So what's the Catholic position on what Roeder did?

[distracted]

Well, you’re right about that. That command was given to Noah and his family - the whole human race. The Noahic covenant is part of the universal law of God, as opposed to the Mosaic covenant, and is part of the New Covenant (CCC 58). But it can’t contradict obedience to government, “which God has established”.

so the Germans shouldn’t have interfered w/ the Nazi governemnt??

 

[distracted]

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to say that one should never use any kind of “violence” to end injustice (worse violence) is to say that we should not have invaded Normandy in the 2nd WW… We should not have intervened in Iraq… or Viet Nam…

not all violence is to be avoided if it is the only way to stop worse violence…

 

[Luke65]

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to say that one should never use any kind of “violence” to end injustice (worse violence) is to say that we should not have invaded Normandy in the 2nd WW… We should not have intervened in Iraq… or Viet Nam…

not all violence is to be avoided if it is the only way to stop worse violence…

I already answered these objections. The Church has already answered them. Did you read the Catechism? One example:

2243 Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.

 

[distracted]

I already answered these objections. The Church has already answered them. Did you read the Catechism? One example:

2243 Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.

i rest my case…

thank you…

 

[distracted]

isn’t anyone going to try to argue with me anymore… ??

then again, how can you argue w/ objective truth?

but then again AGAIN… since when did that stop anyone… ?.

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***In the Bible (Proverbs, i think) it says that God hates 7 things…

one of them is the shedding of innocent blood…***

 

[distracted]

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***About Tiller’s murder, Ann Coulter announced (to Bill Reilly):

“I don’t really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester.”***

 

[distracted]

.***Ann Coulter:

“I am personally opposed to shooting abortionists, but I don’t want to impose my moral values on others.”***

 

[distracted]

nobody has an answer…

gee… wonder why?

I win…

 

[Godfollower]

nobody has an answer…

gee… wonder why?

I win…

No, we’ve given you the answer repeatedly; you simply persist in arguing that Tiller’s murder was justified, despite all evidence to the contrary.

As I live, saith the Lord God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way, and live.

Ezechiel 33:11.

Roeder violated this command of the Lord. As a result, Tiller lost any chance at repenting of his ways.

The ONLY justification you have given for what Roeder did was your belief that Tiller was going to continue committing abortions and had not repented (or, rather, would not have repented) of his ways. If you’re right, Roeder prevented him from repenting, and Tiller presumably is going to end up in Hell. If you’re wrong, Roeder killed a man with no justification. Either a soul was lost or a human life was lost.

And you – who profess to be a Christian – celebrate this. Unbelievable.

 

[distracted]

No, we’ve given you the answer repeatedly; you simply persist in arguing that Tiller’s murder was justified, despite all evidence to the contrary.

you’ll find out how God sees things when you meet him… I hope you are ready when that happens…

Ezechiel 33:11.

Roeder violated this command of the Lord. As a result, Tiller lost any chance at repenting of his ways.

right… God didn’t give Tiller any chance to repent… 67 years and God just ignored Tiller… gotcha…

The ONLY justification you have given for what Roeder did was your belief that Tiller was going to continue committing abortions and had not repented (or, rather, would not have repented) of his ways. If you’re right, Roeder prevented him from repenting, and Tiller presumably is going to end up in Hell. If you’re wrong, Roeder killed a man with no justification. Either a soul was lost or a human life was lost.

all this is irrelevent…

**What is relevent is that babies have a right to live, are created in God’s image and therefore society owes them protection against murderers… **

 

[Godfollower]

Godfollower;5503776:

No, we’ve given you the answer repeatedly; you simply persist in arguing that Tiller’s murder was justified, despite all evidence to the contrary.\QUOTE]

you’ll find out how God sees things when you meet him… I hope you are ready when that happens…
Godfollower;5503776:

Ezechiel 33:11.

Roeder violated this command of the Lord. As a result, Tiller lost any chance at repenting of his ways.

right… God didn’t give Tiller any chance to repent… 67 years and God just ignored Tiller… gotcha…

The ONLY justification you have given for what Roeder did was your belief that Tiller was going to continue committing abortions and had not repented (or, rather, would not have repented) of his ways. If you’re right, Roeder prevented him from repenting, and Tiller presumably is going to end up in Hell. If you’re wrong, Roeder killed a man with no justification. Either a soul was lost or a human life was lost.

all this is irrelevent…

**What is relevent is that babies have a right to live, are created in God’s image and therefore society owes them protection against murderers… **

No, what’s relevant is your obstinate denial of the truth set forth by God through Holy Mother Church: murder is immoral, and Roeder’s murder of Tiller (assuming that the facts are as they appear to be) was a mortal sin.

Plus, of course, the ongoing scandal (in the technical sense) of advocating murder and purporting to justify it in the name of God.

You’ve been shown the quotes from the Church on this issue condemning the murder. You’ve been shown the quotes from Scripture stating that this murder was wrong (really, how much more plain can it get than the Ezechiel quotation you so willfully ignore?). You’ve been shown the teaching of the Catechism. You’ve been shown the theological requirement for both self-defense and defense-of-others that no other option be available before resorting to deadly force, and you know full well that Roeder had other options short of murdering Tiller to prevent Tiller from committing more abortions the next week.

To repeat, in case you missed it the first time:

As I live, saith the Lord God, I desire not the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way, and live. ~ Ezechiel 33:11.

Roeder’s murder of Tiller was in direct defiance of God’s command – as is your ongoing support (advocacy, really) of Roeder’s sin.

