..so what exactly is "bad company"?

[Ben_Sinner]

…other than a band from the 70’s…but seriously…I’ve been told it’s a sin to hang out with bad company, but my problem is just about every person I know could fall into the category of “bad company”. My friends, my roomates, my co-workers…even my parents are bad company because they don’t like my catholic lifestyle. Technically I’m bad company because I’m a sinner. So what’s the situation here?

 

[Rascalking]

…other than a band from the 70’s…

Drat! You stole my witty answer.

I think bad company is company that leads you to sin-people who tempt you to do things that you wouldn’t normally do.

I’m not talking about sin like swearing or not approving of your religion. I have atheist friends who I love dearly. You want to make sure that thinking someone is “bad company” doesn’t lead you into holier than thou attitudes. Your just as much a sinner as they are. (It’s not personal, we’re all sinners)

 

[bnbkaine]

If the group you are hanging out with is leading you to sin, or the near occasion of sin, then maybe you look elsewhere for companionship. It is a highly individualized thing though. If we couldn’t hang out with sinners, then we would all be alone.

 

[Colmcille]

Great thread! Keep it going!
AMDG

 

[Ben_Sinner]

another thing…1 Cor 5:11 has been bothering me lately.

“But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.”

is Paul referring to lukewarm catholics/protestants or is he talking about people who take the faith seriously but yet still commit these sins? It’s almost impossible to not be in the presence and association of lukewarm catholics

 

[Rascalking]

another thing…1 Cor 5:11 has been bothering me lately.

“But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.”

is Paul referring to lukewarm catholics/protestants or is he talking about people who take the faith seriously but yet still commit these sins? It’s almost impossible to not be in the presence and association of lukewarm catholics

Remember to take the bible as a whole-not a quote here or there out of context. St. Paul was a genius, and yes, everything he says is very important and meaningful-but Christ sat down with sinners-and that SORT OF contradicts what St. Paul says here.

Yeah, some Christians are lukewarm-and your alternative to hanging out with them is to be a self-righteous jerk who feels good about himself but is terribly lonely and unliked by everyone else. That kind of behavior is not going to win converts, and it’s destructive to you in the long run.

 

[Ben_Sinner]

Remember to take the bible as a whole-not a quote here or there out of context. St. Paul was a genius, and yes, everything he says is very important and meaningful-but Christ sat down with sinners-and that SORT OF contradicts what St. Paul says here.

Yeah, some Christians are lukewarm-and your alternative to hanging out with them is to be a self-righteous jerk who feels good about himself but is terribly lonely and unliked by everyone else. That kind of behavior is not going to win converts, and it’s destructive to you in the long run.

well I certainly don’t want to be a friendless self-righteous jerk, but I don’t want to offend God either. I’m just trying to find out where the line is because I’d say about 99% of the people I associate with could be considered bad company.

 

[cmscms]

Unfortunately certain sins are more socially acceptable than others. If a person commits murder everyone (regardless of religious convictions) would understand my not wanting to eat at his table. Yet, if I refused to eat at the same table as a homosexual than a lot of people would call me judgemental.

This is probably not in the bible but this is how I see it.

Person A 99% of the time does the right thing. So when he sins, he says to himself ‘I only sin 1% of the time so why bother going to confession’

Person B sins 99% of the time. And he spends the other 1% of his time praying ‘God help me, please help me mend my ways’

I think person A is the one we shouldn’t eat with and person B is the one we should. It is all in the attitude

CM

 

[Ben_Sinner]

Unfortunately certain sins are more socially acceptable than others. If a person commits murder everyone (regardless of religious convictions) would understand my not wanting to eat at his table. Yet, if I refused to eat at the same table as a homosexual than a lot of people would call me judgemental.

This is probably not in the bible but this is how I see it.

Person A 99% of the time does the right thing. So when he sins, he says to himself ‘I only sin 1% of the time so why bother going to confession’

Person B sins 99% of the time. And he spends the other 1% of his time praying ‘God help me, please help me mend my ways’

I think person A is the one we shouldn’t eat with and person B is the one we should. It is all in the attitude

CM

That is in the bible somewhat…Jesus said “I came for the sinners, not for the ones who think they are righteous” (paraphrasing)

 

[Ben_Sinner]

to add more to this subject I’m going to give a little testimony of mine…now I’m trying not to boast about myself. If I am, pray for me because pride and vanity are 2 sins that I have trouble fighting with, you’ll know why this is so in the testimony…

