sexual relation as well as to pick out wallpaper. You are in Happy-Ever-After-Land and you become blind to some of the signals one might otherwise notice during courtship that suggest that they guy might not be for you. (or anywone for that matter)

Assuming you are lucky and this is a great guy and you will get married and live happily ever after, this is still a problem because it makes remaining chaste much harder. However, it becomes a major problem if this is not the guy for you, because not only do you risk going too far, but breaking up with him will literally cause you a chemical nightmare. Because the oxytocin chemically bound you to a certain guy, it is much harder for women to break that physiological bond than men, as evidenced by all the crazy ex’s out there. What is worse, is that there is evidence that suggests that it makes it harder for a woman to bond later on, when Mr. Right does come along. The more times she has gone through this, the harder it becomes to bond. So, I think you are absolutely right to avoid intense physical contact with your fellow until you are at least dicerning marriage and possibly later.
 
Allegra said:
My opinion may not be the popular one, but presuming this guy is good for you in other areas of your relationship, I don’t think you should dump him over these comments. Males are always pushing the limits and saying things like “I want to wake up next to you.” I would just say, “Yeah, that would be really nice some day.” The holders of the Y chromosome are suffering from constant hormonal surges in addition to the pressures of our over-sexed secular society, so things like that do tend to come flying out of their mouths. Later, it becomes something more like, “Well it’s only been two days. Do you think you’re THAT fertile?” Often, they just need gentle reminders and occasional clarification. If this guy is devoted to you, despite your explicit beliefs regarding pre-marital sexuality, then he could possibly be a keeper. (After all, there are lots of girls out there who will give it up to any guy, often to the extent that they lost all manner of self-respect years ago.)

That being said, I think you are right on in your convictions to avoid any “compromises” at this time. Aside from the moral and religious implications of engaging in “compromises”, such behavior will land you in a biological difficulty known as oxytocin. This is the chemical that women produce when they are becoming intimately bonded to a man. It’s the same stuff that causes lactation and maternal bonding as well. This chemical is a beautiful part of God’s plan because it allows a wife to look past all the surface flaws in her husband and see him for the Child of God that he is instead of deeply flawed individual her mother sees. It causes a woman to trust the man, want to start nesting, and even times her ovulation.

Oxytocin production is triggered by intimate physical contact with a man such as intense kissing, cuddling, genital contact, as well as intercourse. Once that stuff starts flowing, love is blind and you start seeing your future children dancing in his eyes. It makes it very difficult to say ‘no’, because not only do you have to deal with the man’s constant hormones, but you now are overcome with an insatiable desire to engage in sexual relation as well as to pick out wallpaper. You are in Happy-Ever-After-Land and you become blind to some of the signals one might otherwise notice during courtship that suggest that they guy might not be for you. (or anywone for that matter)

Assuming you are lucky and this is a great guy and you will get married and live happily ever after, this is still a problem because it makes remaining chaste much harder. However, it becomes a major problem if this is not the guy for you, because not only do you risk going too far, but breaking up with him will literally cause you a chemical nightmare. Because the oxytocin chemically bound you to a certain guy, it is much harder for women to break that physiological bond than men, as evidenced by all the crazy ex’s out there. What is worse, is that there is evidence that suggests that it makes it harder for a woman to bond later on, when Mr. Right does come along. The more times she has gone through this, the harder it becomes to bond. So, I think you are absolutely right to avoid intense physical contact with your fellow until you are at least dicerning marriage and possibly later.
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I have to respectfully disagree with your advice. faithfulness in marriage is more often proven BEFORE marriage. someone that had a 5 year affair with someone else is not good marriage material no matter how good they may get along in other areas. It doesn’t sound like he is someone who has truely repented of his actions in the past and is pressuring op into sex. You are much younger than me and not married yet. I have been married 26 years and my perspecitve come from life and seeing what happen in others lives who enter into marriage thinking that some unfaithful person will change once married.
Premarital sex (and many studies have proven this) often sets up a marriage for failure.
When we don’t follow God’s plan, we end up in a disaster. Op is trying but she is dating someone who doesn’t care. that is a recipe for heartbreak and failure. Many women get caught up in thinking that they will change the guy or that once they are married, he will settle down and be faithful. This is not true. Op deserves someone better than this stud.
 
I think it is concerning that not only is he pushing you to compromise on your beliefs, he is doing it so soon.

Also kind of wondering why he was dating/intimate with someone for 5 years – and didn’t marry her.

It’s not JUST that he wants to push the boundaries too far. His behavior, the little you have outlined, suggests he is more interested in sex than marriage. Seriously, what are his real goals? If he wants a wife, (and family) he will respect you and wait. If he wants what he sees as some of the “perks” of marriage without the responsibility of a wife and family, I’d take that as a definite sign this is not the one, and move along.
 
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