Tiller was also created in God’s image. Now he can’t repent (“I desire . . . that the wicked turn from his way, and live”). And you’re gloating about it. What a way to represent Christianity.

 

[distracted]

No, what’s relevant is your obstinate denial of the truth set forth by God through Holy Mother Church: murder is immoral, and Roeder’s murder of Tiller (assuming that the facts are as they appear to be) was a mortal sin.

Plus, of course, the ongoing scandal (in the technical sense) of advocating murder and purporting to justify it in the name of God.

You’ve been shown the quotes from the Church on this issue condemning the murder. You’ve been shown the quotes from Scripture stating that this murder was wrong (really, how much more plain can it get than the Ezechiel quotation you so willfully ignore?). You’ve been shown the teaching of the Catechism. You’ve been shown the theological requirement for both self-defense and defense-of-others that no other option be available before resorting to deadly force, and you know full well that Roeder had other options short of murdering Tiller to prevent Tiller from committing more abortions the next week.

To repeat, in case you missed it the first time:

Roeder’s murder of Tiller was in direct defiance of God’s command – as is your ongoing support (advocacy, really) of Roeder’s sin.

Tiller was also created in God’s image. Now he can’t repent (“I desire . . . that the wicked turn from his way, and live”). And you’re gloating about it. What a way to represent Christianity.

God advocated capital punishment in the OT… and this nation uses it now…

God doesn’t change…

the Church advocates cap punishment when there is no other way to stop murderers…

i rest my case…

 

[Godfollower]

By the way, here are more actions of your hero that day. Keep in mind that the person testifying, Keith Martin, is just an usher who saw a man walk into the church, put a handgun to another usher’s forehead, and pull the trigger, killing the usher. He chased the gunman into the parking lot.

When Roeder jumped in his car, Martin was standing in front of the powder blue Ford Taurus, about two car lengths away.

“Move,” Martin said Roeder yelled.

Martin froze.

Roeder pulled out a handgun, and **Martin said he found himself staring down the barrel.

“I’ll shoot you,” Martin testified Roeder said**.

Martin moved.

And here’s what another parishioner said about that day (he was within touching distance of Tiller when Roedner shot him):

As Hoepner ran across the grass, he said, Roeder looked over his shoulder and yelled, "I’ve got a gun, and I’ll shoot you."

“I don’t argue with a man with a gun,” Hoepner said.

Available here.

 

[Godfollower]

God advocated capital punishment in the OT… and this nation uses it now…

God doesn’t change…

the Church advocates cap punishment when there is no other way to stop murderers…

i rest my case…

And THERE WERE OTHER WAYS TO STOP HIM!!!

 

[distracted]

By the way, here are more actions of your hero that day. Keep in mind that the person testifying, Keith Martin, is just an usher who saw a man walk into the church, put a handgun to another usher’s forehead, and pull the trigger, killing the usher. He chased the gunman into the parking lot.

And here’s what another parishioner said about that day (he was within touching distance of Tiller when Roedner shot him):

Available here.

so?

if i was facing life imprisonment for a crime that shouldn’t be a crime (because cap punishment is not a crime) i would be acting kind of self-defensive myself…

he was undoubtedly traumatized by wht he had done… first time he killed anyone, probably… unless he was in Viet nam… (?)…

doesn’t change my assessment:

Roeder is guilty of unauthorized capital punishment and should get Time Served…

 

[distracted]

And THERE WERE OTHER WAYS TO STOP HIM!!!

apparently not since he wasn’t stopped until Roeder…

 

[Godfollower]

so?

if i was facing life imprisonment for a crime that shouldn’t be a crime (because cap punishment is not a crime) i would be acting kind of self-defensive myself…

he was undoubtedly traumatized by wht he had done… first time he killed anyone, probably… unless he was in Viet nam… (?)…

doesn’t change my assessment:

Roeder is guilty of unauthorized capital punishment and should get Time Served…

There you go again, claiming without any support whatsoever that individuals are permitted to carry out capital punishment as prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner. Note that, according to the witnesses, Roeder didn’t even give Tiller a chance for a last prayer to God (or even to try to explain himself to Roeder). Your arguments are totally without any basis in Catholic theology.

 

[distracted]

There you go again, claiming without any support whatsoever that individuals are permitted to carry out capital punishment as prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner. Note that, according to the witnesses, Roeder didn’t even give Tiller a chance for a last prayer to God (or even to try to explain himself to Roeder). Your arguments are totally without any basis in Catholic theology.

well, opinions are like…

everyone has one…

you interpret things your way, i interpret them the right way…

 

[Godfollower]

Godfollower;5504192:

And THERE WERE OTHER WAYS TO STOP HIM!!!

apparently not since he wasn’t stopped until Roeder…

Where did you get that kind of logic? Let’s look at abortion with your reasoning:

“She didn’t have to kill her baby; there were other options available to her.”
“Apparently not since she wasn’t helped until she aborted. ”

You could at least have the decency to recognize that you’re advocating the death of a fellow human being and should not be joking around about it.

 

[Godfollower]

well, opinions are like…

everyone has one…

you interpret things your way, i interpret them the right way…

No. I state God’s law as explained by Holy Mother Church without exception over the centuries, and I back it up with citations to Scripture, the Catechism, and Catholic bishops. You advocate godless anarchy and murder, and you joke about it.

Then you claim to be Christian, thus helping the anti-Christians by giving them ammunition to use in suppressing Christians. “See? The Catholics advocate murder! We should restrict them and prevent them from advocating their positions!” (Cf. “Homeland Security on guard for ‘right-wing extremists’” on this thread).