…It was about only 4 months ago I was your average wild-partier-college student. I participated in wild parties, dirty danced in bars, used foul language, listened to bad music, dressed immodestly, worked out to show off my muscles and size other guys up, made “getting girls” as a sport, got in fights, etc…God blessed me with many gifts and I used them the wrong way. I’ll try not to boast. I’m handsome, I’m good at sports, I’m a smooth talker, I’m intellegent, people respect me, I have a great sense of humor, I’m usually the best dancer in the room at a party, I have a very approachable personality and people adore me and I’ve become quite popular (forgive me for boasting. these gifts are also curses for me because I struggle with pride and vanity over these gifts)…now thank God, he bailed me out (like he always does) of this lifestyle that would damn me. My conversion seemed like it was overnight. I’ve gained alot of worldly friends over these days and have gotten close to some of them. I still hang out with them alot. They haven’t said anything to me but I think they’ve noticed a big change in me in such a short period of time. I want my life to be their evangelization…how a bad sinner like me could be converted in such a short period of time (now I’m not saying I’m a saint or anything, I’m just saying I’ve improved alot from my old self)…I want to use my attractive personality to help people now instead of building up my ego. I want to show them that you can have fun without sinning, and I try to focus on their good features and try to blossom those out on them and hopefully they’ll get rid of their bad features. I try to be the “rock” of the group that is always there for them if they need help because I can relate to their problems. So I feel like if I abandon them, they are not going to change or even get worse because they don’t have “one of their own” as a devout christian to lead them.

 

[Colmcille]

Unfortunately certain sins are more socially acceptable than others. If a person commits murder everyone (regardless of religious convictions) would understand my not wanting to eat at his table. Yet, if I refused to eat at the same table as a homosexual than a lot of people would call me judgemental.

This is probably not in the bible but this is how I see it.

Person A 99% of the time does the right thing. So when he sins, he says to himself ‘I only sin 1% of the time so why bother going to confession’

Person B sins 99% of the time. And he spends the other 1% of his time praying ‘God help me, please help me mend my ways’

I think person A is the one we shouldn’t eat with and person B is the one we should. It is all in the attitude

CM

WWJD? ALL are welcome… A sister said she would never work with women again. The ones she worked with gossipped a lot and she segregated herself from the group, reading a book instead of eating and listening to their gossip. She says she wasn’t seen as a “team player” and was fired, though an excellent, caring, and otherwise good worker in an elder care facility. You be the judge… Choices have consequences. If you make your life around avoiding consequences for actions, you are not standing where you’re supposed to on important issues.

 

[Rascalking]

It doesnt’ have to be a zero sum game where your either ignore the world or hang out with porno stars. Remember that.

 

[cmscms]

WWJD? ALL are welcome… A sister said she would never work with women again. The ones she worked with gossipped a lot and she segregated herself from the group, reading a book instead of eating and listening to their gossip. She says she wasn’t seen as a “team player” and was fired, though an excellent, caring, and otherwise good worker in an elder care facility. You be the judge… Choices have consequences. If you make your life around avoiding consequences for actions, you are not standing where you’re supposed to on important issues.

Hi Colmcille

What does WWJD mean?

With all due respect, I have no idea what the point is of your post. Since you quoted mine, I am assuming you are responding to something I said. But again, I have NO idea what you are trying to tell me

CM

 

[cmscms]

Hey Ben,

First I would like to say, if you only converted 4 months ago you are still new and it may be premature for you to convert others. Wait a while for there to be struggles in your life and when God helps you through thoses, you will be more equipped to help others

As for the pride thing. I am sure it must have took a lot of courage to admit to it. However, I don’t think you fully realize where your pride is wrong. When you were describing how popular you were, it didn’t seem prideful at all to me. It seemed more like honesty to get us to understand where you were coming from (some may disagree with me)

However, here is where I REALLY think you need to look at your pride and do something about it. You want to be the guy to convert everyone. WRONG ! God will chose who He uses to convert people. Pray to God for guidance in how to act. And God alone will tell you when you should try to convert someone. Submit to His will not your agenda.

Also, if you think ‘it takes a reformed partier to convert people’ you are still holding on to the belief ‘Partying is cool and better than Catholicism’ (sp?). Catholics can have a LOT of fun. Perhaps not in the way a secular partier would think of but Catholics still enjoy it. The closer you become to God, the more embarraased you will be about your old partying attitudes. The real convert is the one no one would EVER suspect was a wild partier once upon a time. That is a good thing to strive for.

CM

 

[GaryTaylor]

Ben,

Your surrounded by the enemy. If you continue to wander around in the Jungle alone, sooner or later you’ll become part of the food chain.

You have to get some winners around you. They don’t have to be bible thumpers. But they have to be honest, decent living Catholics with the intention of making it to heaven.

Start making small changes with those who are around you. You either get with those who are practicing living or with those practicing dying? Really not much alternative to it. Thing is to many non believers have this preconceived notion what Good is. Similar charcteristics but all of us are still individuals. There are decent people you can share common bonds with out here and enjoy yourself greatly. Thats what I’m saying.

Yet in your heart if the issues of those who surround you, are still issues of yours? Then you also have to take an honest look at that. Listen man,. the need to change is ALWAYS there. The only thing needed is desire! Then get with making it happen. Much Prayer will deliever you, without a doubt Marys the key.

