So what is the difference between a potential and an actual human being?

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Abrosz

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Since the attempt to a conduct a respectful discussion about abortion was unsuccessful, let’s try it again. It was unsuccessful since this question was left unanswered.

What is the definition of a human being? At which point of the development would qualify the entity to be called a new human being? Or when does the potential human being become an actual human being?

The stages are: DNA, cell, stem cell, zygote, blastocyst, tissue, organ, embryo, fetus, newborn.

To help you, here comes an analogy: “let’s take a large piece of marble. The sculptor starts to work on it. When does the potential statue become an actual statue?”
 
Abrosz said:
To help you, here comes an analogy: “let’s take a large piece of marble. The sculptor starts to work on it. When does the potential statue become an actual statue?”
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This example isn’t the same. The shape marble has is accidental to what it actually is: marble. An unworked chunk of marble and a statue are the same kind of thing.

As for a human being, once you have an organism, there isn’t a difference in kind between a blastocyst and a fifty year old man. They’re just different stages of development of the same organism, and the kind of organism is a human being. While made of many parts, as an organism or unity it is one thing throughout its lifetime.
 
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Since the process of human development never actually stops from conception until death, then the logical conclusion is that there is no such thing as a “potential” human being. There are just human beings. Any distinction that you would attempt to draw to try to break up that spectrum of development in order to defend the practice of abortion would be arbitrary, and could be arbitrarily redefined for any stage of human development. So for example, humans are not fully developed cognitively speaking until the mid-to-late 20’s or 30’s, and at some point cognitive decline begins to set in. Does that mean that you can kill a three year old because they are not fully developed? Does that mean you can kill someone in their 60’s because they are beginning to have declines in short term memory recall? Of course not. This is why scientifically we define human beings as human beings at conception, and why ethically we should not define it any differently for the purpose of the convenience of a third party.
 
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Abrosz said:
The stages are: DNA, cell, stem cell, zygote, blastocyst, tissue, organ, embryo, fetus, newborn.
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You forgot a few stages…conception, ensoulment, DNA, cell, stem cell, zygote, blastocyst, tissue, organ, embryo, response to external stimuli, fully formed fingers and toes, ability to smile, fetus, newborn, baptism, confirmation, 1st day at school, bar mitzvah, 16th birthday, 18th birthday, 21st birthday, ability to vote, ability to avoid appearing on this list;

 
A new and unique individual of the human species begins when a male sperm cell and a female ovum unite to form a genetically distinct new individual. It is how each of us began. From conception forward it’s just a matter of development, and the development is directed by the new human being.
 
Lion_IRC said:
You forgot a few stages…conception, ensoulment, DNA, cell, stem cell, zygote, blastocyst, tissue, organ, embryo, response to external stimuli, fully formed fingers and toes, ability to smile, fetus, newborn, baptism, confirmation, 1st day at school, bar mitzvah, 16th birthday, 18th birthday, 21st birthday, ability to vote, ability to avoid appearing on this list;
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I understand what you are saying here but I had a little giggle when you listed baptism and Bar Mitzvot. :hugs::hugs::hugs:
 
I suppose the closest thing to a potential human being would be a mature egg cell, which, if fertilized, would become an actual human being.

But I don’t see that in any way similar to a hunk of marble being a potential statue. A hunk of marble could be made into any number of things, a human egg cell either gets fertilized, at which point it’s a human, or it doesn’t. As soon as it’s fertilized it’s a human.

As far as the marble, when the artist declares it a statue, it’s a statue. That’s subjective rather than objective.
 
Abrosz said:
Since the attempt to a conduct a respectful discussion about abortion was unsuccessful, let’s try it again. It was unsuccessful since this question was left unanswered.

What is the definition of a human being? At which point of the development would qualify the entity to be called a new human being? Or when does the potential human being become an actual human being?

The stages are: DNA, cell, stem cell, zygote, blastocyst, tissue, organ, embryo, fetus, newborn.

To help you, here comes an analogy: “let’s take a large piece of marble. The sculptor starts to work on it. When does the potential statue become an actual statue?”
Click to expand...
That’s an excellent analogy. There is no single point. And the statue has more ‘value’ to the sculptor as the work progresses.

If you broke into Michelangelo’s workshop and destroyed the marble after he’d worked a day on it then he’d be none too impressed. But if you took a hammer to the completed David and destroyed it then he would feel a greater sense of loss.

If there was some circumstance when someone said that if you take the nine months to finish the statue then there will be a considerable negative personal outcome - but you’d have the statue at least, then at what point does he say ‘OK, Iets forget this one’.

Quite possibly a few weeks into the work. But almost certainly not a few months. Notwithstanding that at the back of his mind is the knowledge that when his personal predicament ends, he can make another.

That’s the thought process a lot of women go through when deciding to have an abortion. There’s no specific date when anyone says ‘that’s the cut off day’.
 
Simple.

A potential human being: a couple is entertaining the thought of coitus for the purpose of having a child.

An actual human being: the couple had coitus, and a human being has been conceived.
 
So you are saying that an unborn human is the equivalent of a hunk of rock?
 
Annie said:
So you are saying that an unborn human is the equivalent of a hunk of rock?
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And only 7 minutes before that was brought up. I thought it would have been less than an hour, but 7 minutes is faster than I thought.

What do you really think, Annie? Do you want to join in the conversation or score some cheap debating points?
 
Because that is the crux of the issue. To abandon a half-carved statue is a very different thing from having an abortion. What ever one person or another “thinks” does not change the truth.
 
Abrosz said:
What is the definition of a human being? At which point of the development would qualify the entity to be called a new human being? Or when does the potential human being become an actual human being?

The stages are: DNA, cell, stem cell, zygote, blastocyst, tissue, organ, embryo, fetus, newborn.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing the intriguing question, I really like how worded it!

Would you please share your current responses to the same questions?

I would say:
A human being is an organism of the homo sapien species.
A new human being occurs the moment a sperm fertilizes an egg or when a zygote generates identical siblings.
 
Annie said:
Because that is the crux of the issue. To abandon a half-carved statue is a very different thing from having an abortion.
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Thanks for pointing out that an analogy is not meant to be taken as an equivalent event. Some may have not understood that.

And yes, just because some people think it’s right or wrong doesn’t make them correct.
 
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Freddy said:
Thanks for pointing out that an analogy is not meant to be taken as an equivalent event. Some may have not understood that.
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An analogy needs to have some equivalence to work. In this context, your analogy lacks that equivalence.
 
I think the inflection point your looking to is where is there a soul present? A body without a soul isn’t much, that person is deceased. For Catholics this is at the moment of conception, we believe a soul is present at that point.
 
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