GT

 

[Ben_Sinner]

I know I’m a baby catholic and I agree that I probably am going too fast into the evangelization game. What I meant to say was that I don’t plan on becoming a preacher on EWTN or anything, I’m just saying that I might be able to provide a positive influence on those guys.

I know I need to surround myself with better company, but the problem is…I can’t find any good company. All my company are either lukewarm, atheist, agnostic, muslim, or devout protestants. I have yet to come across a devout catholic where I’m from who follows ALL the church teachings, with the exception of a priest or 2 but they are old and don’t go out or anything haha. This is why I have to ask around on this forum. Until God gives me devout catholic friends, I’ll have to make due with what I got.

 

[Moscati]

I’ve always interpreted the warnings against “bad company” to mean that one should be careful who one trusts and listens to–who is part of your “inner circle”, so to speak. Jesus ate and drank with sinners, but he also surrounded himself with disciples. We need both, too!

 

[joe_cool]

…other than a band from the 70’s…but seriously…I’ve been told it’s a sin to hang out with bad company, but my problem is just about every person I know could fall into the category of “bad company”. My friends, my roomates, my co-workers…even my parents are bad company because they don’t like my catholic lifestyle. Technically I’m bad company because I’m a sinner. So what’s the situation here?

It’s much easier than this.

I run with a bunch of real hard-core biker dudes. They’ve been good friends of mine for a number of years, and continue to be. They were more supportive of my conversion than many people - to this day, if I go over to hang out, I’ll have a few beers, but they count them because they know I can’t get drunk. They cut me off at three beers, and only let me drink light beer and “none of that high-test stuff”. They’re alright guys. They know I don’t curse… and while I don’t look down on THEIR drinking and cursing… it’s actually kind of funny how they clean up their language around me a little bit. We have a mutual understanding, and a respect for each other as human beings… so our friendship works.

So does a person’s status as a sinner make them “bad company”? No. I’d certainly hope not - we’re ALL sinners, like it or not…

So maybe we can look to Christ for a role model… see St. Matthew’s past life and conversion for example… He (Christ) certainly associated with all manner of sinners…

Bad company is something else. A person’s behavior is their own, and their decisions their own. What crosses the line is when associating with said person, for whatever reason, puts your soul in jeopardy by engaging in behavior that tempts you to violate your beliefs. If a person, by their presence, action, or intention, causes you occasion to entertain the notion of sin or engages in intentionally vicious ridicule or harassment of your beliefs… they are, in fact, bad company.

It’s this delineation that made the bikers acceptable to hang out with… but still managed to thin out the list of people that I will associate with.

 

[cmscms]

The best way to provide a positive influence on those guys is when they start acting immoral walk away. For all you know, once some of them see your courage they will feel relieved and leave with you.

Also, in a way you are acting out the poor parenting skills of my mother. When I would misbehave she would say ‘CM stop or I will send you to your room’. I wouldn’t stop and she never sent me to my room. I learnt my mother’s threats were just words without consequences so I would not stop my behaviour. It is many against one and you can not single handedly change them all (to think so is the sin of pride popping up again)

As for ‘I will hang out with these guys until some good Catholics come my way’. The chances of that happening are very slim. The good catholics think birds of a feather flock together and they will think you are just like your friends. Not to mention, I want good catholic friends. If you approached me in friendship and told me ‘Now that I have this good catholic friend I can dump all the partiers’. My first though would be ‘This guy is not loyal, when will he dump me’. You have to be a good catholic before you can be friends with good catholics.

Ben, I know I am coming don hard on you. To be honest, you strike me as the kind of guy who actually enjoys this kind of debate (which is part of the reason I am doing it). But also, I sense a genuine desire to change your ways and be closer to God. I think you need to know the hard facts. My fear is, by half committing to to God, it won’t work and you will go back to your old ways discouraged and be turned off God

As for finding other Catholics. There is such a thing as a good person, who is not an immoral partyer and not Catholic. You can take baby steps and start doing activities that are more respectable than drinking in a bar. For example, you could volunteer for a good cause. Although not a catholic centered activity, it is a godly thing to do.

CM

 

[TheQuestioner]

another thing…1 Cor 5:11 has been bothering me lately.

“But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.”

is Paul referring to lukewarm catholics/protestants or is he talking about people who take the faith seriously but yet still commit these sins? It’s almost impossible to not be in the presence and association of lukewarm catholics

Sounds like Paul is talking about excommunication, which is determined by the Church itself, and those who are excommunicated are those who lead mass amounts of Catholics away from the faith (so judging from your situation, I don’t think you have to worry about this). Bring your friends to Christ, but try not to lose your soul in the process. If you are starting to, and it is simply associated with them (and how much loss is enough is up to you) then get out. Other than that you don’t have much to worry about.